Welcome to the very first lesson about learning basic Italian!
You'll need to do some reading to begin with, then you are invited to comment on the contents of the article and the texts and to discuss about them, in a polite way of course. The purpose of this first lesson is to introduce you to an overview of the Italian culture and of the potential use of Italian language in our modern world.
indeed, and not surprisingly, Italian and Latin are still very close; in particular there are some dialects that are still using basic Latin forms: i.e. the one we speak where I live, Rieti (the Reate of old, just few km north of Rome), uses some: we say "imo" for "let's go" or "we go" for instance, which is straight out of old Latin and many other similar forms especially with basic verbs (to be, to go, to eat, etc).
A couple of years ago I wrote an article for the Helios about the heritage of Romans, I think it could be a nice addition to this overview of the Italian language and on the relation with Latin. Article
@EKW; do you have any comment on what you have read in the article or the text? Something that surprised you maybe?
Well, I can say that at least our teacher feels very passionately about his subject
I don't have much to comment about the text, except that I agree 100 % with Flinn and the angry pasta. Even a superficial knowledge of any language will change your perception of the world, as previously just foreign words start to convey meanings to you. I have studied many languages without gaining any kind of mastery, and I still feel great about learning them because they shape so much of what I see.
Somewhere in the planning phase Flinn mentioned that Italian is a bit difficult, but I would like to offer some encouraging points. Although some things are a bit complicated like the verb forms, many things are still very easily accessible to an English speaker. First of all, the vocabulary is obviously predominantly Latin, and as English became heavily latinized over its history, most words will be familiar from some Latin expression used in English. Unlike in English, the relationship in between pronunciation and writing is very predictable, and while the grammar takes some effort, there aren't many frustrating surprises as you might find in the German gender and case system. At least I have found Italian pleasurable to learn!
Another interesting historical fact is that the kind of standard Italian we are about to learn is a very new thing, much a 20th century development for most Italians. According to Wikipedia, "only 2.5% of Italy's population could speak the Italian standardized language properly when the nation was unified in 1861." If you come across all kinds of weird word forms and pronunciations in movies or music, you have probably not misunderstood anything about your studies. You have just come across one of many regional languages. Particularly, the great Italian immigration into Americas happened before the standard language took hold, and that is why you might wonder why characters in Sopranos talk about gabagool when they mean capacollo. The characters in the show are in fact speaking Neapolitan (napulitano), not Italian. Standard Italian will be understood everywhere in Italy, so no worries.
Another interesting historical fact is that the kind of standard Italian we are about to learn is a very new thing, much a 20th century development for most Italians. According to Wikipedia, "only 2.5% of Italy's population could speak the Italian standardized language properly when the nation was unified in 1861." If you come across all kinds of weird word forms and pronunciations in movies or music, you have probably not misunderstood anything about your studies. You have just come across one of many regional languages. Particularly, the great Italian immigration into Americas happened before the standard language took hold, and that is why you might wonder why characters in Sopranos talk about gabagool when they mean capacollo. The characters in the show are in fact speaking Neapolitan (napulitano), not Italian. Standard Italian will be understood everywhere in Italy, so no worries.
That's so true and it's very important to understand this in order to be properly able to communicate in Italian. Now, it's not that other countries do not have regional dialects as well, but here in Italy it's very stretched, and very spread: even bordering villages speak different dialects and there are such huge differences sometimes that it's impossible to understand what they say (i.e. I used to go on holidays in Puglia/Apulia with a very good friend of mine from the Uni, and I wasn't really able to understand what his friends were saying most of the time.. I didn't bother though, as long as they kept refilling my glass of wine ).
Truth be told, it is very uncommon to find someone who speaks a perfect Italian, at the best, even if the form is correct, you can still hear the regional inflection (i.e. you can say if they are Roman, Neapolitan, Sicilian, etc) and that happens as well with TV (movies for the most) and other medias (minus in written form, of course). So it's very common to read and write in perfect Italian, and very uncommon to speak in perfect Italian (it's so uncommon that it does sound weird when you hear someone speaking academic Italian, almost ridiculous ).
On the other hand, when the message doesn't get through the first time, it's common to repeat it in a more precise Italian form (especially with kids or foreigners); we tend to use a better form when we argue too (that's very much a heritage from the Middle Ages, when we used Latin for formal communications).
So, considering the above, don't be surprised if often you are unable to get the meaning of a spoken sentence even if you have a decent knowledge of the language, just be patient and they are quite certainly going to repeat it until you get it (we are ignorant but polite, that is )
Last edited by Flinn; October 01, 2021 at 03:44 AM.
Well I don’t think anything outright surprised me or anything but I agree it’s nice to have someone who’s so passionate about teaching something.
I've been interested in Roman history and the like since I was young, the past 25 years which makes me feel old . I got into Ancient Rome and Ancient Greece, the stories of the legions and the hoplites,
then I got into Alexandar the Great and Macedon. Anyhow I’m rambling but I like what you said about is the Roman Empire the greatest and about the Christian church as well. I definitely don’t think the Christian church would have been as big as it is today if it wasn’t for the Roman Empire in some fashion. I know some people try to argue “well but….”, but I say what other alternative was there in terms of a nation allowing it to prosper at some point?
As for being the greatest, I think anyone that grew in the areas of an former Empire ot had relatives from there is going to say they were the greatest, Roman Empire, British Empire, Mongol Empire, or as in my ancestral homelands, the Austro-Hungarian Empire , but I think it’s important to note not one can truly claim that. They were the best at that specific time, and sometimes that can be debatable depending on who it is,but not overall, every empire did something to contribute to the world , positive or negative.
As for my language learning experience, I’ve been using the Duolingo app for some German, Dutch and Polish but casually, I do need to put more of a effort into it. My brother took Latin and Italian in college, although I think my sister in laws French is much better then his Italian skills .
As for my language learning experience, I’ve been using the Duolingo app for some German, Dutch and Polish but casually, I do need to put more of a effort into it. My brother took Latin and Italian in college, although I think my sister in laws French is much better then his Italian skills .
Actually the best way to learn a language is to use it for everyday's life. I mean, when one is forced to use a foreign language in order to be able to satisfy basic needs, that will certainly help for it to make a grip on their mind. This is a basic course, it's more meant to show you what Italian is and just in case you feel really comfortable with it and like it a lot, give it a go to properly learn it IRL.
Actually the best way to learn a language is to use it for everyday's life.
As a veteran of studying like a dozen languages, I would like to elaborate on that. Whereas you may not be able to move to Italy, you can still use it in everyday life through your hobbies and interests.
One of the most off-putting things about studying languages like we do in schools are those boring text books with their fictional characters and unnatural conversations. One usually has to do that to get started, but for any real learning and lasting motivation, you need to have fun through the medium of your new language! As soon as you start to have some command of the grammatical particles, verb inflections, and the like, you should start doing what you enjoy anyway or read about what you want to get information on in that language.
Computer games are really good, because they often present a manageable amount of text with great visual cues to help your memory. And you have a genuine in interest in what your character needs to do. You may not have the same interest in whether the guy in the textbook finds his way to the train station. I owe much of my Spanish to computer games. In the beginner phase, remakes of Monkey Island games were excellent. Short conversations and when you put your mouse pointers on object, it pops out their name in the language you play in. Later I was able to play through Baldur's Gate in the language, although that took a lot of dictionary work.
Comic books are great too for the same reason. I've read comics in many of the languages I have tried to learn. And thirdly, engage in things that interest you. If you like football and are interested in Italian football, go read stuff on Italian sports sites and check out what they talk on football forums. You will soon learn the terminology of your favorite sport and will soon be able to understand a lot of what is said. Or if you like (Italian) food, check out recipes and food blogs in Italian. I cannot stress enough the difference in challenge in between reading niche stuff or news articles and high literature. I have a few languages in which I have no hope of reading a classic novel but can easily follow what is being said on a familiar topic in a news article.
Last edited by Septentrionalis; October 01, 2021 at 01:54 PM.
Actually the best way to learn a language is to use it for everyday's life. I mean, when one is forced to use a foreign language in order to be able to satisfy basic needs, that will certainly help for it to make a grip on their mind. This is a basic course, it's more meant to show you what Italian is and just in case you feel really comfortable with it and like it a lot, give it a go to properly learn it IRL.
That's pretty good advice Flinn. I will try doing that with this and the other languages as well.
I must say, I am always a sucker for learning some phrases and whatever I can of the language of the place I'm visiting. It's one of the reasons I always have a Marco Polo (or similar) travel guide with me, as they always have a few really good pages of language stuff in the back. Plus, those guides have proper pronunciation guides as well, which is a must for me! And by learning a few things, and being able to do the basics in the local language, I always find people to be way happier when you interact with them. I mean, anyone can go to Rome and wander about, asking locals questions in English. But if you crack out some Italian, even very basic and rough Italian, the exchange is so different. Things instantly gain an air of familiarity and charm that cannot be there without you making that bit of effort. And that is something I love. So that is the big reason I am in the course in the first place, to get that bit of Italian necessary to get by on a vacation, making all the Italians that much more happy to be around me while I'm in there country.
As to the particularities of the lesson, the one thing I always find really interesting with Italian (and to a lesser extent, Spanish), is the insane diversity. I've known Italians from Pisa to Palermo, and it is so interesting to hear the intensity with which they talk about "their" languages (by which, they definitely never mean "Italian", but rather some (micro-)regional dialect). And I also found the politics and culture of languages in Italy to be very interesting and diverse as well. For example, basically every northern Italian I've met is crazy adamant about the different dialects being properly different languages (showing a fierce connection to the way they speak), whereas the Sicilian guy I know treated regional differences much more like differences of accent you get in any language. At any rate, I have noticed that Italians can bring a lot of history and politics into just a small statement about what they speak at home, and that to me is quite intriguing.
What is your take on that, Flinn? Do you speak Italian without an accent? Do you speak Italian with some regional accent? Or do you speak some Italic regional language? Where do you land on these things?
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What is your take on that, Flinn? Do you speak Italian without an accent? Do you speak Italian with some regional accent? Or do you speak some Italic regional language? Where do you land on these things?
I've grown in 3 different places with 3 completely different accents, and I can speak perfectly all of them; funniest part is that I move from one to another automatically, ie. when I go to Perugia (were I own a house and some properties) I switch to the local dialect after 20 seconds that I'm talking to someone, and it would be very hard for anyone to realize I haven't been living there for at the least 15 years
I have speech apraxia and VPI so when I talk, sometimes people ask if I’m from England because apparently i sound like I got a British accent, at least to them anyhow.