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Thread: Original Sin and the Nature of Christ

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    Default Original Sin and the Nature of Christ

    I wanted to explore this topic since it was brought up in the other thread.

    To summarize the main bodies of thought on this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiki
    Pelagianism is a heterodox Christian theological position that holds that the original sin did not taint human nature and that humans have the free will to achieve human perfection without divine grace.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wiki
    Augustine of Hippo (354–430) taught that Adam's sin[b] is transmitted by concupiscence, or "hurtful desire",[27][28] resulting in humanity becoming a massa damnata (mass of perdition, condemned crowd), with much enfeebled, though not destroyed, freedom of will.[4] When Adam sinned, human nature was thenceforth transformed. Adam and Eve, via sexual reproduction, recreated human nature. Their descendants now live in sin, in the form of concupiscence, a term Augustine used in a metaphysical, not a psychological sense. In Augustine's view (termed "Realism"), all of humanity was really present in Adam when he sinned, and therefore all have sinned. Original sin, according to Augustine, consists of the guilt of Adam which all humans inherit.
    From the outset, it’s fair to point out neither view is entirely Biblical. We know of course that humans cannot ever hope to achieve sinless perfection on their own, and that only the divine grace afforded by Jesus’ sacrifice can save us from condemnation for our disobedience to God. We also know sin itself cannot be inherent to one’s physical existence as a human, because Jesus was both God and man, he was “of the flesh,” tempted as we are, yet without sin. Paul himself alluded to this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Romans 8
    There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
    2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
    3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
    4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
    5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hebrews 4
    14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.
    15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
    Quote Originally Posted by Romans 1
    Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,
    2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,)
    3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
    4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
    5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:
    6 Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:
    7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hebrews 2
    14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
    15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
    16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
    17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
    18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.
    If Jesus was made “like his brethren” in every aspect of human nature, was tempted like us, and yet was without sin, it cannot be that humans are inherently sinful by virtue of being born. Yet we also know no one can achieve righteousness without Christ:

    Quote Originally Posted by Galatians 2
    16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

    17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.

    18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.

    19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.

    20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

    21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
    While the Augustinian view is clearly closer to the Biblical truth, the extent of his theory is based purely on extrapolation from inference, rather than exegesis of the text. For example:

    Quote Originally Posted by Romans 5
    8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
    9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
    10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
    11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.
    12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
    13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
    14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
    15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
    16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
    17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
    18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
    19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
    20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
    21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord
    Here Adam is directly contrasted to Christ. As Adam epitomizes disobedience to God, Christ is obedience. At the same time, as Paul says in verse 19, “many” (πολύς) in a context necessarily consistent with verse 12, “all” (πᾶς, see also 3:23), were led to disobedience and sin as a consequence of Adam’s choice and the knowledge of good and evil, so too are many led to justification through faith as a consequence of Jesus’ choice to sacrifice himself in accordance with God’s plan (John 3:16).

    It seems likely that Augustine sought to impute original sin as an appeal to consequence (what happens to dead babies, etc), but the Biblical answer is, we simply don’t know. We know that disobedience to God is condemnation to death, from which only faith in Jesus can save us. What that means for a human being that lacks the capability to disobey God is not explicitly known. We can infer things, knowing, for example, that sin does not come from God nor does he cause sin or lead anyone to temptation (James 1). But there is not concrete answer I can find, and no good can come of empty speculation regarding people we cannot know.

    I do think it is clear, however, that Jesus cannot have been born to original sin, nor can the act of sexual reproduction be inherently sinful in a way that would exclude Jesus from the concept of original sin, since Jesus was made “like his brethren in all things” despite being born of a virgin. One can see the Papist veneration of his mother Mary here as a logical inference of a vessel that would be capable of precluding Jesus from being born into inherently sinful flesh, consistent with Augustine’s theory. We also know God ordered man to be fruitful and multiply from the very beginning of creation, and he does not tempt nor cause anyone to sin, so procreative sex itself cannot be inherently sinful. Augustine’s premise of original sin by way of “concupiscence” is not Biblical.
    Last edited by Lord Thesaurian; September 23, 2021 at 08:48 PM.
    Of these facts there cannot be any shadow of doubt: for instance, that civil society was renovated in every part by Christian institutions; that in the strength of that renewal the human race was lifted up to better things-nay, that it was brought back from death to life, and to so excellent a life that nothing more perfect had been known before, or will come to be known in the ages that have yet to be. - Pope Leo XIII

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