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Thread: [Amendment] Divus reforms

  1. #1
    Akar's Avatar I am not a clever man
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    Default [Amendment] Divus reforms

    I propose changing the following section of the constitution,

    Large Awards are granted for exceptional contributions to an area of the site and awardees may adopt Citizenship:2
    • Divus - To achieve apotheosis, the nominee must have served as a Hexagon Council member (or previous equivalents), made a clear and distinguished contribution to the community, and provided exceptional service to TWC in their capacity as an administrator. Any former member of Administration is eligible, but they cannot be nominated within three months of resigning.3,4



    To read as follows,

    Large Awards are granted for exceptional contributions to an area of the site and awardees may adopt Citizenship:2
    • Divus - To achieve apotheosis, the nominee must have served as a Hexagon Council member (or previous equivalents), made a clear and distinguished contribution to the community, and provided exceptional service to TWC in their capacity as an administrator. Any former member of Administration is eligible. but they cannot be nominated within three months of resigning.3,4

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  2. #2
    Sir Adrian's Avatar the Imperishable
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Divus reforms

    I was gonna propose this but you beat me to it.

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  3. #3

    Default Re: [Amendment] Divus reforms

    What was the reason and context for its current behavior in the first place?

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  4. #4

    Default Re: [Amendment] Divus reforms

    I think it should be 6 months.
    Divus is a special award.

    OPPOSED

  5. #5
    Sir Adrian's Avatar the Imperishable
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Divus reforms

    The constitution does not say Divus is a spacial award. In fact it's treated just like any large award. And even if it was a special award, that does not imply we should wait or anything. In fact there really is no logical reason for the 3 month period at all.
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  6. #6
    Alwyn's Avatar Frothy Goodness
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Divus reforms

    Quote Originally Posted by Twilight Esker View Post
    What was the reason and context for its current behavior in the first place?
    Good question! It seems that, when the award was created, people didn't need to wait three months after an admin retired before proposing that they get a Divus. I found a proposal by Ragabash from 2006 which included (in green text) the addition of a three month waiting period before a Divus proposal.

    Unfortunately, neither the proposal nor the voting thread explains why the waiting period was added. The members discussing the proposal seemed to be more interested in the minimum period which someone needed to spend as an admin. Tthe original proposal required a minimum of six months as an admin; it seems that during the discussion this was edited to a year and then 18 months.

    If anyone who was active then can tell us why the three month wait before a Divus proposal was added, or if anyone can find any old thread which tells us, I'd be interested to find out what the reason was.

    Maybe the waiting period was added because people felt that, after three months, voting would be less about sadness that the person was leaving staff, and more about the person's contributions to the site? That's simply a guess.
    Last edited by Alwyn; September 19, 2021 at 08:20 AM.

  7. #7

    Default Re: [Amendment] Divus reforms

    Quote Originally Posted by Alwyn View Post
    Maybe the waiting period was added because people felt that, after three months, voting would be less about sadness that the person was leaving staff, and more about the person's contributions to the site? That's simply a guess.
    Although this does not really concern me, I was so puzzled by that seemingly arbitrary condition that I had to give it some thought. The only theory I could come up with is that they wanted divus to be someone who does not abandon the site immediately but continuous to come back. So there is a follow-up period. But your suggestion actually sounds more plausible.

  8. #8
    Alwyn's Avatar Frothy Goodness
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Divus reforms

    Good point, the three-month waiting period could have been intended to encourage former admins to keep coming back to TWC. Maybe it was a bit of both (both your suggestion and mine)?

  9. #9
    Sir Adrian's Avatar the Imperishable
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Divus reforms

    We already have awards that are meant to encourage people to come back to TWC though. Besides large awards can be given in absentia.
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  10. #10
    Gigantus's Avatar I am not special - I am a limited edition.
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Divus reforms

    Quote Originally Posted by Alwyn View Post
    Maybe the waiting period was added because people felt that, after three months, voting would be less about sadness that the person was leaving staff, and more about the person's contributions to the site? That's simply a guess.
    That gets my vote as well - hence opposed to the proposal. It would be rather tempting to give it to an admin as 'farewell' token othwerwise.










  11. #11
    Akar's Avatar I am not a clever man
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Divus reforms

    Waiting 3 months as a way to encourage them to keep coming back seems a bit silly to me. I do understand the logic of the 3 month wait being a way to let things cool down emotionally, although I disagree with the need for it.

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  12. #12

    Default Re: [Amendment] Divus reforms

    I doubt the delay has merit as 'incentive to keep coming back', especially since nothing except an extraordinary 180 turn in behavior should change people's minds about their merit to receive it. It makes more sense that it is an idea to push out the decision for people to have a 'review period' so they do not immediately reward a well liked admin as a farewell token the way Gigantus puts it.

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  13. #13

    Default Re: [Amendment] Divus reforms

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Adrian View Post
    The constitution does not say Divus is a spacial award. In fact it's treated just like any large award. And even if it was a special award, that does not imply we should wait or anything. In fact there really is no logical reason for the 3 month period at all.
    The wording is significantly different than the other large awards

    Awarded for exceptional contributions to the site in the capacity of a staff member.
    Divus
    Awarded for distinguished contributions to the community and exceptional service to TWC as an administrator.
    The Loincloth is also different...
    Awarded for demonstrating purity of mind and spirit on TWC, in the pursuit of humour and good times for all members.
    It is inaccurate to say they are all treated equally (exception is Novus, Opifex and Phalera).

    From memory the Divus is a special award given to members who demonstrated exceptional contribution as an admin.
    A 3 month waiting period prevents emotional based voting. besides if a candidate is worthy of the award, they would certainly pass the vote in three months. I do no get the urgency.
    If we are so eager to give out awards, then how about patronize a member for citizenship. More worth our time than debating this.

  14. #14
    Akar's Avatar I am not a clever man
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Divus reforms

    Every single Curial award is treated the exact same way. Let's keep this discussion oriented around this specific amendment, not about the differences between large awards, please.

    I would have no issues removing the requirements for a Divus recipient to be a former admin and allowing current admins to receive it as well.
    Last edited by Akar; September 20, 2021 at 08:50 AM.

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  15. #15

    Default Re: [Amendment] Divus reforms

    Quote Originally Posted by Akar View Post
    Every single Curial award is treated the exact same way. Let's keep this discussion oriented around this specific amendment, not about the differences between large awards, please.

    I would have no issues removing the requirements for a Divus recipient to be a current admin as well.
    We do already; it's called a Novus.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Divus reforms

    Sorry, I meant FORMER admin. I meant to say I wouldn't be opposed to opening up the award to CURRENT admins as well.

    SORRY, brain fart

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  17. #17

    Default Re: [Amendment] Divus reforms

    Quote Originally Posted by Akar View Post
    Sorry, I meant FORMER admin. I meant to say I wouldn't be opposed to opening up the award to CURRENT admins as well.

    SORRY, brain fart
    Same difference. We have the Novus for that.

    Divus isn't a "large Award" it is much higher than that. This is why the wording is different (much higher standard) and the requirement (3 months).
    Divus not only gives an award, but a badge and unique color that sets it above and part any other award except the badges for Garb and Ian.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Divus reforms

    This is not the place to discuss whether or not Divus is different or the same from other Curial awards.

    If you want to have that discussion, you can do it here or here or here.
    Last edited by Akar; September 20, 2021 at 11:52 AM.

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  19. #19

    Default Re: [Amendment] Divus reforms

    I'm not an expert, but I would assume if an award has unusual quirks such as a custom color, different legacy value and unique conditions as noted in the OP, then maybe something is different, and maybe it is worth comparing to help understand why.

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