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Thread: Abolish the 501st Modding Awards

  1. #1
    Akar's Avatar I am not a clever man
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    Default Abolish the 501st Modding Awards

    Well folks, it's been almost half a year since the last time this proposal went up on the auction block. Last time it was shot down people assured those of us in favor of abolition that they were definitely planning on using these awards, and that they wouldn't continue to go to waste. So, here we are, nearly 6 months later with no new 501st awardees to show for it. I'd say that's pretty good proof that there really is no desire to distribute these things around.

    The Curia clearly has no interest in these awards, so lets do away with them entirely.

    Discuss.

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  2. #2
    Flinn's Avatar His Dudeness of TWC
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    Default Re: Abolish the 501st Modding Awards

    I've always been of two minds regarding this award; I mean from one side I'm always up for shinies and new opportunities to reward people with them, but from the other side I always felt this award (as well as the Modding Service Award) to be very narrow and/or being already covered by other awards such as the Artifex badge or the Opifex.

    From what I understood by talking with people around here, the reason why these haven't been proposed (excluding Gig, but come one Gig is deserving every TWC award actually and Morticia if my merory serves me well) is because there are not many recipients since they are just duplicates of already existing awards.

    I'm inclined to vote to remove them, but I'm not a modder, so I'm also open to listen to why they should be kept instead, though after more than 2 years and one lonely recipient, it will be hard to convince me.
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  3. #3
    Sir Adrian's Avatar the Imperishable
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    Default Re: Abolish the 501st Modding Awards

    I'm disinclined towards removing bling unless doing so has a visible impact on site performance and resources.
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  4. #4
    makanyane's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Abolish the 501st Modding Awards

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Adrian View Post
    I'm disinclined towards removing bling unless doing so has a visible impact on site performance and resources.
    I'd normally agree (now, I've mellowed a bit with age) but it does seem that Gigantus is the only person with one, according to the awards list...

    I do think it would be worth keeping at least one alternative award for modders (e.g. not Artifex/Opifex with their link to citizenship), but having 4 different levels of alternative awards just seems confusing and liable to just generate more arguments about standards for the various awards rather than achieving anything useful.

  5. #5
    Akar's Avatar I am not a clever man
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    Default Re: Abolish the 501st Modding Awards

    They are barely even four different levels as they all have essentially the exact same Criteria. No one who qualifies for the lowest level wouldn't reasonably also qualify for ALL of the levels.

    I'm disinclined towards removing bling unless doing so has a visible impact on site performance and resources.
    In any case aside from this one I would find myself in agreement with you.

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  6. #6
    Morticia Iunia Bruti's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: Abolish the 501st Modding Awards

    Theoretical i have this Award too, but i chosed because of private reasons to remove them.

    But i wouldn't mind if this Award here will be abolished.
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    makanyane's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Abolish the 501st Modding Awards

    Quote Originally Posted by Morticia Iunia Bruti View Post
    Theoretical i have this Award too, but i chosed because of private reasons to remove them.
    I must admit, for aesthetic and other reasons I like the neat Avatar and hidden rep only look! It's what all the supercool kids had when I started modding here...

    Quote Originally Posted by Akar View Post
    They are barely even four different levels as they all have essentially the exact same Criteria. No one who qualifies for the lowest level wouldn't reasonably also qualify for ALL of the levels.
    I can understand what it was meant to do, e.g. work a bit like the colours on the staff awards, for a certain amount of work you'd get bronze, do it again and you'd upgrade to silver etc. It didn't seem to get very well explained though, and unless people are really watching closely for new members who've just done enough for the first level only, and nominating at that stage, then the tiered structure is going to be rather pointless.

  8. #8
    Alwyn's Avatar Frothy Goodness
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    Default Re: Abolish the 501st Modding Awards

    Yes, that look is rather cool!

    Makanyane and Akar made good points about the different levels and the potential for confusion. Would be worth keeping the award and having fewer levels?

    I can see where Sir Adrian is coming from - removing bling could be really disappointing for someone who has it (or hoped to get it). Even so, I agree with Flinn that this award seems to overlap with Artifex and Opifex. When should we nominate someone for award this as opposed to Artifex/Opifex? Is this something for people who already have Artifex and Opifex to get, or is it a stepping stone on the way to Artifex/Opifex, or something else?

  9. #9
    Morticia Iunia Bruti's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: Abolish the 501st Modding Awards

    I must admit, for aesthetic and other reasons I like the neat Avatar and hidden rep only look! It's what all the supercool kids had when I started modding here...
    Yes, that look is rather cool!
    Thanks, yeah i prefer the more clean up aesthetic a lot.

    OT:

    If this award isn't used much, it is failing its purpose of honoring and promoting modding. Perhaps its description is too confusing. But the side has already two awards for this:

    Artifex and Opifex.

    There are much more used in the past, so promoting them could be more effective than this new award.

    So it does no harm to remove it.
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  10. #10
    Akar's Avatar I am not a clever man
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    Default Re: Abolish the 501st Modding Awards

    Would be worth keeping the award and having fewer levels?
    That would probably only work if one is operating off the assumption that if there was one medal the Curia would actually hand it out. I don't think that is the case.

    If it's either keep them all or keep only one though I'm clearly in the latter camp. It could be a good middle ground between the two factions - reduce it to one award and see if that's even handed out at all.

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  11. #11
    Alwyn's Avatar Frothy Goodness
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    Default Re: Abolish the 501st Modding Awards

    Yes, we could abolish it entirely and I agree that it wouldn't cause much (if any) harm. Makanyane is right, only one person - Gigantus - has the award at any level.

    If Artifex and Opifex are awards for modding (mostly - if modders created modding tutorials, tools, etc those can be included in a nomination), is it worth having a separate award for creating modding tutorials, answering modders' questions and so on? If so, would you like to keep one level of this award, and using it for that? If not - fair enough, we can live without it.
    Last edited by Alwyn; September 12, 2021 at 10:20 AM.

  12. #12
    Akar's Avatar I am not a clever man
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    Default Re: Abolish the 501st Modding Awards

    I'd have no problem with that at all, assuming it does actually get used and we don't wind back up here in another 6 months or a year having not handed it out more than once.

    The problem is that we're not really giving utilizing the primary modding awards that we already have (Artifex, Opifex). If we're not regularly recognizing modders with the tools we have, whats to say we'd suddenly start now with this new avenue? I'm not opposed to adding more ways to recognize contributing members, but I'd like to see the ones we already have used before we start making new ones.

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  13. #13
    makanyane's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Abolish the 501st Modding Awards

    Those two older awards are tied up with the citizenship system, Artifex = citizen, Opifex still says Nominees must also meet the criteria to become a Citizen (if that's incorrect please point to correct text).

    Whilst it's likely that anyone the curia would get round to awarding probably meets the criteria for citizen, the individuals may not want to get involved with citizenship. Either through issues with other citizens and their standards, or simply because they don't particularly want their own conduct/contributions publicly debated by what sometimes seems like a slightly odd collection of online characters that can't agree on anything...

    So there's possibly a point for having a less contentious way of recognising modding contributions.

  14. #14
    Akar's Avatar I am not a clever man
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    Default Re: Abolish the 501st Modding Awards

    There could be something said for removing the "meet citizenship standards" requirement for Opifex.

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    Default Re: Abolish the 501st Modding Awards

    Quote Originally Posted by makanyane View Post
    Those two older awards are tied up with the citizenship system, Artifex = citizen, Opifex still says Nominees must also meet the criteria to become a Citizen (if that's incorrect please point to correct text).

    Whilst it's likely that anyone the curia would get round to awarding probably meets the criteria for citizen, the individuals may not want to get involved with citizenship. Either through issues with other citizens and their standards, or simply because they don't particularly want their own conduct/contributions publicly debated by what sometimes seems like a slightly odd collection of online characters that can't agree on anything...

    So there's possibly a point for having a less contentious way of recognising modding contributions.
    I agree with this. This is why I proposed separating recognition for modding contribution and those that wish to be recognized as a citizen as two different groups. This s what it was in the beginning.
    I think it should still be a badge.

    The award in question is not necessary. Something between the lowest and middle level would be good enough for Artifex IMO.

    Bling is great, but only if they are actually being given out. As long as citizens are not working together to achieve this goal, then bling is not being bling.
    Regardless if we keep them or not, at some point we have to address the larger issue that no one i really interested in warding members for their contribution.

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    Akar's Avatar I am not a clever man
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    Default Re: Abolish the 501st Modding Awards

    So, do we want to remove these or not, people?

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  17. #17
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    Default Re: Abolish the 501st Modding Awards

    Pitch. I wanted to make a more elegant proposal at the start of term, but this is all that needs to be said. So that's at least one support in the bag. Alwyn appears to offer a clear enough support.
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    Default Re: Abolish the 501st Modding Awards

    You have my support too.

    (until the citizenry is active enough, it isn't worth having something to have something).
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    Akar's Avatar I am not a clever man
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    Default Re: Abolish the 501st Modding Awards

    Moved to vote.

    You may vote here.

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  20. #20
    Gaius Baltar's Avatar Roma in aeternum
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    Default Re: Abolish the 501st Modding Awards

    According to the Constitution the proposal must have the support of three members. Only two have offered support in this thread.

    12 For being moved to vote the latest version of a resolution requires at least three Citizens to post in its Prothalamos thread indicating their support. The latest version of the resolution must be debated for at least three days in the Prothalamos before the proposer can request it be moved to vote.



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