Best strategies for maintaining public order and explaining what exactly causes unrest

[Shlazaor]

I am interesting in what strategies players use to create and maintain public order in their empire. I think I have a fairly good idea of what leads to increased public order but I'm still not ironclad on how the mechanics work.

Order

Buildings

Buildings can improve public order through happiness and law. Between the two law is far superior to happiness. In fact one could make an argument that outside of specific military/commercial settlements, temples of law are preferable over any other temple in almost any circumstance.

Characters

Characters can increase public order through traits, ancillaries and through influence. Traits give the most transparent advantage with easy +1 modifiers. The more complex interaction is through influence, which I believe, increases the cultural growth of the specific faction.

My question is whether influence plays a role in public order beyond the boost to cultural drift?

Troops

Garrisoning a province can provide up to 65% public order.

Culture

By slowly building your own culture at the expense of the local culture you should be able to improve public order. My question is whether there are any hard numbers behind this? For example if my culture is 50% in a given settlement, how much more public order does that translate into relative to if my culture represented only 10% in the given province? Or is that even how it works?

Taxes

People appreciate a light hand.

Unrest

Unrest can be caused by a variety of factors.

Devastation

Allowing enemy armies to pillage your land doesn't engender the happiness of the locals.

Famine

If your people starve they will be upset.

Civil Unrest/Unrest

The pitchfork and the white/black face. I honestly have no idea what separates these two. I know that some regions have a default unrest but I'm unclear on exactly how this mechanic works and would love some input.

Squalor

Essentially just the natural agitation that grows from having a big population and the decadence/poverty that follows. I know characters can reduce squalor but I'm not super educated on this factor.

Culture

When you don't share the same culture as the occupants the occupants tend to dislike you yet. Since I don't quite understand how culture reduces unrest I obviously don't understand exactly how it produces it either.

Characters

Bad governors can wreck public order the same way good ones can improve it.

Taxes

People don't appreciate extortion.

I am sure there are others but these are the only ones sticking at the top of my head for the moment.

In conclusion I just wanted to start out a conversation to make the exact mechanics of public order in the game more transparent for folks like me that really enjoy the game, and frankly even enjoy the way you really have to consider how you will keep what you take, but need some help on understanding the mechanics fully.

[Dooz]

Maybe it was too obvious to mention, but don't forget taxes :p

[Shlazaor]

Maybe it was too obvious to mention, but don't forget taxes :p

Added!

[Shoebopp]

Some corrections and supplementary information:

The max garrison public order boost was reduced from 80% to 65% in 2.35a now. For nomadic camps, it's now capped at 30%.

Civil unrest is determined by some unknown function of your faction's culture relative to the smattering of other cultures present. Generally, the higher your faction's culture, the lower the civil unrest, with 100% factional culture completely wiping out civil unrest while 0% factional culture incurring 50% civil unrest. What happens in between 100% and 0% seems more murky, so we can guess that the relative proportion of other cultures factor in. Maybe if all the non-faction cultures are equally distributed between competitors, your own faction will enjoy plurality and civil unrest seems lower? Whereas if all the non-faction culture is concentrated into one "united" foreign culture, the civil unrest would be much higher?

An army devastating land does not seem to create general unrest (pitchfork icon). HOWEVER, if an enemy army camps on a port tile, not only would it blockade the port similar to how a navy does, but another form of unrest appears in the port's owning settlement. The description for that unrest reads "The merchants in this settlement are unhappy" or something. Either way, squash all enemy armies camping in your lands ASAP.

EBII introduces the concept of "Base Unrest" - basically, pitchforks unrest that is fixed at a value. You can decrease or increase the total pitchfork unrest with governor traits and ancillaries, but the calculations always start at the base unrest. Some settlements are inherently stable and have low base unrest. This is the case with most faction's starting capitals - I recall blitzing Rome as Epeiros (Rome has only 5% hellenistic polities so the civil unrest is initially untenable) yet the city always seemed easy to control. Turns out the base unrest is so low that the overall public order of Rome is still better than a culturally compatible settlement with much higher base unrest (Korinthos, for example). Other regions have insane base unrest and require a prepared governor to immediately swoop in and stabilize the situation. The two most rebellious settlements in this sense are Ptolemais-Akko, which seems to have a base unrest of 80% (the highest amount that unrest can go!), and the Ligurian settlement, which I KNOW FOR A FACT has a base unrest far exceeding 80% (I concentrated all unrest-decreasing ancillaries onto my Roman Faction Leader and had him govern Liguria. Its total unrest was still displayed at 80%. Unrest higher than 80% will still be displayed and detrimental as 80%. You need to decrease the unrest even more in order for it to finally dip beneath 80% and start decreasing).

Characters with loyalties less than 3 will cause extra pitchfork unrest.

[Domaje]

Check this guide. It is starting to be a bit old, but the mechanics haven't changed.

[Hellenikon]

Regarding influence: EB2 uses the alternative piety mode from Brittania Kingdoms campaign, so what you're seeing is an improvement in public order through a decrease in the pips of cultural ("religion" for the engine) unrest. Here is my guide on the alternative piety mode.
https://www.twcenter.net/forums/show...ive-piety-mode

The white/black face is the "religious" unrest, shown as cultural here. The pitchfork unrest is generic unrest created normally from conquest, but also devastation and presence of rebels. Law bonuses reduce this pitchfork unrest. I guess it can be a bit confusing due to sharing names.

[Marie Louise von Preussen]

It's good to station a lot of cheap troops inside. At least 5-6 for interior cities, while min 8 for border cities. As Pontos, while it was hard taking off, I found out that building Cappadocian Spearmen, Pantodapoi and Pantodapoi Phalangitai works the best for any garrison since they're comparatively cheap. These can be bolstered with Akontistai as well as Toxotai or local variants of these.

[Domaje]

Regarding influence: EB2 uses the alternative piety mode from Brittania Kingdoms campaign, so what you're seeing is an improvement in public order through a decrease in the pips of cultural ("religion" for the engine) unrest. Here is my guide on the alternative piety mode.
https://www.twcenter.net/forums/show...ive-piety-mode

I don't recall seeing an administrative pip in the settlement details in EBII, do you know why it was deleted ? And how does one can put it back ? It sounds interesting to have a way to reduce corruption in far away province with good governors, maybe with a even higher corruption limit.

[Shlazaor]

It's good to station a lot of cheap troops inside. At least 5-6 for interior cities, while min 8 for border cities. As Pontos, while it was hard taking off, I found out that building Cappadocian Spearmen, Pantodapoi and Pantodapoi Phalangitai works the best for any garrison since they're comparatively cheap. These can be bolstered with Akontistai as well as Toxotai or local variants of these.

Thanks for the advice. Does unit quality play a role in the public order that can be garnered by troops? In other words does it make a difference to have 3 elite troops versus 6 weaker ones or is it purely a numbers game where 2 units will also provide more public order than 1?

[Shoebopp]

Thanks for the advice. Does unit quality play a role in the public order that can be garnered by troops? In other words does it make a difference to have 3 elite troops versus 6 weaker ones or is it purely a numbers game where 2 units will also provide more public order than 1?

Only the unit numbers matter. A unit of 100 cataphract soldiers has the exact same garrison boost as a depleted unit of 100 Pantodapoi, but cost waaaaay more. Use large-unit cheap troops every time

[Shlazaor]

Only the unit numbers matter. A unit of 100 cataphract soldiers has the exact same garrison boost as a depleted unit of 100 Pantodapoi, but cost waaaaay more. Use large-unit cheap troops every time

That’s great to confirm. Did you know if they had updated any unique locations/region descriptions in the latest update?

[Shoebopp]

I'm not sure, I don't keep track of that. There are quite a few regional "buildings" missing descriptions, so you can expect those to be fleshed out in the future

[Kurdish Hillman]

Low-tier levy and skirmisher units such as the Psiloi class, Hoplitai Haploi and Pantodapoi tend to have the hidden "is_peasant" trait which halves their effectiveness as garrison units.

[bismarck 1899]

really?! why is that trait hidden? In essence one has to go through all low tier units to find the ones that give the full bonus?

[Jurand of Cracow]

it's not a trait, it's an attribute.

But it seems you need to do it as there're apparent inconsistencies. Eg. Komatai have both is_peasant and free_upkeep, but Komatai Toxotai have only free_upkeep. What follows: Komatai Toxotai are twice as good (per capita) in keeping the order.

[realm56]

it's not a trait, it's an attribute.

But it seems you need to do it as there're apparent inconsistencies. Eg. Komatai have both is_peasant and free_upkeep, but Komatai Toxotai have only free_upkeep. What follows: Komatai Toxotai are twice as good (per capita) in keeping the order.

That reminds me, this is the full list of free upkeep units that are not considered peasants by the game and can defend settlements reasonably well and/or respond to minor threats (For Garrison units) due to their good stats such as:

• Hoplitai (Hellenistic Classical Hoplites)
• Eporeda Akus (West Celt Light Cavalry)
• Epades Dessis (Cisalpine Cavalry)
• Uergepades (Eburones Cavalry)
• Komnetsamoi (British Raiders)
• Epatoi Londoi (East Celt Light Cavalry)
• Epegaisoi (Baltic Light Cavalry)
• Egaretros (Pomeranian Cavalry)
• Getikoi Hippotoxotai (Dacian Horse-Archers)
• Komatai Toxotai (Dacian Archers)
• Kinnetoi Kallaekoi (Callaecian Medium Infantry)
• Mebdie Hostite (Leusitane Light Spearmen)
• Principes Camillan (Camillan + Polybian Heavy Infantry Maniple)
• Cohors Tulutaria (Post-Marian Levy Cohorts)
• Leigof (Lucano-Brettian Light Infantry)
• Ilieis (Sardinian Warriors)
• Tvrm Pes Rasna (Etruscan Hoplite)
• Cohors Sociorum (Polybian Allied Infantry Maniple)
• Dorekim Afriqim (Liby-Phoenician Infantry)
• Mishoterim ha'Belot Ponnimah (Carthaginian Citizen Militia)
• Nosei-Romah Lubiyim (Libyan Infantry)
• Parashim Numidim (Numidian Cavalry)
• Mitnagsim Numidim (Numidian Skirmishers)
• Parashim Lybim (Libyan Cavalry)
• Phalangitai Makhimoi (Native Egyptian Phalanx)
• Makhimoi (Native Egyptian Infantry)
• Farasawt (Ethiopian Cavalry)
• Farashaya Qashate (Nabatean Horse Archers)
• Reglaya Mehrebay (North Arabian Shortswordsmen)
• Rakabin Arabi (Bedouin Camelry)
• Deuteroi Phalangitai (Hellenistic Light Phalanx)
• Pantodapoi Phalangitai (Hellenistic Native Phalanx)
• Hemithorakitai Peltophoroi (Hellenistic Medium Infantry)
• Euzonoi (Hellenistic Medium Skirmishers)
• Hoplitai Lakedaimonos (Lakedaimonian Hoplites)
• Doryphoroi Ioudaioi (Jewish Spearmen)
• Illyrioi Hoplitai (Illyrian Light Hoplite)
• Illyrioi Thureophoroi (Illyrian Light Spearmen)
• Mudunup i Kappodakiya (Anatolian Light Cavalry)
• Netadzik Ayrudzi (Armenian Horse-Archers)
• Doryphoroi Kolkhoi (Colchian Spearmen)
• Eranag Aswar i Ashtan (Iranian Javelin Cavalry)
• Aryanag Aswar (Arachosian Cavalry)
• Ksatriya Khadgacarmadharas (Indian Swordsmen)
• Aursa Baexdzhyntae (Aursan Riders)
• Alan Baragatae (Alan Riders)
• Iwzag Baragatae (Iwzag Riders)
• Sauroma Baragatae (Sauromatian Riders)
• Daha Baragatae (Dahan Riders)
• Daha Artsibaratae (Dahan Mounted Skirmishers)
• Aswar i Kamanan (Parthian Horse-Archers)
• Nezagdar (Iranian Spearmen)
• Tigrakhaucha Ashwabara (Pointed Hat Riders)
• Saka Durnabara (Sakan Horse-Archers)
• Aswar i Sakastan (Horsemen from Sakastan)
• Saka Ashwabara (Sakan Riders)
• Saka Artsibaratae (Sakan Mounted Skirmishers)
• Tura Aspabarata (Turan Riders)
• Tura Drunabarata (Turan Foot Archers)
• Skuda Aspabarata (Skythian Riders)
• Asana Ashwabara (Asanan Riders)

The highlighted units are particularly good as garrison units due to a combination of their combat utility, good combat stats and/or large unit sizes.

Yeah, there are a lot of them... but note:

• The free upkeep only applies in regions where you can actually recruit/replenish these units and restricted to the time periods when these units would have been available.