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Thread: Questions! Questions that need answering!

  1. #21

    Default Re: Questions! Questions that need answering!

    Oh no, cultural conflict causes civil unrest, which is the black/white face thing. Base unrest (pitchforks) is always there, but you can add to or subtract from that base unrest with character traits/ancillaries. Pitchfork unrest cannot go below 0% or above 80%, even if the total sum of all factors goes below or above. The thresholds for civil unrest is murky. I'm afraid I can't say anything else other than 100% factional culture completely eliminates civil unrest, and 0% factional culture USUALLY results in 50% civil unrest, though I've seen culturally alien provinces only suffer from 40% civil unrest. The equation is murky

  2. #22

    Default Re: Questions! Questions that need answering!

    Quote Originally Posted by Shoebopp View Post
    Oh no, cultural conflict causes civil unrest, which is the black/white face thing. Base unrest (pitchforks) is always there, but you can add to or subtract from that base unrest with character traits/ancillaries. Pitchfork unrest cannot go below 0% or above 80%, even if the total sum of all factors goes below or above. The thresholds for civil unrest is murky. I'm afraid I can't say anything else other than 100% factional culture completely eliminates civil unrest, and 0% factional culture USUALLY results in 50% civil unrest, though I've seen culturally alien provinces only suffer from 40% civil unrest. The equation is murky
    Thanks for the clarification. So technically cultural integration can make public order worse before it makes it better? Characters are the only mechanism to detract from the base unrest but buildings/garrisons can compensate for it?

    Is there any PO incentive to keeping provinces at a lower level of development or do you always want to upgrade when finances allow?

  3. #23

    Default Re: Questions! Questions that need answering!

    Quote Originally Posted by Shlazaor View Post
    While everything you said is correct, at best I'm not sure it matters, and at worst it simply supports my point. Rebellions didn't just occur to occur. If provinces were happy revolts did not occur. For example slaves were treated as trash during the time of the Servile Wars largely because Italy was flush with them and they simply lacked value due to their numbers. That meant not only was their strong motivation for rebellion but there were a lot of slaves available to participate in the rebellion. When the slave population died down it not only meant fewer slaves for revolt but that they also tended to be treated better as a whole because they weren't seem as being as easily replaced. That made the risk of rebellion more keen for slaves. As such massive slave rebellions stopped occurring. Cause and effect. My beef with the system is that there is no cause and effect. It's a random screw you anywhere on the map where players have no agency.

    I've never taken issue with EB2 difficulty but there is nothing historically justified about a total lack of agency. Again, it's my 2cents. It's not like that's worth much. Modders are gonna do as they please.
    I don't think you quite appreciate how impossible it was for the ancients, with the tools they had at their disposal, to keep public order in a region as large as our provinces. They weren't just "slave revolts" the local peoples had their own grudges against whomever the ruling power were, various factions vied with each other for control (with ancient enmities mixed in for seasoning), there were cross-border raids by neighbouring people for cattle and horses (or slave-taking). Piracy and banditry were rife wherever central authorities weakened, or were distant. The modern world is nothing like the ancient, any state's hold on the people in an area it nominally ruled was tenuous.

    It's not a "random screw you" and has nothing to do with player agency (not least because the revolts script affects the AI just the same), it's about the context that existed. To get to the specifics of the mechanics, there is a 6% chance of a rising occurring each turn (7.5% chance for Troublesome Regions). When they happen, they won't happen again for at least another 50 turns (25 turns for Troublesome Regions). Most of the stacks that spawn are only 5 units, occasionally it's 8, neither of those are "massive rebellions" they're small risings. If you keep sufficient forces on hand to police your interior, they shouldn't cause you any problems.

  4. #24

    Default Re: Questions! Questions that need answering!

    Quote Originally Posted by QuintusSertorius View Post
    I don't think you quite appreciate how impossible it was for the ancients, with the tools they had at their disposal, to keep public order in a region as large as our provinces. They weren't just "slave revolts" the local peoples had their own grudges against whomever the ruling power were, various factions vied with each other for control (with ancient enmities mixed in for seasoning), there were cross-border raids by neighbouring people for cattle and horses (or slave-taking). Piracy and banditry were rife wherever central authorities weakened, or were distant. The modern world is nothing like the ancient, any state's hold on the people in an area it nominally ruled was tenuous.

    It's not a "random screw you" and has nothing to do with player agency (not least because the revolts script affects the AI just the same), it's about the context that existed. To get to the specifics of the mechanics, there is a 6% chance of a rising occurring each turn (7.5% chance for Troublesome Regions). When they happen, they won't happen again for at least another 50 turns (25 turns for Troublesome Regions). Most of the stacks that spawn are only 5 units, occasionally it's 8, neither of those are "massive rebellions" they're small risings. If you keep sufficient forces on hand to police your interior, they shouldn't cause you any problems.
    I appreciate the additional information. Those are definitely useful mechanical details.

  5. #25

    Default Re: Questions! Questions that need answering!

    What is the best way to prevent the royal spy ancillary from popping up on your generals? Which of the 5 traits (optimism/unselfish/charismatic/smart/physical) is most important? Can someone explain those traits a little bit more in-depth? I'm trying to figure out which ones I should be prioritizing in adoption scenarios. I think unselfish leads to fewer corruption traits and charisma leads to more influence? It seems like those two would be very important.

  6. #26

    Default Re: Questions! Questions that need answering!

    Quote Originally Posted by Shlazaor View Post
    What is the best way to prevent the royal spy ancillary from popping up on your generals? Which of the 5 traits (optimism/unselfish/charismatic/smart/physical) is most important? Can someone explain those traits a little bit more in-depth? I'm trying to figure out which ones I should be prioritizing in adoption scenarios. I think unselfish leads to fewer corruption traits and charisma leads to more influence? It seems like those two would be very important.
    The triggers for the Diopter Basilikos (Royal Spy) Ancillary are as follows:

    • Must be selfish
    • Loyalty is less than 2
    • Is Family member
    • Character has at least 75% movement points remaining at turn end
    • Character has Hellenistic Ethnicity (Heterogenes also counts)


    If all these conditions are fulfilled, there is less than 2% chance that the character in question will get it each turn.

    I realize this is a really unfortunate ancillary to have, being on the bad side of your sovereign and all.... but your chances of getting it are still relatively low, especially if you put idle FMs in the capital while your faction leader is attending court there whihc in that case they will actually gain loyalty instead of losing it, especially if your leader has high Authority and your empire is relatively small.
    To fight and conquer in all our battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting.
    - Sun Tzu



  7. #27

    Default Re: Questions! Questions that need answering!

    Speaking of the Diopter Basilikos ancillary, it really doesn't make sense that KH characters can get it. At least, they should have a league of cities-appropriate equivalent ("Strategos' Eye" perhaps?).

  8. #28

    Default Re: Questions! Questions that need answering!

    Quote Originally Posted by realm56 View Post
    The triggers for the Diopter Basilikos (Royal Spy) Ancillary are as follows:

    • Must be selfish
    • Loyalty is less than 2
    • Is Family member
    • Character has at least 75% movement points remaining at turn end
    • Character has Hellenistic Ethnicity (Heterogenes also counts)


    If all these conditions are fulfilled, there is less than 2% chance that the character in question will get it each turn.

    I realize this is a really unfortunate ancillary to have, being on the bad side of your sovereign and all.... but your chances of getting it are still relatively low, especially if you put idle FMs in the capital while your faction leader is attending court there whihc in that case they will actually gain loyalty instead of losing it, especially if your leader has high Authority and your empire is relatively small.
    Thanks! That's just the answer I needed. So my unselfish guys are safe. That's good. That 75% movement is fine but what is the rationale for that variable? Seems a bit strange.

  9. #29

    Default Re: Questions! Questions that need answering!

    Is there a reason enslavement seems to tank reliability? What is the optimal length to leave children in school settlements? Do spies embedded with regular army units reduce risk of defection (for example units going back to be retrained)? Is Sardis the furthest west I can build a royal patris? Can I safely move the patris in Seleukia and place it in Baktria where it would be more useful? Is there a location even more north of Baktria where it could be placed?
    Last edited by Shlazaor; August 20, 2021 at 08:59 AM.

  10. #30

    Default Re: Questions! Questions that need answering!

    Anyone has tried Carthage native administraion that you get after barcid reform?

    Because you cannot upgarde it into punic kleruchy and i was wondering if that is intentional and the guide is wrong or it simply hasn't been fixed yet.

  11. #31

    Default Re: Questions! Questions that need answering!

    Here are the requirements for the Punic Kleruchy Government:


    • 30% West Mediterranean Polities
    • Trade Outpost (Precursor to Trade and settler Colonies)
    • Large Town Settlement
    • Barcid Reforms


    As far as I can see in the relevant files, I don't see anything that's broken and the guide is still valid, could you post a screenshot of the settlement in question along with all of the buildings present (If playing Med II on Steam, you can take a screenshot using the FN + F12 buttons pressed simultaneously).
    To fight and conquer in all our battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting.
    - Sun Tzu



  12. #32

    Default Re: Questions! Questions that need answering!

    Quote Originally Posted by realm56 View Post
    Here are the requirements for the Punic Kleruchy Government:


    • 30% West Mediterranean Polities
    • Trade Outpost (Precursor to Trade and settler Colonies)
    • Large Town Settlement
    • Barcid Reforms


    As far as I can see in the relevant files, I don't see anything that's broken and the guide is still valid, could you post a screenshot of the settlement in question along with all of the buildings present (If playing Med II on Steam, you can take a screenshot using the FN + F12 buttons pressed simultaneously).
    I build it in Gader(Turdetani one) with like 80% WMP which is already a city with large trade colony as soon as barcid reform happens. I do can upgrade to punic kleruchy if i build punic district but i cannot upgrade if i build native administration.

    Also i have no idea how to give my picture to forum and my pc are not connected to internet so i don't know how to bring my screenshot

  13. #33

    Default Re: Questions! Questions that need answering!

    As Carthage, what are the requirements for building a Small Settlers Colony? I'm trying to build one in Kirtan, and there is both a Supervised Colony and Strategic Fortifications there, but it's not appearing in the building menu.

    I've got the points - cos it's appearing as an option in Iykoshim - but am I missing anything else? Kirtan's still a camp, is that the issue?

    EDIT: Nevermind, I didn't realise that I needed to build the Trade Outpost first.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails colony.jpg  
    Last edited by Ivir Baggins; August 24, 2021 at 12:59 PM.

  14. #34

    Default Re: Questions! Questions that need answering!

    Quote Originally Posted by Shoebopp View Post
    Slingers are literally unusable now. Their arc has been lowered to the point where you CANNOT have them deployed behind your frontlines and shoot over them - they'll just inflict grievous friendly fire casualties on their comrades. You can't maneuver them around the enemy and shoot them from behind either - slingers' shot spread have been widened as well, making the projectiles wildly inaccurate. The ONLY way to properly use them is to deploy them in front of your lines - they'll have no time to fire if the enemy is advancing, and will get shredded before firing back if you're advancing.
    I wonder what has been the rationale for this change. I did some reading online, and although I cannot fully assess the reliability of the sources, it seems as if long range for indirect fire is among the benefits of slingers attested both in antiquity and by modern research. I can imagine the effectiveness of the sling suffering to some degree in indirect fire in comparison with bows, but slinger units should definitely be able to shoot over the heads of their comrades.

    As for the changes in diplomacy, I appreciate the effort in trying to improve things. But if the end result is perceived as worse or less natural than the original, I wish that the older one could be reinstituted until the shortcomings are fixed. These news do not really encourage embracing the newest version of EBII, even if many other things have been improved.

  15. #35

    Default Re: Questions! Questions that need answering!

    Quote Originally Posted by Shlazaor View Post
    Is there a reason enslavement seems to tank reliability? What is the optimal length to leave children in school settlements? Do spies embedded with regular army units reduce risk of defection (for example units going back to be retrained)? Is Sardis the furthest west I can build a royal patris? Can I safely move the patris in Seleukia and place it in Baktria where it would be more useful? Is there a location even more north of Baktria where it could be placed?
    1. Not sure what you mean by reliability, please elaborate
    2. Sharp characters will continue to advance in schooling (None -> Cultured -> Erudite), up to an extreme degree if they are also Uncharismatic and Languorous (Erudite -> Scholastic -> Pedantic), up until the age of 28. However, a character will always enjoy the probability of gaining advanced schooling-related traits and ancilliaries at any age. Dumping a character into the best school in your empire as soon as they turn 16 up until they turn 28 is the most "efficient". Any more schooling still helps but not as intensely as the first 12 years. If your character is a voracious learner (gains good levels in Public Speaking, Philosophy, or Politician...) and skilled social networker (gains Historian, Librarian, Inventor...), you can even end his education early. Keep an eye on characters that may progress beyond Erudite. Though these "bookworm" traits probably have an even better trigger for advanced schooling traits, they come with a heft influence and hitpoints malus. Future generals will NOT enjoy these
    3. There's plenty of anecdotal evidence supporting your claim, but no official standpoint though
    4. Each faction's Basilike Patris may have slightly different requirements. The one for most Diadochi factions generally require the royal_core hidden resource and one of hellen1 or hellen2. Check the export_descr_buildings.txt for full details.
    5. Although most EBII team members claim that, once built, a BP permanently uses up 1 of the 3 allowed slots, my gameplay experiences say otherwise. You CAN destroy one of your more inconvenient BPs and build one elsewhere, but you must do so carefully due to the following mechanics:
    - You can always have one BP at any empire size, up to 2 with 13 or more regions, and up to 3 with 26 or more regions.
    - Clicking on the BP in the building browser will "reserve" one of the 3 allowed BPs. If you cancel the BP, or lose the settlement before it's completed, that "reserved" BP slot is lost forever. That means you would be limited to 2 BPs at 26 regions! If you mess up one more time, you will need 26 regions just to build one BP! Don't even think about what happens if you cancel a BP then.
    So, if you want to relocate a BP, destroy the old one at any time, choose a new location, and camp a highly loyal and powerful army next to that settlement. Make sure the settlement is very stable public order-wise as well. Keep that army there until the BP is complete. You must take NO chances.
    6. Probably not. There are settlements with royal_core north of Baktria - it's probably the Sakan starting capital. However, there are NO hellen1 or hellen2 provinces that far north. That's why the Baktrian mission to capture Chach and Bukhark mention that "no Hellen has gone here before".

  16. #36

    Default Re: Questions! Questions that need answering!

    Quote Originally Posted by Shoebopp View Post
    1. Not sure what you mean by reliability, please elaborate
    2. Sharp characters will continue to advance in schooling (None -> Cultured -> Erudite), up to an extreme degree if they are also Uncharismatic and Languorous (Erudite -> Scholastic -> Pedantic), up until the age of 28. However, a character will always enjoy the probability of gaining advanced schooling-related traits and ancilliaries at any age. Dumping a character into the best school in your empire as soon as they turn 16 up until they turn 28 is the most "efficient". Any more schooling still helps but not as intensely as the first 12 years. If your character is a voracious learner (gains good levels in Public Speaking, Philosophy, or Politician...) and skilled social networker (gains Historian, Librarian, Inventor...), you can even end his education early. Keep an eye on characters that may progress beyond Erudite. Though these "bookworm" traits probably have an even better trigger for advanced schooling traits, they come with a heft influence and hitpoints malus. Future generals will NOT enjoy these
    3. There's plenty of anecdotal evidence supporting your claim, but no official standpoint though
    4. Each faction's Basilike Patris may have slightly different requirements. The one for most Diadochi factions generally require the royal_core hidden resource and one of hellen1 or hellen2. Check the export_descr_buildings.txt for full details.
    5. Although most EBII team members claim that, once built, a BP permanently uses up 1 of the 3 allowed slots, my gameplay experiences say otherwise. You CAN destroy one of your more inconvenient BPs and build one elsewhere, but you must do so carefully due to the following mechanics:
    - You can always have one BP at any empire size, up to 2 with 13 or more regions, and up to 3 with 26 or more regions.
    - Clicking on the BP in the building browser will "reserve" one of the 3 allowed BPs. If you cancel the BP, or lose the settlement before it's completed, that "reserved" BP slot is lost forever. That means you would be limited to 2 BPs at 26 regions! If you mess up one more time, you will need 26 regions just to build one BP! Don't even think about what happens if you cancel a BP then.
    So, if you want to relocate a BP, destroy the old one at any time, choose a new location, and camp a highly loyal and powerful army next to that settlement. Make sure the settlement is very stable public order-wise as well. Keep that army there until the BP is complete. You must take NO chances.
    6. Probably not. There are settlements with royal_core north of Baktria - it's probably the Sakan starting capital. However, there are NO hellen1 or hellen2 provinces that far north. That's why the Baktrian mission to capture Chach and Bukhark mention that "no Hellen has gone here before".
    1. My reliability rating in diplomacy seems to tank when I choose to enslave cities or armies.
    2. Badass! thanks for all the answers.

  17. #37

    Default Re: Questions! Questions that need answering!

    Quote Originally Posted by Shlazaor View Post
    1. My reliability rating in diplomacy seems to tank when I choose to enslave cities or armies.
    2. Badass! thanks for all the answers.
    1. Yes, that's an actual game mechanic! Your reputation tanks only if you treat faction-owned settlements poorly. Eleutheroi settlements can be ravaged to your heart's content. As for the "lore" reason why this mechanic exists, well, word gets out that you're committing war crimes left and right and neighboring factions will naturally become more wary. For a real-world example, you didn't think Great Britain and France reacted strongly to Nazi Germany Anschluss'ing left and right in 1938? Oh wait they were totally cool with that and their relations with Hitler shot up to Outstanding overnight. But think of how a rational state actor would react to things like enslavement and conquest
    2. No problem!
    Last edited by Shoebopp; August 27, 2021 at 09:48 PM.

  18. #38

    Default Re: Questions! Questions that need answering!

    Quote Originally Posted by Shoebopp View Post
    1. Yes, that's an actual game mechanic! Your reputation tanks only if you treat faction-owned settlements poorly. Eleutheroi settlements can be ravaged to your heart's content. As for the "lore" reason why this mechanic exists, well, word gets out that you're committing war crimes left and right and neighboring factions will naturally become more wary. For a real-world example, you didn't think Great Britain and France reacted strongly to Nazi Germany Anschluss'ing left and right in 1938? Oh wait they were totally cool with that and their relations with Hitler shot up to Outstanding overnight. But think of how a rational state actor would react to things like enslavement and conquest
    2. No problem!
    Seems reasonable enough. What about faction armies? Can I enslave them or is it just the settlements?

  19. #39

    Default Re: Questions! Questions that need answering!

    Quote Originally Posted by Shlazaor View Post
    Seems reasonable enough. What about faction armies? Can I enslave them or is it just the settlements?
    You can choose to enslave the the captives you captured during the battle. It will have the same disastrous hit to your reputation though, especially if you do it to thousands at a time. That's why I nearly always choose the ransom option. You either get a lot of money or the faction can't pay and their troops get enslaved anyway, except this time it won't tank your reputation.

  20. #40

    Default Re: Questions! Questions that need answering!

    Is there a map/list showing which provinces are "troublesome"/have a greater chance of rebellion? Also, is there a list with all the units that are going to be introduced in future updates(other than early imperial/"augustan" legionaries)?

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