Post your battlefield tactics and its effectiveness.

[ntabc2001]

I haven't seen a thread dedicated to this topic though a Total War's game shines the most when its player commands an exciting battle, then conquers the whole map by bullying the game's engine with funny tactics. Share them here, may your tactics inspire others to achieve a perfect, beautiful gameplay that one would dream about. Hopefully you guys rediscover an lost art of battlefield harassment or melee heavy infantry brute force or deployment of artillery so significant that your governments track you down and give you some awards.

Don't limit your post only when you enter the battle map, since to fight a battle, lots of thing occurred before and after the battle. Treat this thread like a repor, report up to every unit, but don't be too serious, that may hurts your human brain:

1. Previous occupation of the settlements which produce the kind of troops that fight those battle,
2. the recruitment of them, what is the first purpose of recruitment,
3. cost of maintenance and transporting to the site,
4. their fighting career,
5. their retirement upon a new reform,
6. looking back to see did they do a good job like the first purpose of their recruitment.

Here I go first:
In my newest SPQR campaign, I occupied 2 settlement in Spain, they are Allied States, I recruited some javelin native units replace Roman Leves, also I have 2 Getikoi Hippotoxotai as mercenaries.
Carthage attacked me in Sicily, but Sicily was well defended, but Spain was not because of 1 Roman army is very expensive to maintain which was in Sardinia. Then I decided to attack a small Carthage's force in Spain before they send an army.
This is the battle:
Me (full unit, newly recruited)

• 1 Eqvites Consvlares (19 years old worthless general)
• 2 Neizes
• 2 Cateramuniti
• 2 Getikoi Hippotoxotai

vs
AI (full 162 soldiers/unit)

• 2 Dorekim Afirqim
• 1 Noshei-Hanit Lubiyim
• 2 IItirsk Zaniak (iberian medium swordmen)

Eqvites Consvlares right wing, Neizes, Cateramuniti center form single line, no skirmish mode, guard mode on, except general, they are at at the battle map
Getikoi Hippotoxotai no formation just run first, shot arrow at iberian medium swordmen,
Meanwhile AI holded their usual formation but was forced to attack because 1 unit of iberian medium swordmen have only 70 men left when they engage my main line
The rest of the battle you should have guessed:

1. they run to reach my battle line, so they are tired
2. heavy hoplites attack my weak center but they got pin down
3. 2 unit of iberian medium swordmen vanished because of missile
4. All my cav make a full charge.

Result: they lost everthing, my casualties only came from friendly fire.
I disbanded 3/4 of roman standard legion, from there I used skirmisher in my standard legion which was lighter, faster, and really cheap but after countless battle, I can say they are way stronger than a bunch of heavy meat.
The trick is to lure enemy troops into your defensive missile line. Bring Scorpion, long range unit, consider straight line fire like Ligurian, Balearic, slingers, as heavy crossbowmen in middle and late game, in early game you can consider them as artillery. 200 kills/ battle is a normal thing if you put them in center of a line of missile unit with no skirmish mode and guard mode on like above with space between unit for the unit handle themselves, you may lose a lot of slinger, big deal.

[ntabc2001]

here is the recreation of that battle

[ntabc2001]

here is the recreation of that battle

picture
https://drive.google.com/file/d/16wn...ew?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1OqO...ew?usp=sharing

[eyelurker]

Many of my battle i just use infantry as anvil and cavalry as hammer. If the enemy didn't attack i just lure them by attacking their cavalry. If the enemy didn't bring high command general and elite unit i could just charge them gaulish style and broke them before battle truly began l. Litteraly all infantry and cavalry work although the heavier they are the more effective they performed

If i use full stack cavalry i also use anvil and hammer(although it's more of a two pronged attack) but with added bonus i can ram my cavalry deep into enemy formation to distrupt their formation and wreck their morale although i can cause significant cavalry casualties if the enemy didn't break fast enough.

[Sar1n]

Since many hellenistic factions have limited access to good heavy lancer/melee cavalry, my tactics with them revolve around phalanx and massive artillery support. Since I don't have active campaign right now, I'll be showing it on custom battle-Ptolemaic royal army vs. elite Roman legion (10x Cohors Evocata, supported by Antesignani, Scorpions and Equites Auxillum), hard difficulty.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Initial deployment. Cavalry withdrawn to the back to protect against any flanking operation, along with reserve Thorakitai:


The diagonal firing solution I use to avoid friendly fire is visible here:


Crispy bodies show effectiveness of the bombardment as the legion routs after flanking assault by cavalry and Peltenai.


Final kill score of the artillery. Over 800 troops-full four cohorts-wiped out by artillery, and probably as many routed by the demoralizing effect of flaming ammunition.

[ntabc2001]

If i use full stack cavalry i also use anvil and hammer(although it's more of a two pronged attack) but with added bonus i can ram my cavalry deep into enemy formation to distrupt their formation and wreck their morale although i can cause significant cavalry casualties if the enemy didn't break fast enough.

What a coincidence l, I am using full stack cavalry right now in a Carthage campaign, with a little tweak, the anvil consists of light javelin horsemen and hammers are elephants. I disagree with the idea of ramming the anvil or two pronged attack and uses of close combat cavalry as line anvils. Reasons are i can’t charge 20 different units, even if i can, a lot of horse will stuck and die, animal cruelties are unacceptable, and in the whole world of EBII there are like 10 or 20 lancer charger type of cav, chariots, elephants , all are expensive and rare, the rest are javelins throwers cavs.

Clearly AI can use full stack of cav better than I can, they don’t have fear of losing horses, they even use cav to fight in siege, yesterday I was besieged and lost against 2 stack of Numidian, mainly because of their annoying javelins and rocks.

Sum it up, I think cheap troops as fodder are essential while a smaller number of the most handsome men takes all the glory is a good tactic. Beware though, AI is very good at handling a messy two pronged attack

[ntabc2001]

Your phalangites seem to be badly wounded, too bad, in a campaign I bet it would be more devastating since all hellenistic’s neighbors has long range attack tradition: Italian’s pilum thrower, Balearic, Liguria, Illyrian’s slingers, eastern archery, horse archery, elephant riders, fast Getai javelins cavalry.
I think I would only uses 2 units of phalangites/ full 20 units stack, give the 2 units a little more support so they can fight with their pike instead of dying like fodder because of some rocks.

[eyelurker]

Since many hellenistic factions have limited access to good heavy lancer/melee cavalry, my tactics with them revolve around phalanx and massive artillery support. Since I don't have active campaign right now, I'll be showing it on custom battle-Ptolemaic royal army vs. elite Roman legion (10x Cohors Evocata, supported by Antesignani, Scorpions and Equites Auxillum), hard difficulty.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Initial deployment. Cavalry withdrawn to the back to protect against any flanking operation, along with reserve Thorakitai:


The diagonal firing solution I use to avoid friendly fire is visible here:


Crispy bodies show effectiveness of the bombardment as the legion routs after flanking assault by cavalry and Peltenai.


Final kill score of the artillery. Over 800 troops-full four cohorts-wiped out by artillery, and probably as many routed by the demoralizing effect of flaming ammunition.

Hippakontistai are always a cheap expandable option for hellenic fodder cavalry. After thorakitai reform they are replaced with something similiar but much stronger and still expandable but no longer cheap.

But to be fair most of the time my go to cavalry in europe is thracian and illyrian and in asia xystophoroi.

[eyelurker]

What a coincidence l, I am using full stack cavalry right now in a Carthage campaign, with a little tweak, the anvil consists of light javelin horsemen and hammers are elephants. I disagree with the idea of ramming the anvil or two pronged attack and uses of close combat cavalry as line anvils. Reasons are i can’t charge 20 different units, even if i can, a lot of horse will stuck and die, animal cruelties are unacceptable, and in the whole world of EBII there are like 10 or 20 lancer charger type of cav, chariots, elephants , all are expensive and rare, the rest are javelins throwers cavs.

Clearly AI can use full stack of cav better than I can, they don’t have fear of losing horses, they even use cav to fight in siege, yesterday I was besieged and lost against 2 stack of Numidian, mainly because of their annoying javelins and rocks.

Sum it up, I think cheap troops as fodder are essential while a smaller number of the most handsome men takes all the glory is a good tactic. Beware though, AI is very good at handling a messy two pronged attack

Have to do a bit of micromanage but yeah i tend to divide up between cheap cavalry that just charge from the front and expensive heavily armored cavalry that do the flanking after that if the enemy general is dead or weak and enemy unit are also weak i use my cheap cavalry to push into the middle to enemy formation which tends to casue enemy to rout.

It work best if you play as nomad though because they have a large cavalry reserve and your infantry tend to be more of a burden as nomad anyway while despite roman have their equites, carthage have their libyan and greek have their hippakontistai they are much better used working with infantry rather than full stack cavalry.

Elephant is a bit weird choice though for full stack cavalry or just any army as they are too slow and somewhat fragile for their price. They do i admit have niche use as anti cavalry, everytime cavalry face off against elephant they die so quick that by the time they rout it usually about 10-20 numbers which also means elephant are devastating against general bodyguard.

[Sar1n]

Your phalangites seem to be badly wounded, too bad, in a campaign I bet it would be more devastating since all hellenistic’s neighbors has long range attack tradition: Italian’s pilum thrower, Balearic, Liguria, Illyrian’s slingers, eastern archery, horse archery, elephant riders, fast Getai javelins cavalry.
I think I would only uses 2 units of phalangites/ full 20 units stack, give the 2 units a little more support so they can fight with their pike instead of dying like fodder because of some rocks.

I've been stretching that battle a bit to give more time to artillery before executing the final strike and had a couple of near breakthroughs that I had to fix with Peltenai. But that happened because the army was unrealistically loaded with elite legionaries.
This kind of casualties isn't really crippling, I'd just shorten the line for next engagement. I generally use the elite army to trigger a decisive battle by besieging the enemy capital. Afterwards, it's usually just a mop-up.

[LordBlades]

The tactic I most naturally seem to gravitate towards, and it works brilliantly is hammer &anvil with ranged 'pull':

Use a couple (2-4) long ranged archer/slinger/artillery units to 'pull' the enemy. Once they reach 3-4% casualties they will attack you even if they are on the defensive.

Use infantry to pin the enemy line.

Use cavalry to attack the flanks/rear of the engaged enemy. If the enemy also has significant cavalry, just hold your own back until they commit theirs, as they often like to frontally charge your line instead of trying to flank.

[ntabc2001]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

​

Has anyone tried to put a big gap between battle line? In later period, general put a lot of gap for cannon and charging.

[Cleitus the Pink]

Common sense is the most useful tool against the unbelievably stupid AI that can barely form a proper battle line. So most of the time, making and holding a proper line against the clustered AI infantry is the way to go.

[Shoebopp]

Because we armchair generals have a bird's eye view of the battlefield, and can instantly telepathically beam commands into the minds of our soldiers, we can turn every battle into a Cannae. Just form a bare minimum line of heavy infantry to match the enemy's heavier yet clumsier frontline, and use your excess troops to destroy the enemy's wings and complete the envelopment.

[ntabc2001]

Let us talk about charging.
How does a massive charge work?
How to deal with projectiles and cavs's harassment?
How are elephants, shieldless lancers, cataphracts used in charge?
Is it necessary to break their defensive position first then charge or let them stay in one place to do a straight charge (spare the ambush part for another thread)?
Can a slow army charge at faster ones? Should a line of Hastati charge Numidian skirmisher (with some light troops of course)? When do Hastati throw?

Comparation of notable and insignificant real battle (any era, even modern time with planes), especial battles that have bad general, normal, insignificant battles, you can see easily what did they miss, why did they fail.

[eyelurker]

Apparently in real life some people could cycle charge in the middle of formation, most likely during the lull of battle(which is not exist in total war) the infantry will open the middle of their formation to let either cavalry,chariot or elephant charge or skirmish to the middle of enemy formation.

You can't nor need to do that in total war because flanking and routing enemy is much easier and more simple to do

[Roma_Victrix]

That's +1 rep to the OP for bringing up a cool neat new topic!

Apparently in real life some people could cycle charge in the middle of formation, most likely during the lull of battle(which is not exist in total war) the infantry will open the middle of their formation to let either cavalry,chariot or elephant charge or skirmish to the middle of enemy formation.

You can't nor need to do that in total war because flanking and routing enemy is much easier and more simple to do

Great points! I almost never lose offensive or defensive sieges since the M2TW AI is traditionally terrible at handling those things (yet EBII defensive siege armies tend to be very aggressive and proactive in sending men outside the city gates to harass your siege engines, which I think is pretty awesome).

However, field battles can be a little tricky at times. In field battles, I have a very standard way of flanking a much larger enemy force while defending terrain. I usually never bother to invade another territory unless I have two full stack armies: (1) one custom-made for besieging and occupying settlements with lots of heavy infantry for scaling walls, a decent governor family member, and often with artillery for knocking down a wall section or destroying an enemy gate, and (2) a more flexible, mobile field army specially tailored with larger amounts of cavalry and missile units.

After goading the enemies to appear by placing my field army into enemy territory and ending one turn, sometimes the enemy AI has two or three full stack armies that pop out of the woods and decide to attack my one full stack army all at once. Usually that's quite intimidating, but actually, for me, this is where the fun begins.

In offensive field battles, I usually only choose to face one army and just pulverize them with blitzkrieg hammer-and-anvil encirclement tactics. In a defensive field battle like the one described above, however, it's a big mistake to leave your army in the center of the field. Learning a lesson from the AI, place your entire army either along the side of the map on high terrain or better yet a corner of the map to eliminate any or most chances for the AI to flank you from behind. Line up all heavy and medium melee infantry in a bent formation in the shape of an arrowhead so that the enemy AI has difficulty attacking one big battle line. As mentioned above in the OP, set skirmishers and missile troops on guard mode and order them to stay put instead of fleeing from nearby enemies in skirmish mode. Have one or two missile units pepper the first enemy cavalry or infantry who approach but limit this to a few volleys, then reserve your ammunition with fire-at-will mode turned off. Save the ammo for when the bulk of the enemy army comes into shooting range. Save enough ammo to shoot at enemy cavalry skulking about in the rear, since they can be an annoying headache for pulling off a flanking maneuver, whereas enemy infantry are much easier to route with enough force from pinning and cavalry charges.

To pull off a proper flanking maneuver, remember to keep one or two infantry units in reserve in the rear. When the enemy AI has inevitably thrown most of its melee infantry units from its 2 or 3 full-stack armies at your arrowhead-shaped double-sided front lines, surprise the enemy by moving your reserve infantry unit(s) into a flanking position on either your left or right depending on terrain and how the enemy army approached you. Use this infantry unit(s) to shield the movement of your cavalry right behind them, allowing you to send your cavalry right behind the massive combined enemy force. Remove guard mode from all infantry units and select them to attack specific enemy units that are already pinned. Smash one side of the enemy AI army from behind with all your cavalry. That should automatically send half the AI units into flight and allow you to pick them off with your cavalry as prisoners of war, so long as surviving enemy cavalry aren't harassing yours. In that case the rest of the units should be easy to deal with so long as you have enough surviving melee infantry to now concentrate all forces on the surviving enemy AI infantry on either your right or left flank.

Works like a charm every time!