Coronavirus as a special test for all humanity (philosophical article)

[conon394]

and I think in order to achieve some real progress we need to look into wisdom of our ancestors, where finance class typically belonged to separate caste from rulers and could exert very minimal influence on politics.

That's actually a very funny bit of nonsense provide an example please. Also you known there a vague whiff of something in that statement that I really hope you are not implying. Also of 3 only one of Blackrock, Vanguard and Raytheon fall into the financial class

[basics]

I disagree. Modern "system" on which the world is built on is barely a few centuries old. If it came to be, then it can be removed. In the end, "modern way of living" is simply just a few bankers, tech oligarchs and corporate CEOs being parasites over everyone else. Privately owned business ventures aren't a problem, but vile monstrosities like Blackrock, Vanguard and Raytheon certainly are and should be abolished. Rich people don't have a "right to rule", and I think in order to achieve some real progress we need to look into wisdom of our ancestors, where finance class typically belonged to separate caste from rulers and could exert very minimal influence on politics.

Heathen Hammer,

No, rich people don't have a right to rule so you are quite right there. Unfortunately the people who do rule even in our democracies somehow appear to acquire great wealth themselves and yet who put them there? You mention time in the past as being more beneficial but was it? Then it was landowners and Kings and Princes who held sway, the rest being in subjection to them until the Industrial Revolution opened up the potential for people to make something of themselves. The alternative we saw in the Russian and Chinese Revolutions and where has that got them? Those peoples are now ruled by very rich men replacing what was there before. It is what it is yet it was never meant to be that way but alas we now live in a fallen world and it appears to be getting worse, not better. The sooner the Lord Jesus returns the better.

[conon394]

So HH seem to be silent, when was this grand time when financial wealth was kept in check and everyone sang kumbaya?

[basics]

So HH seem to be silent, when was this grand time when financial wealth was kept in check and everyone sang kumbaya?

conon394,

It's like the title to an old song namely, " The Impossible Dream. "

[Heathen Hammer]

That's actually a very funny bit of nonsense provide an example please.

Only mere centuries ago Europe was ruled by organic aristocratic elites, as opposed to finance class today.
The problem with rule of finance class it it runs countries like they are corporations, where everything but profit margins takes the backseat, as a result you have cultural and social decline, leading to catastrophic calamities and wars, that result with ruling class facing, um, some gnarly times. Then process starts again.

Heathen Hammer,

No, rich people don't have a right to rule so you are quite right there. Unfortunately the people who do rule even in our democracies somehow appear to acquire great wealth themselves and yet who put them there? You mention time in the past as being more beneficial but was it? Then it was landowners and Kings and Princes who held sway, the rest being in subjection to them until the Industrial Revolution opened up the potential for people to make something of themselves. The alternative we saw in the Russian and Chinese Revolutions and where has that got them? Those peoples are now ruled by very rich men replacing what was there before. It is what it is yet it was never meant to be that way but alas we now live in a fallen world and it appears to be getting worse, not better. The sooner the Lord Jesus returns the better.

Wealth of the Western nations has been acquired due to hard work and technological know-how of Western people, while transition of power from organic aristocratic elites to finance class has been a disaster for Western civilization, as "new" economic elites simply use positions of power to generate profits through wars, and ruthless exploitation of both people and nature. All the Lenins, Hitlers and Stalins in our recent history would have never been able to do what they did, had it not been for this rule by finance class and its economic materialist reductionism.
You simply can't build society on economics only.

[basics]

Heathen Hammer,

So, what do you suggest to be done keeping everyone equal in its transition?

[conon394]

Only mere centuries ago Europe was ruled by organic aristocratic elites, as opposed to finance class today.
The problem with rule of finance class it it runs countries like they are corporations, where everything but profit margins takes the backseat, as a result you have cultural and social decline, leading to catastrophic calamities and wars, that result with ruling class facing, um, some gnarly times. Then process starts again.

That is some serious BS there HH.

"organic aristocratic elites" What does that even mean? So basically you just don't like the current wealthy elites and want a different form of wealthy elites to control the wealth and rule the have nots. And in a system that generally had lower social mobility.

Also yep societies run by organic aristocratic elites never had disastrous wars or decline - nope...

[Heathen Hammer]

So, what do you suggest to be done keeping everyone equal in its transition?

I think systems should be in place to prevent private financial interests from influencing state matters.
With that in mind, overall society is overdue for some changes, primarily the fact that society can't function if only measure of success is economics. Given that we live in times of massive wars, wholesale destruction of nature and human culture, this is a pretty good reason to believe that in the future, our times will be viewed as some kind of dark age.

So basically you just don't the current wealthy elites and want a different form of wealth elites to control the wealth and rule the have nots. And in a system that generally had lower social mobility.

That's not what I said at all, so I guess there is no need to reply since you are having a conversation with yourself while quoting a part of my post for some reason.

Also yep societies run by organic aristocratic elites never had disastrous wars or decline - nope...

Yeah, in those horrifying times we didn't destroy the planet's environment, have wars that caused tens of millions of casualties, average worker was working less, while being payed more on average, people back then were so missing out because they didn't have reality TV and iphones.

[conon394]

Yeah, in those horrifying times we didn't destroy the planet's environment

Lacking the scale and lifespan to do that, not for lack of trying. Ask say the Sumerians they did fine job on their agricultural land.

have wars that caused tens of millions of casualties

Err again populations size, but I'm pretty sure the Gauls and people in the 30 years war, or at the wrong end of war with the Mongols or Assyria would beg to differ if you believe their was nice war.

average worker was working less, while being payed more on average

Really do tell with some data. Because outside a couple times I can count on one hand that is BS. The less work kinda depends on whitewashing out women children and forced labor (and family labor difficult to quantify in general) but sure give me a good example.

people back then were so missing out because they didn't have reality TV and iphones.

Perhaps the they failed to notice while being oppressed by organic aristocratic elites

[basics]

To find HH's utopia one has to look to the cause wherein must lie the answer to what he sees as a problem in that life appears so unfair. If one happens to be a Darwianist, there is no answer because the fittest always win. If one happens to be a Biblical based Christian as I am the problem of inequality lies in man's disbelief and disobedience to God. From both these angles there isn't an answer for life on this planet. The earliest Christians sold all that they had to share out amongst their fellows so that none were in poverty but as the church grew that didn't last long and is evidenced by what we see today. Man's problem is man himself.

[Heathen Hammer]

The elephant in the room is that it is silly to present modern-day-liberal-democratic-global-freedom-market-central-banking thing to be "normal", since it existed for barely above a century, laughable time period by historical scale, but in that time period atrocities committed in the name of various materialistic ideologies caused more death then history has seen on any scale before.
But I understand the typical modern liberal progressive mindset here. Maybe those hundreds of millions that were killed for things like equality and democracy were a necessary sacrifice to bring the modern-day utopia so that people can live better lives?
Well, not really.
Modern-day wagie is de-facto worse-off then medieval peasant. So all of those sacrifices were... for nothing.
So there, we have it - our time, for all intents and purposes, is the Dark Age, objectively worse then the times back when we were ruled by absolute monarchies from every point of view imaginable. Which is why the ongoing pinko flu pandemic proves that there is very little point in preserving modern governments and economic institutions. There is simply no real value in either them or elites that use them to stay in power.

[AqD]

Of course, their economic growth slowed down, but at the same time, human lives were not endangered. Human life is above all, and this must be known in any state.

How did you get that idea?

Of 7 billion humans, how many of them can proudly claim they have positive contribution to their country's healthcare infrastructure and bio research necessary to fight the virus? Did they help make any equipment? Did they pool enough money through the tax to afford them?

And what about state with neither capability nor wealth to fight it? What kind of redistribution scheme could possibly work, without obviously free handouts?

Poor people complain about rich people, poor countries complain about rich countries, and everyone thinks their otherwise useless life is worth the latest and most advanced development which was made despite of them.


I'd rather save bees. Bees are endangered. Humans breed like rats anyway and they'll come back.

[basics]

Gentlemen and women,

Throughout time Biblically there has always been buying and selling as well as borrowing plus interest to be paid back. In all that time mankind has been confronted by plagues and warfare and it is the very same today. There are two dangers that we have to confront, Coronavirus and now the resurgence of the Taliban as if the world needed any more. How does HH intend to deal with that?

[Derc]

There are much more, and much worse problems than just Coronavirus and the Taliban coming our way. And it will lead, once more, to...

Throughout time Biblically there has always been buying and selling as well as borrowing plus interest to be paid back.

...this

It's all one funny cycle, honestly. Mankind simply does not learn.

[AqD]

Gentlemen and women,

Throughout time Biblically there has always been buying and selling as well as borrowing plus interest to be paid back. In all that time mankind has been confronted by plagues and warfare and it is the very same today. There are two dangers that we have to confront, Coronavirus and now the resurgence of the Taliban as if the world needed any more. How does HH intend to deal with that?

Why do we even see them as problems?

We don't have to fight plagues. We die, the rest survive and continue to breed and replenish the dead. Or do you expect everyone enjoy a happy life until 100? Even Jesus wouldn't promise that.

Taliban is not on resurgence. They won already. None of our countries started as happy humane republics and it's already proven US and the international community are not willing to win by whatever means necessary, so the shortcut option is out.


A virus that kill only 1-2% of humans and a stable cooperative regime are both acceptable. Let's not forget US used to enslave blacks - should that government be destroyed for that?

What's changed is that people are now being sold ridiculously high expectation on media and at the same time they are either unwilling to or incapable of earning it - I have no doubt if aging can be stopped most humans today would start crying loudly for those treatment and calling aging inhumane, that a few privileged are devils for not giving everyone immortality.

[Heathen Hammer]

Gentlemen and women,

Throughout time Biblically there has always been buying and selling as well as borrowing plus interest to be paid back. In all that time mankind has been confronted by plagues and warfare and it is the very same today. There are two dangers that we have to confront, Coronavirus and now the resurgence of the Taliban as if the world needed any more. How does HH intend to deal with that?

1) Coronavirus pandemic wouldn't be as bad if it wasn't for corruption and greed of Western ruling classes, that simply exploited it to gain more power and wealth at the people's expense. I like the idea of replacing the ruling classes (bankers, corporations, intelligence community, politicians, etc.) and seizing their wealth as a form of reparations to population of those countries as well as expenses on fixing consequences of their rule.
2) Taliban is just something significant majority of Afghans evidently wanted. Best thing that could be done would be to separate it between Southern half, where core of Taliban support resides among Pushtun population, and Turkic Northern half which is more secular and might as well have its own government or join Russian sphere of influence with other Central Asian states.

[basics]

Heathen Hammer,

Coronavirus came by the way of a communist government infecting its own people and quickly spreading across the world. If it weren't for our scientific medical manufacturers acting quickly by government instruction the deaths across the world would have been much worse. So, it is thanks to these conglomerates in that field that we have restrained the virus's killing power.

As far as the Taliban are concerned we now see that they are in control of the whole country putting women there back into servitude once again. These are the people that want to dominate the world with their false religion and so the world is a much more unsafe place because of that. Do you when espousing equality want your country to fall under that kind of control? Would you want your mother, sister, daughter to live in a world like that?

[Heathen Hammer]

Heathen Hammer,

Coronavirus came by the way of a communist government infecting its own people and quickly spreading across the world. If it weren't for our scientific medical manufacturers acting quickly by government instruction the deaths across the world would have been much worse. So, it is thanks to these conglomerates in that field that we have restrained the virus's killing power.

Actually it is other way around: we'd be in the clear long time ago, if representative democracy system did not allow for corporate oligarchy to ferment itself, and have corrupt politicians regulate on behalf of pandemic profiteers in big pharma and other industries. Corporations made tremendous profits form this, so they should be blamed for many things.

As far as the Taliban are concerned we now see that they are in control of the whole country putting women there back into servitude once again. These are the people that want to dominate the world with their false religion and so the world is a much more unsafe place because of that. Do you when espousing equality want your country to fall under that kind of control? Would you want your mother, sister, daughter to live in a world like that?

Again, it is pretty clear that this is something majority of Afghanistan wanted. Plus with globalist elites being so prone to pedophilia and warmongering, do they have that much moral highground over Taliban? Only difference between someone like Tony Blair and Taliban warlord is that latter partakes in combat, while the former is cowardly sending others to die for his interests.

[basics]

Heathen Hammer,

So, Coronavirus didn't come from China? China by the way is not a democracy yet it has adopted very well to the capitalist system making it perhaps the strongest economy in the world. Therefore are you suggesting that our pharmaceutical companies paid for China to make this virus and test it on the world's populace?

I don't think any leader of a Western country takes lightly having to send men and women to fight terrorism especially as we've experienced it first hand. The cowards are those Islamic leaders who send suicide bombers to blow up men, women and children going about their business whilst they hide away in the mountains or elsewhere of their countries.

[Heathen Hammer]

Heathen Hammer,

So, Coronavirus didn't come from China? China by the way is not a democracy yet it has adopted very well to the capitalist system making it perhaps the strongest economy in the world. Therefore are you suggesting that our pharmaceutical companies paid for China to make this virus and test it on the world's populace?

I don't think any leader of a Western country takes lightly having to send men and women to fight terrorism especially as we've experienced it first hand. The cowards are those Islamic leaders who send suicide bombers to blow up men, women and children going about their business whilst they hide away in the mountains or elsewhere of their countries.

Ummm, the post above your literally states what I am suggesting here:
"we'd be in the clear long time ago, if representative democracy system did not allow for corporate oligarchy to ferment itself, and have corrupt politicians regulate on behalf of pandemic profiteers in big pharma and other industries. Corporations made tremendous profits form this, so they should be blamed for many things."

It were neoliberal elites that simp for Chinese regime and that allowed for this to happen. They don't care about how many people die or go broke, they just want to ensure maximum profits for themselves, nothing more. West is long overdue for some real political changes, as we can't really blame the masses for no longer viewing such governments as legitimate.

Also the real cowards are politicians that sent Western soldiers to die in a pointless and unwinnable war. Some fanatical fundamentalist from Afghan mountains is a bad character, but politicians like Bush, Biden, Obama, Blair, Western intelligence brass as well as military-industrial complex executives are the real scum of the earth.