Page 1 of 5 12345 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 106

Thread: Female Christian activist attacked at ‘Speakers Corner’ (London)...

Hybrid View

Previous Post Previous Post   Next Post Next Post
  1. #1
    Axalon's Avatar She-Hulk wills it!
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Sverige
    Posts
    1,224

    Default Female Christian activist attacked at ‘Speakers Corner’ (London)...

    The Facts and basic context:

    In 25th July (2021), at Hyde parks iconic ‘Speakers Corner’ (London) - ex-muslim (apostate), high-profile Islam critic and Christian activist Hatun Tash was attacked stabbed and cut by a currently unknown assailant. The result was not lethal, yet dramatic and bloody and she was later escorted by police to a hospital to treat the resulting slashes and cuts to her face and arm. She has previously been active at Speakers Corner regularly and often under dramatic forms, especially in her interactions with Muslims. She have aside from her public criticism of Islam, also played a part in forwarding evidence proving that the Koran are in fact not a single and unison book - but rather an entity of multiple different books in terms of both varying content and meaning. Thus shattering the old Islamic claim that the Koran is a singular, eternal and perfectly preserved scripture - due to its claimed divine origins. According to traditional Islamic mythos the Koran are the verbatim words of Allah, and have remained so since day 1. If Islamic tradition is to be believed – this evident variance is impossible - yet by methodically comparing page by page, from start to finish the dissimilarities becomes undeniable and evident. The core Islamic claim of a singular Koran is thus evidently false. Hatun Tash have certainly played a part in highlighting that circumstance (see YouTube). Naturally, this sort of activity has further vexed her relation to the Islamic faithfuls, beyond an already strained relation prior to that. At this point, no formal arrests have been made and thus the assailant remains free and unidentified, according to Scotland Yard…


    For Reference

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-preacher.html

    https://www.newsweek.com/suspect-who...-large-1614088

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_the_Quran


    My stance/take on this event is

    1. The act was deliberate and planned. As anything else strike me as highly unlikely, on general terms. The other alternative is simply not credible (to me) – given the place, target and context.
    2. The motive is obviously related to Islam somehow. It makes clear sense, adds up all over, and it corresponds well with most ideas and doctrines in the Islamic sources. After all, Islam does not tolerate criticism or apostates very well (see hadiths and Korans).
    3. The attack has (probably) deliberate symbolical dimensions that go beyond the obvious target (Hatun Tash). After all, it happened in Speakers Corner and thus should probably be read as an attack upon freedom of speech in general, as well. In addition, it is also a deliberate attempt to silence further criticism of Islam at the Speaker’s Corner and elsewhere in general – goes without saying. Again, familiar tools such as violence, attacks, death threats and intimidation are deployed whenever Islam is targeted or threatened somehow. There are many examples of this in the past, related to Islam. There is no reason what so ever to believe this instance was/is any different.
    4. There is a permanent and fundamental conflict between core Islamic ideals and doctrines (see Korans and hadiths) and the western secular world and its freedoms that defines it. This entire event can be seen in light of that - as yet another expression and bloody example of that very conflict. I would argue that this event will probably only underline and escalate that conflict, and making it ever harder to ignore (on general terms).


    Alright, react, reflect and discuss my stance on this event…

    - A
    Last edited by Axalon; August 03, 2021 at 03:52 PM. Reason: Clarity & typos...

  2. #2
    antaeus's Avatar Cool and normal
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Earth
    Posts
    4,763

    Default Re: Female Christian activist attacked at ‘Speakers Corner’ (London)...

    Hear ye... hear ye...

    One crazy person attacks another for some random reason that has nothing to do with anything other than their own lack of mental faculties...

    In other news... The internet was surprised again today as yet another person sought to use a random act of violence to make a broader point against something they don't like.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB MARENOSTRUM

  3. #3

    Default Re: Female Christian activist attacked at ‘Speakers Corner’ (London)...

    Quote Originally Posted by antaeus View Post
    Hear ye... hear ye...

    One crazy person attacks another for some random reason that has nothing to do with anything other than their own lack of mental faculties...

    In other news... The internet was surprised again today as yet another person sought to use a random act of violence to make a broader point against something they don't like.
    It isn't yet known what the motive was.



  4. #4
    Cookiegod's Avatar Civus Divus Ex Clibane
    Citizen

    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    In Derc's schizophrenic mind
    Posts
    4,260

    Default Re: Female Christian activist attacked at ‘Speakers Corner’ (London)...

    uhm, it's kinda obvious what the motive was.
    Quote Originally Posted by antaeus View Post
    Hear ye... hear ye...

    One crazy person attacks another for some random reason that has nothing to do with anything other than their own lack of mental faculties...

    In other news... The internet was surprised again today as yet another person sought to use a random act of violence to make a broader point against something they don't like.
    Walk me through your reasoning if you don't mind. Do you think that moderate islam doesn't exist, so no one's allowed to talk about radical islam as a problem without it being an attack on ALL muslims as a default? Or do you think that radical islam doesn't exist?

    How classy of you to implicitly victim blame "another crazy person" btw.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cookiegod View Post
    From Socrates over Jesus to me it has always been the lot of any true visionary to be rejected by the reactionary bourgeoisie
    Qualis noncives pereo! #justiceforcookie #egalitéfraternitécookié #CLM

  5. #5

    Default Re: Female Christian activist attacked at ‘Speakers Corner’ (London)...

    Quote Originally Posted by Cookiegod View Post
    uhm, it's kinda obvious what the motive was.

    Walk me through your reasoning if you don't mind. Do you think that moderate islam doesn't exist, so no one's allowed to talk about radical islam as a problem without it being an attack on ALL muslims as a default? Or do you think that radical islam doesn't exist?

    How classy of you to implicitly victim blame "another crazy person" btw.
    The circumstantial evidence pointing in a particular direction doesn't establish the motive. It certainly wouldn't be unusual to discover that the perpetrator was suffering from mental illness or drug abuse.



  6. #6

    Default Re: Female Christian activist attacked at ‘Speakers Corner’ (London)...

    Quote Originally Posted by antaeus View Post
    Hear ye... hear ye...

    One crazy person attacks another for some random reason that has nothing to do with anything other than their own lack of mental faculties...

    In other news... The internet was surprised again today as yet another person sought to use a random act of violence to make a broader point against something they don't like.
    Nobody living in Europe, Asia, or Africa would be surprised by this event, or think this was a "random" attack by a crazy person. Nobody except for the ultra-privileged, that is.
    There is a certain clientele that sees any brown person campaigning for Christianity or against Islam as a race traitor.


    Quote Originally Posted by Cope View Post
    It certainly wouldn't be unusual to discover that the perpetrator was suffering from mental illness or drug abuse.
    Certainly, but these factors only tend to produce anti-Christian, anti-Jewish or anti-European hate crimes in combination with a certain religious and cultural origin.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Female Christian activist attacked at ‘Speakers Corner’ (London)...

    No arrest yet (AFAIK), so technically the assailant is unknown, though even the more 'prominent' dawah guys from Speaker's Corner acknowledge the likelihood that the knifeman was a muslim.
    Tash has been physically attacked there a couple of times recently (punched or slapped and had a 'holey' quran (as in holes drilled in it) taken from her and had a chair pulled out from under her).
    IIRC the police have removed her from the park previously for her safety, and warned her that there are people who want to kill her.

  8. #8
    Axalon's Avatar She-Hulk wills it!
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Sverige
    Posts
    1,224

    Default Re: Female Christian activist attacked at ‘Speakers Corner’ (London)...

    Quote Originally Posted by antaeus View Post
    One crazy person attacks another for some random reason that has nothing to do with anything other than their own lack of mental faculties...
    I see that the attempts to trivialize and downplay what has happened didn’t take long to materialize here… “…some random reason that has nothing to do with anything…" Such utter drivel…

    Quote Originally Posted by antaeus View Post
    In other news... The internet was surprised again today as yet another person sought to use a random act of violence to make a broader point against something they don't like.
    There was nothing random about this at all, and even suggesting such a thing strike me as deeply dishonest. As much as some folks here would like to deny it - for ideological reasons, I guess - this attack was deliberate and had obvious ideological/religious motives and overtones. The (unarmed) female target is an established high-profile Islam-critic and Christian activist on the London scene (who has been providing rock solid and decisive evidence that there are multiple different Korans in use and in service in the world today. Thus shattering the old Islamic myth of a singular, eternal and perfectly preserved koran of supposed divine origin). She was furthermore also attacked at - what is the closest thing there is to any hallow/sacred ground for most “free speech”-folk in the UK (and beyond) – the symbolical aspect of that very circumstance is massive. This attack was made on her because of who she is, and because what she has done, and despite she was unarmed and despite she was at Speaker’s Corner…

    To wear a knife at Speaker’s Corner is very much a deliberate and planned act, to use that knife to attack and stab a specific person - whose activities you disapprove of, for ideological/religious reasons - is also a deliberate act. To flee, after the deed is done - as to escape the likely consequences of that very attack is also a conscious and deliberate act as well. In short, there was nothing random about all this - at all - it was deliberate and intentional all the way. To say that it has "nothing to do with anything" is not only dishonest but also clearly false. Rather, it is obvious that it had everything to do with each other - all parts of it. Personally, I will happily disregard any PC-considerations or the fact that none of this will easily lend itself to any desired or precious PC-narratives manufactured by the (leftist) establishment. Its just the way things are, plain and simple. Once we start to deny things as they are, due to some sorry PC-considerations - we are venturing down an extremely dangerous and thoroughly regrettable path.


    ***

    Anyhow, what’s not to dislike about all this? An ideological/religiously motivated and self-entitled moron, cowardly attacks an unarmed woman - with a knife – at speakers corner because she has the courage and “indecency” of not conforming to, and speaking up against Islam and its ridiculous and vile ideals. It’s totally the stuff that I can dislike and disapprove of any day, folks. Naturally, I will also dislike any attempts (implicit or explicit) to excuse or diminish this vile and cowardly attack (that on sheer general principle)... Imagine that…

    - A
    Last edited by Axalon; July 27, 2021 at 03:12 PM. Reason: Details...

  9. #9
    Axalon's Avatar She-Hulk wills it!
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Sverige
    Posts
    1,224

    Default Re: Female Christian activist attacked at ‘Speakers Corner’ (London)...

    Quote Originally Posted by Infidel144 View Post
    Tash has been physically attacked there a couple of times recently (punched or slapped and had a 'holey' quran (as in holes drilled in it) taken from her and had a chair pulled out from under her).
    It is all just so wretched and low... No class at all...

    Quote Originally Posted by Infidel144 View Post
    IIRC the police have removed her from the park previously for her safety, and warned her that there are people who want to kill her.
    I recently learned/read that she was essentially removed because of a horde of screaming Muslims who clearly didn't like what she had to say... Rather then to disperse these screaming Muslims - the "brave" London PD chose to remove Hatun instead.... PC-crap at its finest and a general loss of integrity for secular society, I would say... More power to her, me thinks...

    - A

  10. #10
    antaeus's Avatar Cool and normal
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Earth
    Posts
    4,763

    Default Re: Female Christian activist attacked at ‘Speakers Corner’ (London)...

    Quote Originally Posted by Axalon View Post
    I see that the attempts to trivialize and downplay what has happened didn’t take long to materialize here… “…some random reason that has nothing to do with anything…" Such utter drivel…
    - A
    A single incident can not establish a trend. There can't be a trend of 1 incident. So I can only treat this as random. As such, nothing about it should be discussed as representing any broader context without introducing evidence of that broader context. I'm sure there is plenty of violence committed by people who profess to follow Islam. I watch the news. I see violence all over the show. But in this specific case, one incident with little context doesn't prove anything about anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by Axalon View Post
    There was nothing random about this at all, and even suggesting such a thing strike me as deeply dishonest.
    Then introduce other incidents into the conversation so we can discuss it as a trend. Even better - give us some statistics to discuss. You're throwing a lot of emotion at me, but try to move beyond weasel words. Incidents that show beyond doubt that this one incident is representative of more. Until then the only response I can give is: "I feel sad for the person who was attacked and wish them well, and the person who attacked them should seek help - perhaps through that help we can discover the physiological or psychological reasons for them choosing violence" Otherwise, the assault is meaningless in a broader context. It's not a case of "This Muslim is bad so all Muslims are bad" or a case of "this Muslim is bad so some other Muslims are bad" or even "This Muslim is bad, but most others are not". It might even be a case of "this Muslim suffers from a mental disorder that has led to symptomatic violent outbursts" i.e. Nothing can be drawn from it. It is regrettable as an incident, but nothing deeper than that.

    Now if you're posting this to talk about how people can be violent, and justify it by all manner of religious belief, then that's another conversation - that's a conversation about how people interpret the things they read and believe. But in this, Muslims (of what ever kind), Christians, Buddhists and what ever all are capable of bad things in the name of their religion. As are atheists in the name of their lack of religion. This conversation would be more about how people will find what ever excuse they can to justify the violence they commit, and that violence tends to beget more violence when it erupts on a societal level - and religion can play a key role in justifying violence for those who partake, and it can provide an excuse for others to join in. It could even be a conversation about how religious texts tend to be interpretable, making them very flexible for use as justification, and that a great many religious documents (including Islamic) do include justifications of violence paradoxically alongside calls for peace. That could be a great conversation.

    Is that the conversation you want to have?
    Last edited by antaeus; July 27, 2021 at 11:31 PM.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB MARENOSTRUM

  11. #11

    Default Re: Female Christian activist attacked at ‘Speakers Corner’ (London)...

    Yeah, you can't make a trend out of one incident and as we know it there was never ever an attack in UK that was motivated by Islam. /facepalm

  12. #12
    antaeus's Avatar Cool and normal
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Earth
    Posts
    4,763

    Default Re: Female Christian activist attacked at ‘Speakers Corner’ (London)...

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    as we know it there was never ever an attack in UK that was motivated by Islam. /facepalm
    Don't hurt your face for no reason... Note the first paragraph of my post, where I say "I'm sure there is plenty of violence committed by people who profess to follow Islam"

    I'm not disagreeing (or agreeing). I just want better debates.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB MARENOSTRUM

  13. #13
    Axalon's Avatar She-Hulk wills it!
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Sverige
    Posts
    1,224

    Default Re: Female Christian activist attacked at ‘Speakers Corner’ (London)...

    Quote Originally Posted by antaeus View Post
    A single incident can not establish a trend. There can't be a trend of 1 incident. So I can only treat this as random. As such, nothing about it should be discussed as representing any broader context without introducing evidence of that broader context. I'm sure there is plenty of violence committed by people who profess to follow Islam. I watch the news. I see violence all over the show. But in this specific case, one incident with little context doesn't prove anything about anything.

    ... ... ...
    Your numerous attempts (in post:11) to re-define or re-invent the topic of this thread is starting to annoy me. This thread is not about any damned trends or anything else you suggested it should be about. Nor have I ever suggested it would be. It is about an attack at Speaker’s Corner on a high-profile Islam-critic that was attacked because she has the courage to speak up and take a stance against Islam – much unlike many (if not most) others these days. Now she has been stabbed and cut with a knife, because of her activities, because of her stance, this at Speakers Corner. It not just an attack on her person – it is an attack on freedom of speech as well, and an attempt to thru (cowardly) violence try to silence (warranted) criticisms of Islam, on top.

    Islam is essentially fine with all this (see hadiths and Korans), while the traditional western secular world is not (see all 6 fundamental freedoms, essentially defining it). There is a conflict there and this event is an expression of all that, or so I would argue. We can discuss that conflict - if you like - but there is not really much to talk about. After all, this is hardly up for much debate as it is a matter of established facts. If in doubt, check the Hadiths and Korans, and then compare that to the 6 fundamental freedoms that defines the western secular world and see what conclusions jumps out of all that (if examined soberly and honestly, that is). This is not rocket-science folks.

    If you still want to hold the opinion that I merely use this incident to voice my dislike towards Islam, fine, so be it. However, explain yourself and your reasoning for all other to see (including me) - and above all, explain - why is that possible aspect more important or relevant to highlight here - then the actual event, in all its ugliness? Exactly what is gained and achieved by that, according to you? If you seriously believe that any of this has nothing to do with Islam, then by all means provide your basis for that contention. Let me and others see it, and let’s hear you explain why all that is. Otherwise, accept that this is related to Islam somehow, at some level. Why? Because that is the most probable, rational and obvious explanation available to us, given what is known to us (about all this) at this point. Just from watching the OP’s video-clip, one can figure that much out. Basically everything seems to suggest it – and, it adds up, too. If you have studied the doctrines and ideas of Islam - you will understand this. If not - do so - or accept the fact that others have (including me, for instance).

    Obviously, there are many other horrible cases related to Islam (somehow), and I doubt that anyone (sane or serious) will ever question that - the evidence for it is so ridiculously overwhelming, for reference - see youtube (or rather its counterparts these days), wikipedia and the news-channels are filled with it, almost daily (depending on the mediahouse, of course). So, initiating a debate over all that seems rather pointless - the conclusion is already a given. In order to not drown in all that, we instead confine this thread to this particular incident to make things easier for all. In my view, this event is certainly worthy of both reaction, reflection and discussion of its own (regardless of other events).

    - A

  14. #14
    alhoon's Avatar Moderator
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Chania, Greece
    Posts
    23,034

    Default Re: Female Christian activist attacked at ‘Speakers Corner’ (London)...

    Opening Post improved, thread re-opened.
    alhoon is not a member of the infamous Hoons: a (fictional) nazi-sympathizer KKK clan. Of course, no Hoon would openly admit affiliation to the uninitiated.
    _______________________________________________________
    Beta-tester for Darthmod Empire, the default modification for Empire Total War that does not ask for your money behind patreon.

    Developer of Causa Belli submod for Darthmod, headed by Hammeredalways and a ton of other people.
    Developer of LtC: Random maps submod for Lands to Conquer (that brings a multitude of random maps and other features).

  15. #15

    Default Re: Female Christian activist attacked at ‘Speakers Corner’ (London)...

    Since the Bible tells women to learn in silence and never to teach men maybe it was a Christian who attacked her for trying to teach Muslim men about the Bible?
    The Armenian Issue
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/group.php?groupid=1930

    "We're nice mainly because we're rich and comfortable."

  16. #16

    Default Re: Female Christian activist attacked at ‘Speakers Corner’ (London)...

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    Since the Bible tells women to learn in silence and never to teach men maybe it was a Christian who attacked her for trying to teach Muslim men about the Bible?
    By that logic Jeffrey Epstein and certain members of British Royal family must be muslims.

  17. #17
    Axalon's Avatar She-Hulk wills it!
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Sverige
    Posts
    1,224

    Default Re: Female Christian activist attacked at ‘Speakers Corner’ (London)...

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    Since the Bible tells women to learn in silence and never to teach men maybe it was a Christian who attacked her for trying to teach Muslim men about the Bible?
    Fat chance… The church of England have had female priests ordained for almost 30 years – zero such attacks have happened since – it is even more implausible that such attacks would originate from some sort of Christian anger because a female evangelist was preaching traditional Christian ideas to Muslim men. The proposition is as unserious and ridiculous as it gets. Next…

    - A

  18. #18

    Default Re: Female Christian activist attacked at ‘Speakers Corner’ (London)...

    Quote Originally Posted by Axalon View Post
    Fat chance… The church of England have had female priests ordained for almost 30 years – zero such attacks have happened since – it is even more implausible that such attacks would originate from some sort of Christian anger because a female evangelist was preaching traditional Christian ideas to Muslim men. The proposition is as unserious and ridiculous as it gets. Next…

    - A
    Maybe she was omitting the part where as a female Christian she's not supposed to teach any male. We've had a crazy mother before that beheaded her baby because Jesus told him so. So, its not exactly implausible. Given how we know very little of what happened to this person anything goes.
    Last edited by PointOfViewGun; August 02, 2021 at 05:48 AM.
    The Armenian Issue
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/group.php?groupid=1930

    "We're nice mainly because we're rich and comfortable."

  19. #19
    Sir Adrian's Avatar the Imperishable
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Nehekhara
    Posts
    16,089

    Default Re: Female Christian activist attacked at ‘Speakers Corner’ (London)...

    Except that female Christians have been preaching to Christian men in Britain for over 30 years with 0 attacks/threats/etc and other denominations that only allow ordained male priests to preach have a policy of "just don't pay any attention and walk away".
    Under the patronage of Pie the Inkster Click here to find a hidden gem on the forum!


  20. #20

    Default Re: Female Christian activist attacked at ‘Speakers Corner’ (London)...

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Adrian View Post
    Except that female Christians have been preaching to Christian men in Britain for over 30 years with 0 attacks/threats/etc and other denominations that only allow ordained male priests to preach have a policy of "just don't pay any attention and walk away".
    I'm not sure about the bolded part:

    Real life 'Vicar of Dibley' steps down after arsonist's hate campaign
    The woman vicar targeted by a vicious hate campaign stepped down from her post last night.
    The Rev Yvonne Hobson is taking a temporary leave of absence to relieve 'the considerable pressure' on her and her family.
    Mrs Hobson's decision came after she was subjected to a second arson attack within weeks.
    In the latest incident on Wednesday, someone forced open the window of her car and threw in a burning candle after choir practice at Paul Church in Cornwall.
    It is thought only the wet weather prevented the silver Mercedes from catching fire.
    The incident mirrored a previous attack - also after choir practice - in which a burning candle was left in a basket of logs on the porch of her Ł350,000 home in Newlyn.
    The campaign against Mrs Hobson started in June when she began to receive a string of letters expressing hatred for women priests.
    The Armenian Issue
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/group.php?groupid=1930

    "We're nice mainly because we're rich and comfortable."

Page 1 of 5 12345 LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •