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Thread: Retro Remix!

  1. #1
    ThatOtherGuy's Avatar Tiro
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    Default Retro Remix!


    Hola peeps! So here is a fun WIP that I am doing in my free time for M2TW that I wish to share! The simple explanation of what this mod is pretty simple: It's a reshuffle of the unit roasters in the game to make them a bit more interesting and balance out some of the unit progression. By no means is this a historical mod for that matter, mainly because I design things and balance them around gameplay first and whether or not the unit or faction in question has an actual level of use in it. So don't expect me to get things to your historical liking to it.

    The basis of this mod came from after playing AOE 2 DE for a while and coming back to Retrofit Grand Campaign. After playing some of it I just continued to tinker with things till... well this all came along. So without further ado, let me lay down what I have in a series of screen shots and written word!

    Sicily

    Removed: Armoured Sergeants
    Removed: Sergeant Spearmen
    Removed: Sword and Buckler men
    Added: Muslim Spearmen (new unit)
    Added: Norman Serjeants (new unit)
    Added: Pikemen

    Changed: Norman Knights (both mounted and dismounted) can now upgrade to full plate

    WHY: I started off with Sicily because it was probably one of the more interesting factions to play with. I wanted to emphasize the idea that Sicilyís roster is a cosmopolitan mix of Normans, Italians, and Arabs. To reflect that I downplayed a little bit of the traditional spearman progression and instead added a new Arab themed one. I removed sword and buckler men and instead added the axe wielding serjeant because I saw that in AOE 2 DE and thought it was cooler. I also added in Pikemen to give them a different defensive unit.

    Venice
    Removed: Dismounted Men at Arms
    Added: Venetian Men at Arms (new unit)
    Reworked: Italian Men at Arms (cavalry) now is an actual progression of the Feudal Knight. It by no means competes with Chivalric Knights but they are now not useless.
    Reworked: Broken Lancers are now Elmeti. They have small shields and mailed horses and perform slightly better. No longer recruited at the city walls. Can upgrade to advance plate.
    Changed: Venetian Archers have 1 additional defense skill.
    Changed: Venetian Heavy Infantry have their attack increased from 7 to 9. Their charge is increased from 3 to 5.

    WHY: If Milan felt defensive oriented with all of itís crossbows, then Venice is the more aggressive one. It has a larger infantry selection compared to its neighbor while having numerous melee answers to various units. Cavalry? Armored Sergeants. Dismounted Knights? Venetian Heavy Infantry. Both? Venetian Men At Arms. But in turn they have inferior archer selection and they do miss out on a super heavy cavalry unit.

    Milan
    Removed: Dismounted Men at Arms
    Removed: Dismounted Broken Lancers
    Added: Milanese Axemen (new unit)
    Added: Volguier
    Reworked: Italian Men at Arms (cavalry) now is an actual progression of the Feudal Knight. It by no means competes with Chivalric Knights but they are now not useless.
    Reworked: Broken Lancers are now Elmeti. They have small shields and mailed horses and perform slightly better. No longer recruited at the city walls. Can upgrade to advance plate.

    WHY: Milanís roster feels slightly more defensive oriented now. With excellent crossbowmen, Volguiers, spears and dismounted feudal knights, they can hold any position. In comparison to their neighbor Venice, they have a little less in cavalry production but make it up with having some super heavy cavalry. The Milanese Axemen is also a fun early unit that can shake things up on the battlefield.

    Hungary
    Removed: Dismounted Feudal Knights
    Removed: Slave Levies
    Added: Balkan Levies (new unit)
    Added: Magyar Swordsmen (new unit)
    Changed: Chivalric Knights and Royal Banderium have their shield value increased from 5 to 6. Cost has been adjusted aswell.
    Changed: Dismounted Chivalric Knights have had their shield value increased from 5 to 8.
    Changed: Bosnian Archers have had their combat capabilities improved a bit and their range increased. They can also upgrade to light mail.

    WHY: To keep up with the idea of mediocre infantry but good cavalry, I removed the dismounted feudal knight spam fest and the boring slav levies and added a new early infantry unit and swordsmen. They should feel more at home with Hungary and give them also a cheaper infantry alternative. The cavalry changes was due to the annoyance of somehow having less shield defense despite being full sized shields.

    Poland
    Removed: Strzelcy
    Added: Obuch Infantry (new unit)
    Added: Obywatel Crossbowmen (new unit)
    Changed: Polish Retainers are now rolled into the Stables line.
    Changed: Lithuanian Cavalry now rolled into the Stables Line.
    Changed: Hussar only available at the city.

    WHY: Strzelcy I felt like was too strong of a unit to start out for Poland. Iíll probably bring it back later but for now itís gone. Poland now gets a new foot crossbowman, a hybrid stats between the regular crossbow and pavise crossbowmen. The Obuch Infantry also helps fill out itís infantry roster with a good two handed unit armed with a poleaxe.

    Russia
    Removed: Druhizna
    Removed: Dismounted Druhizna
    Added: Svet Cavalry (new unit)
    Added: Rus Infantry (new unit)
    Changed: Boyar Sons are no longer a skirmish unit. They are now heavy melee cavalry. They also have two armor upgrades instead of 1.
    Changed: Dismounted Dvor changed to Muscovite Archers. New model, same stats.
    Changed: Brand new textures for Russian units.

    WHY: Russiaís early game was boring and needed a new coat. The Svet provides Russia some form of melee cavalry and the change to the Boyar provides a healthy upgrade in the fortress. The Rus Infantry allows for more flexibility in itís infantry roster by not being an exact clone of dismounted Boyars. The change to dismounted Dvor was for purely cosmetic reasons to add more visual variety in the late Russian Army.

    Denmark
    Removed: Mounted Huscarls
    Removed: Viking Raiders
    Removed: Dismounted Feudal Knights
    Added: Norse Spearmen (new unit)
    Added: Norse Raiders (new unit)
    Added: Dismounted Chivalric Knights
    Changed: Norse Axemen are now named Huscarls.
    Changed: Norse Swordsmen have been buffed to replace Dismounted Feudal Knights.
    Changed: New regional model for the Vikings, much like how Scotland is.

    WHY: Denmark had way too many armor piercing units and a very lopsided power spike early game. I added new Viking spearmen to help give Denmark some anti cavalry units early on and decreased their cavalry power with a new lighter version of mounted huscarls.

    That's the progress of stage 1 for now. So here are some screenies!

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Norman Serjeants


    Muslim Spearmen


    Venetian Men At Arms


    Elmeti


    Muscovite Archers







    Russian Armor Sets


    Rus Infantry




    Danish Viking Texture and Model


    Remember, everything is a work in progress and still up for change!

  2. #2
    ThatOtherGuy's Avatar Tiro
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    Default Re: Retro Remix!

    Alright another update! As I was going over the Holy Roman Empires I came across a problem that needed to be addressed in terms of game design: crossbowmen vs pavise crossbowmen. Long story short both units have the same stats now, it's just one has a useful shield and the other one doesn't. This allows factions like France, Denmark, and Hungary have some ranged competition without having to rely on mercenaries. Also stats have been buffed a little to make sure they are not utter crap in anything but defense sieges. Both as well have now another armor upgrade, allowing them to upgrade into partial plate. Screenies below!



    The Genoese Crossbowmen (not militia) also receives a unique touch up visually.


  3. #3

    Default Re: Retro Remix!

    What other units will u add? Why get rid of the dismounted units for some factions?

  4. #4
    ThatOtherGuy's Avatar Tiro
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    Default Re: Retro Remix!

    Quote Originally Posted by sullivanclan1 View Post
    What other units will u add? Why get rid of the dismounted units for some factions?
    It's still a WIP but I will be adding in other units. The point of this mod is a fun remix of everything, with more unique units that help round out factions without losing identity. The reason I got rid of some dismounted units it's because a lot of them are kind of boring and just a repeat of another unit in the roster.

  5. #5
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default Re: Retro Remix!

    Quote Originally Posted by ThatOtherGuy View Post
    WHY: I started off with Sicily because it was probably one of the more interesting factions to play with. I wanted to emphasize the idea that Sicilyís roster is a cosmopolitan mix of Normans, Italians, and Arabs. To reflect that I downplayed a little bit of the traditional spearman progression and instead added a new Arab themed one. I removed sword and buckler men and instead added the axe wielding serjeant because I saw that in AOE 2 DE and thought it was cooler. I also added in Pikemen to give them a different defensive unit.

    Poland

    Removed: Strzelcy

    WHY: Strzelcy I felt like was too strong of a unit to start out for Poland. Iíll probably bring it back later but for now itís gone. Poland now gets a new foot crossbowman, a hybrid stats between the regular crossbow and pavise crossbowmen.
    For Sicily, you may use a new building from our mod.

    For Strzelcy - good choice, it's really overpowered (and also not historical) for an early game.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Retro Remix!

    i see! What else will you do to make your submod great?

  7. #7
    ThatOtherGuy's Avatar Tiro
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    Default Re: Retro Remix!

    Quote Originally Posted by sullivanclan1 View Post
    i see! What else will you do to make your submod great?
    Well hopefully a remixed roster of units will refresh the gameplay a bit for newcomers without overpowering the original feel of the game like many bigger mods do. I mean, for example, If you loved playing Hungary in the original, Hungary will feel very similar, it's just some of civ's aspects have been expanded and refined a bit while the shakeup adds something new to play with. Also some of the unit balancing, such as I did with the crossbowman line, doesn't feel so jarring when you switch to different civs. This is all stage one at the moment. I have other plans for other stages but I want to nail down rosters first.

  8. #8
    ThatOtherGuy's Avatar Tiro
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    Default Re: Retro Remix!

    Alright a new update! So when I was working on the Holy Roman Empire roster, I decided to go back over my prior modifications for just quality control sake. It's when I noticed that the Brigandine armour texture set that I decided "you know what, this could look better". So I redid the brigandine model files into something nicer, adding in various helmet variations and updated faces.





    The first three (from right to left) are just brigandine while the other is a partial plate upgrade.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Retro Remix!

    Looks really nice! I hope to see more in the days come.

  10. #10
    ThatOtherGuy's Avatar Tiro
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    Default Re: Retro Remix!

    Hola peeps! Got another update for ya!

    So I finished working on the Holy Roman Empire and France. With the new brigandine armor set I was finally able to add new units that didn't look homogenous!

    HRE Changes:

    Units Removed:
    Armored Sergeants
    Dismounted Feudal Knights
    Feudal Knights

    Units Reworked:

    Imperial Knights
    Dismounted Imperial Knights

    New Units:

    Bavarian Lancers
    Bohemian Sergeants
    Armored Pikemen

    Summary: The HRE was difficult to sort of change because their identity was tied to two handed swordsmen and simply being just a generalist. So instead I changed them to be really good selection of basic infantry mixed with Germanic armor. As such they get Imperial Knights in the fortress now, but they start with heavy mail, upgrading to plate instead of dismounted feudal knights. They get the best spear and shield unit in the game, Bohemian Sergeants, with can upgrade to partial plate. Also because of the history of pike warfare with the Landskcents I gave them some pretty good armored pikemen. Much better than regular pikemen, but doesn't compete with top ends like Portugal or Scotland. Bavarian Lancers are a different take in that they have less armor than Feudal Knights, but have an armor piercing mace for melee to make up for it. All in all it should be pretty fun to play them now.

    France Changes:

    Units Removed:

    Sergeant Spearmen
    Feudal Knights
    Dismounted Feudal Knights
    Chivalric Knights
    Mounted French Archers
    Dismounted French Archers
    Adventurers

    Units Added:

    Frankish Knights
    Dismounted Frankish Knights
    Burgundian Mounted Crossbowmen
    Coustilliers
    Francia Axemen

    Summary: Alright this might piss some people off but I found France had absolutely no weaknesses in the late game and probably had one of the most overpowered militaries in the game. They had excellent longbowmen for some reason, mounted longbowmen, super good crossbowmen, very good infantry and super spammy heavy cavalry. Way too much for one faction. Instead I rebalanced it so they still have awesome cavalry, good infantry, but now passable archers. Segeant Spearmen have been replaced with Francia Axemen, slightly weaker Frankish axemen from the crusaders campaign. They get some really good mounted crossbowmen instead of mounted longbowmen, but no where near the overpowered polish shoots. Chivalric Knights and Feudal Knights are now one line with Frankish Knights and still are spammy. Coustilliers however are a super fun unique unit for France. Basically in actually hand to hand combat they're not that good, but they have an insane charge. They are the only cavalry unit in the game that has an armor piercing charge attack. So make sure they do a lot of hit and runs against heavily armored units!



    Bavarian Lancers (fully upgraded)



    Bohemian Sergeants (fully upgraded)



    Armored Pikemen (fully upgraded)



    Coustilliers (fully upgraded)



    Dismounted Frankish Knights



    Burgundian Mounted Crossbowmen (fully upgraded)



    Francia Axemen

  11. #11
    ThatOtherGuy's Avatar Tiro
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    Default Re: Retro Remix!

    Alright more updates!

    England

    Units Removed
    Armored Swordsmen

    Units Added
    English Foot Knights

    Units Reworked
    Heavy Billmen
    Heavy Bill Militia
    Retinue Longbowmen
    Longbowmen

    Summary: England was what I considered to be the hardest to remix, just due to the fact that their roster design was so good. However I did do a few little changes. First is the removal of Armoured Swordsmen and replaced them with English Foot Knights. It's a nasty melee replacement that's a load of armor piercing fun. Next was the Heavy Billmen line. Since the Bill was a polearm I decided that the heavy billmen should be an evolution of the regular billmen. Thus it went from using two handed axe animation to using the halberd one. It cannot however do a spearwall. The early longbowmen has had it's ranged shortened a bit so it's not too op in the beginning and the Retinue Longbowmen had it's recruitment pool shrunk, but it's defenses buffed. More of a situational unit than a spammy one.

    Scotland

    Units Added
    Lowland Raiders
    Scottish Knights
    Lochaber Axemen

    Summary: Scotland's roster is too limited in vanilla, so I expanded it a bit. Lowland Raiders are a javelin throwing skirmish unit that's good for early harassing. Scottish Knights are full plated knights that are on par with Portuguese Knights, giving them a little breathing room in the cavalry roster. And Lochaber Axemen are a new militia that can be trained at the town. Very good at defending settlements and being shocktroops.



    Lochaber Axemen



    Scottish Knights



    Lowland Raiders



    English Foot Knights



    New Heavy Bill weapons



    New Retinue Longbowmen Armor 1



    New Retinue Longbowmen Armor 2

  12. #12

    Default Re: Retro Remix!

    What other plans do you have for the mod?

  13. #13
    ThatOtherGuy's Avatar Tiro
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    Default Re: Retro Remix!

    Quote Originally Posted by sullivanclan1 View Post
    What other plans do you have for the mod?
    Stage 1, which this is, is to remix factions by adding units, removing units, rebalancing or reworking. Making factions feel a bit more unique and change progression to feel a bit more fun. This will probably last till I feel like feedback and quality are at a good enough point.
    Stage 2: rework mercenaries, textures or models for certain units, rework slave faction for more variety.
    Stage 3: rework the map, make it bigger and a bit more interesting.
    Stage 4: Add a few new factions to make the eastern side of the map more engaging to play with.

    That's it for the moment.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Retro Remix!

    What factions are you going to put in? Will u add more units to the eastern factions?

  15. #15
    ThatOtherGuy's Avatar Tiro
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    Default Re: Retro Remix!

    Quote Originally Posted by sullivanclan1 View Post
    What factions are you going to put in? Will u add more units to the eastern factions?
    I haven't thought too much about new factions at the moment, maybe Cumans, Armenians/Georgians, and another Middle Eastern Faction. Just 3 new factions.

    Anyways today's update!

    Portugal

    Removed
    Mailed Knights

    Changed
    Dismounted Portuguese Knights

    Added
    Latrones
    Partisan Sargentos
    Garrochistas

    Summary: Portugal is now the weirdo of the western european factions. Latrones replace Mailed Knights as early cavalry, but they are really powerful for what they cost and their stats with their light lances and axes. I added another infantry unit as another step in expanding their limited roster, the Partistan Sargento. They use the Hallbudder animation from Kingdoms and their an awesome pole arm unit to support your pikes! Garrochistas are a shared unit between Portugal and Spain and they operate as an elite light cavalry unit. The change to the dismounted Portuguese Knights is that they no longer have pole-axes but Iberian two handed swords. Gives them a little different flavor.

    Spain

    Removed
    Jinetes
    Almughavers

    Added
    Castillian Footmen
    Iberian Lancers
    Garrochistas

    Summary: If Portugal has an emphasis on light cavalry and skirmishers, then Spain has a bigger focus on heavier cavalry and more brute force directed infantry. Castillian Footmen are mace wielding infantry that can crush armor. Iberian Lancers are light but cheap early shock cavalry that is excellent for flanking. I though their roster was good in the beginning, but they shared too many things with Portugal. They do share Garrochistas with Portugal however.

    Moors

    Removed
    Sudanese Spearmen
    Granadine Lancers
    Christian Guard
    Dismounted Christian Guard
    Arab Cavalry
    Peasant Crossbowmen

    Added
    Moorish Swordsmen
    Andalusian Yahmi
    Gharbiun Cavalry
    Granadine Crossbowmen
    Tuareg Camel Spearmen (moved into the main stables line)

    Summary: Wow these guys got a really good rehaul. So the play style of the Moors is pretty much very light infantry and cavalry focus in the beginning, but in the late game they have some rocking armored units. Gharbiun Cavalry are just better cavalry than Garandine Lancers, Moorish Swordsmen are basically Chivalric Knights of the Moors, Granadine Crossbowmen are more inline with other crossbowmen stat wise, and Andalusian Yahmi are badass armoured cavalry archers. So to reiterate, they start off with great but lightly armored units in the beginning, but towards the end you get some armored heavy hitters. They should be super fun now.



    Andalusian Yahmi (fully upgraded)



    Gharbiun Cavalry (fully upgraded)



    Granadine Crossbowmen (fully upgraded)



    Moorish Swordsmen (fully upgraded)



    Latrones (fully upgraded)



    Partisan Sargentos (fully upgraded)



    Dismounted Portuguese Knights



    Garrochistas (fully upgraded)



    Castillian Footmen (fully upgraded)



    Iberian Lancers (fully upgraded)

  16. #16

    Default Re: Retro Remix!

    They Look really nice! Keep up the good work!

  17. #17

    Default Re: Retro Remix!

    This looks amazing! I love the idea

  18. #18
    ThatOtherGuy's Avatar Tiro
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    Default Re: Retro Remix!

    Hey guys just to end some radio silence, I have not abandoned this project. Some few real life obligations came up so that put things on hold for a week. So here is a sneek peak of what I am working on. Doing two new texture sets for both Muslim factions and soon to work on a Seljuk texture set for the Turks.




  19. #19

    Default Re: Retro Remix!

    Will you do anything with the mongols and timurids? Those two factions should be fixed to some degree. The Byzantines should be reworked too. Idk how to do any of that stuff.

  20. #20
    ThatOtherGuy's Avatar Tiro
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    Default Re: Retro Remix!

    Quote Originally Posted by sullivanclan1 View Post
    Will you do anything with the mongols and timurids? Those two factions should be fixed to some degree. The Byzantines should be reworked too. Idk how to do any of that stuff.
    Patience Iago... I'll get to them in due time. Right now doing stuff for Turks then Byzantines.

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