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Thread: Some impressions playing 47 turns as Seleucids in 2.35A R3.5

  1. #1

    Default Some impressions playing 47 turns as Seleucids in 2.35A R3.5

    My campaign setting was VH/VH.


    I would say that AI activity increased since my last playthrough in 2.35, this might be the result of the increased movement range that armies have, a surefire plus. I was pleased to observe active Carthage, it took Sicily and native Numidian lands close to Carthage proper, leaving Numidia with one settlement in the Algeria. It was also in a war with Rome which took Corsica from it, but in the 47th turn Carthage had two decent sized stacks on Corsica.

    Besides Carthage, Iberians were having a blast too. The Lusitani had three provinces in Iberia and they also held Morocco, while the Arevaci held the rest of Iberia plus western Gaul. Awesome.

    Gauls were their oldselves, the Aedui held additional two provinces in Normandy, while the Averni haven't expanded at all. However, the Boii were saving Celtic honour, by the 47th turn they held 6 regions in central and westen Germany. I have never before seen this active Boii, excellent. They were winning their war with Suebi, which was three province faction, but were actively sieging additional 2 rebel held regions. The Lugii was 4 regions function in Eastern Europe.

    Greeks were in the usual three way war, where KH held Thesalia, Macedonia held Corinth and Aitolia, while Epirus held Sparta. Epirus, probably through revolt and conquest, held Taras, Rhegion, Capua and Luceria. Needless to say, Rome was a big bummer. The team should seriously look into the Rome, and when controlled by the AI, make it menacing, the end game opponent that would offer a player the challenge in the late game, like the Mongols in the Stainless Steel.

    My campaign however, started easy and turned even easier at about turn 30. At turn 47, I've held 10 more settlements, taking Seleucids to 33 settlements. This all makes me 15k per turn ever since turn 30. I would like to stress that I wasn't blitzing, each army contained only one general unit. I suppose one can not expect a hard campaign with a faction which starts with 23 provinces, still the menu lists Seleucids as "very challenging", it should be changed to "easy". What really surprised me was the speed with which Seleucid economy came into the positive (5th or 6th turn) and stayed positive throughout, though I was selling map information for about 1.5k.

    Unfortunately, In my campaign CAI wasn't aggressive, Ptolomies especially. Namely, Pt had full stack near Side which didn't move to relieve the siege of Halikarnassos by me, even though it had enough movement points to do so. Eventually AI transferred that army (led by the FH) away from conflict via sea to Egypt. If I exclude the scripted siege of Damascus at the start of the campaign, Ptolemies haven't mustered a single offensive action against me, but they asked for ceasefire 5-6 times. There were two fun sieges against Pt, Akko and Alexandria. Also, it appears that possibility for general rebelion is pretty damn high, Ptolemies lost three general led armies to rebellion including army that spawned following my capture of Akko.

    Nabata, Armenia and Parthia also at one point declared war. Of those three, only Nabata was aggressive, that is sued for peace only after I've defeated their sieging army, while at one point Parthia was sieging three of my settlements, asked for ceasefire while still sieging and when I refused simply retreated. Armenia never mounted a serious effort at all. The lack of AI aggression and high rebel spawn rate influenced my decision to quit the campaign.

    Still, there are improvements over previous version: AI vs. AI is more active, javelins do look more effective, the mod team slowly coming to terms of changing the size of cavalry units which at one point I've suggested, sieges when there is proper garrison present are real fun.

    The lack of faction in the Balkans is highly observable, since I would like to see Kushite faction introduced and apparently Belgae is reserved to be added I would solve the Balkan faction either through switching Aedui to Scordisci maintaining the number of Celtic factions, or switch boring Hellenic faction of Pergamon into Illyrian one.


    BTW, shouldn't Antocheia Margiannes and Antocheia Arianna be named Alexandrias?



    If I have enough time I will tryout the one settlement faction to see what my experience with it would be.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Some impressions playing 47 turns as Seleucids in 2.35A R3.5

    With the new aggressiveness of the AI, the lack of a western Balkan faction is really visible. You get all kind of weird expansions in this area, now even more.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Some impressions playing 47 turns as Seleucids in 2.35A R3.5

    In the previous patch, I found out attempting to starve an AI settlement out instead of waiting only 1 turn worked out pretty well to get them aggressive, as they always would send an army to reinforce before the counter was up, if they could afford to do so. I highly recommend you try doing that.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Some impressions playing 47 turns as Seleucids in 2.35A R3.5

    I played with Seleucids in H/H until 219 BC in this patch and my experience has been rather similar. The campaign AI does seem to be better at achieving its goals thanks to the higher movement points. The Parthians were at first aggressive and declared war by besieging Antiocheia Margiannes but were driven off by the army I managed to send. (In time thanks to the higher movement points!) and drove them off. Unfortunately, the crown prince Seluekos was killed in that battle and so I had to punish the nomads harder than usual. I got a man of the hour to become commander of that army and marched to another giant battle near the Parthian capital in which I managed to kill off a whole horse arcehr/cataphract army using the classic Achaemenid tactic of mass archers/archer spearmen combined with the hellenistic phalanx(the perfect horse archer killer army) and then assaulted their capital and took it, enslaving it as a punishment for the death of Seleukos. Fun stuff. With that said, there are also problems. Passive enemy stacks just marching into your land for no reason and staying for years. It's as if the AI doesn't even recognize the fact that I didn't grant them military access. So that gets annoying when they declare war with their stacks already deep inside the empire. Another thing with the new campaign AI is that they continually make war for really no good reasons. The Sabeans kept declaring war and making peace every single turn for like 20 years... And with each peace I managed to cheese out 10k from them. Just silly and annoying. Overall, the experience has been better than the last patch though....

  5. #5

    Default Re: Some impressions playing 47 turns as Seleucids in 2.35A R3.5

    Quote Originally Posted by nvm View Post
    In the previous patch, I found out attempting to starve an AI settlement out instead of waiting only 1 turn worked out pretty well to get them aggressive, as they always would send an army to reinforce before the counter was up, if they could afford to do so. I highly recommend you try doing that.
    EB II has many problems, but its siege AI is good. In many mods AI sends its troops immediately to city center, in EB II it will fight for the walls. I do enjoy EB II sieges, assailing and defending. Alas, defending one happened only once.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Some impressions playing 47 turns as Seleucids in 2.35A R3.5

    Quote Originally Posted by Cleitus the Pink View Post
    ... Overall, the experience has been better than the last patch though....
    The mod team is improving EB II, VERY, very slowly, but it is happening. Two years ago QS outright rejected the idea of decreasing the size of cavalry units, a crucial thing for increasing cavalry maneuverability in M2TW (in EB a heavy cavalry can enter into charge animation and catch 100 model missile cavalry that just only started retreating). When I loaded R3.5 and saw a cavalry unit with less than 100 models, I was genuinely happy.

    Now the team needs to accept that fighting actual factions is where the fun is to be had in M2TW.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Some impressions playing 47 turns as Seleucids in 2.35A R3.5

    There will not be a kushite faction, nor should there be one.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Some impressions playing 47 turns as Seleucids in 2.35A R3.5

    Quote Originally Posted by Domeric_Bolton View Post
    There will not be a kushite faction, nor should there be one.
    You know something I don't?

  9. #9

    Default Re: Some impressions playing 47 turns as Seleucids in 2.35A R3.5

    Quote Originally Posted by Domeric_Bolton View Post
    There will not be a kushite faction, nor should there be one.
    Yeah, I believe the team has stated that they're not considering it, as it would take up it's whole own culture shot, for a faction that historically didn't expand much into the map area, and gameplay-wise would just be sandwiched between the enormous Ptolemies and Saba. Saba already fits the gameplay role of a faction that can put pressure on the Ptolemaic south.

    Belgae and an llyrian or Balkan Celt faction seem the most likely. Those areas are the most obviously 'empty' in the map and you could easily build their rosters from the pool of existing units.
    Quote Originally Posted by A.J.P. Taylor
    Peaceful agreement and government by consent are possible only on the basis of ideas common to all parties; and these ideas must spring from habit and from history. Once reason is introduced, every man, every class, every nation becomes a law unto itself; and the only right which reason understands is the right of the stronger. Reason formulates universal principles and is therefore intolerant: there can be only one rational society, one rational nation, ultimately one rational man. Decisions between rival reasons can be made only by force.





    Quote Originally Posted by H.L Spieghel
    Is het niet hogelijk te verwonderen, en een recht beklaaglijke zaak, Heren, dat alhoewel onze algemene Dietse taal een onvermengde, sierlijke en verstandelijke spraak is, die zich ook zo wijd als enige talen des werelds verspreidt, en die in haar bevang veel rijken, vorstendommen en landen bevat, welke dagelijks zeer veel kloeke en hooggeleerde verstanden uitleveren, dat ze nochtans zo zwakkelijk opgeholpen en zo weinig met geleerdheid verrijkt en versiert wordt, tot een jammerlijk hinder en nadeel des volks?
    Quote Originally Posted by Miel Cools
    Als ik oud ben wil ik zingen,
    Oud ben maar nog niet verrot.
    Zoals oude bomen zingen,
    Voor Jan Lul of voor hun god.
    Ook een oude boom wil reizen,
    Bij een bries of bij een storm.
    Zelfs al zit zijn kruin vol luizen,
    Zelfs al zit zijn voet vol worm.
    Als ik oud ben wil ik zingen.

    C am Fear am measg ant-sluaigh,
    A mhaireas buan gu brth?
    Chan eil sinn uileadh ach air chuart,
    Mar dhthein buaile fs,
    Bheir siantannan na bliadhna sos,
    'S nach tog a' ghrian an ird.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jrg Friedrich
    When do I stop being a justified warrior? When I've killed a million bad civilians? When I've killed three million bad civilians? According to a warsimulation by the Pentagon in 1953 the entire area of Russia would've been reduced to ruins with 60 million casualties. All bad Russians. 60 million bad guys. By how many million ''bad'' casualties do I stop being a knight of justice? Isn't that the question those knights must ask themselves? If there's no-one left, and I remain as the only just one,

    Then I'm God.
    Quote Originally Posted by Louis Napoleon III, Des Idees Napoleoniennes
    Governments have been established to aid society to overcome the obstacles which impede its march. Their forms have been varied according to the problems they have been called to cure, and according to character of the people they have ruled over. Their task never has been, and never will be easy, because the two contrary elements, of which our existence and the nature of society is composed, demand the employment of different means. In view of our divine essence, we need only liberty and work; in view of our mortal nature, we need for our direction a guide and a support. A government is not then, as a distinguished economist has said, a necessary ulcer; it is rather the beneficent motive power of all social organisation.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfgang Held
    I walked into those baracks [of Buchenwald concentrationcamp], in which there were people on the three-layered bunkbeds. But only their eyes were alive. Emaciated, skinny figures, nothing more but skin and bones. One thinks that they are dead, because they did not move. Only the eyes. I started to cry. And then one of the prisoners came, stood by me for a while, put a hand on my shoulder and said to me, something that I will never forget: ''Trnen sind denn nicht genug, mein Junge,
    Trnen sind denn nicht genug.''

    Jajem ssoref is m'n korew
    E goochem mit e wenk, e nar mit e shtomp
    Wer niks is, hot kawsones

  10. #10

    Default Re: Some impressions playing 47 turns as Seleucids in 2.35A R3.5

    As has been stated, Kush is a categoric no. We don't have the culture slots or additional map regions spare to make them a worthwhile faction choice.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Some impressions playing 47 turns as Seleucids in 2.35A R3.5

    Quote Originally Posted by QuintusSertorius View Post
    As has been stated, Kush is a categoric no. We don't have the culture slots or additional map regions spare to make them a worthwhile faction choice.
    What's wrong with an arid nomadism and just giving them Axum, or the other settlement?

  12. #12

    Default Re: Some impressions playing 47 turns as Seleucids in 2.35A R3.5

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Blob View Post
    What's wrong with an arid nomadism and just giving them Axum, or the other settlement?
    IIRC, Kush had a whole other unique culture that does not quite fit into any of the current cultures (Such as Arid nomadism, Eastern tribal etc...). Additionally, from a gameplay perspective most of Eastern Africa is not on the map so their expansion options are quite limited (Its either go north and face the mighty Ptolemaic Kingdom or go east and face the Saba and Nabateans), there just isn't enough variety to go around as far as factional opponents are concerned. From a historical perspective, most of Kush's history in the Hellenistic Period is as of now relatively unknown as well as insight into their southern neighbors. And BTW, Meroe would be a more fitting capital for the Kushites than Axum which was encompassed by a separate realm.

    The engine has a faction limit of around 30 and competition for the final few slots is fierce with several more worthy contenders bidding for those places I'm afraid....
    To fight and conquer in all our battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting.
    - Sun Tzu



  13. #13

    Default Re: Some impressions playing 47 turns as Seleucids in 2.35A R3.5

    Quote Originally Posted by realm56 View Post
    IIRC, Kush had a whole other unique culture that does not quite fit into any of the current cultures (Such as Arid nomadism, Eastern tribal etc...). Additionally, from a gameplay perspective most of Eastern Africa is not on the map so their expansion options are quite limited (Its either go north and face the mighty Ptolemaic Kingdom or go east and face the Saba and Nabateans), there just isn't enough variety to go around as far as factional opponents are concerned. From a historical perspective, most of Kush's history in the Hellenistic Period is as of now relatively unknown as well as insight into their southern neighbors. And BTW, Meroe would be a more fitting capital for the Kushites than Axum which was encompassed by a separate realm.

    The engine has a faction limit of around 30 and competition for the final few slots is fierce with several more worthy contenders bidding for those places I'm afraid....

    You're completely right. Aside from all that, I feel the need for factions like Kappadokia and Bithynia in Asia minor and factions like the kingdom of Paeonia and perhaps some Illyrian petty kingdom a LOT more than I feel the need for Kush. The Ptolemaic dynasty already has enough rivals and as you said, the Kush would be an oddball with not much room to expand. Aside from that there are other problematic regions in the game. The most problematic in my opinion being the Balkans and Dalmatia. Those regions sorely need their own factions to keep out the Hellens and the Getai from silly expansions as they do in every game. Kush is simply at the bottom of the list of proiorities.

  14. #14
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default Re: Some impressions playing 47 turns as Seleucids in 2.35A R3.5

    for fans of the Sudan/Nubia part of the world: playing Makuria in Broken Crescent gives a lot of fun!

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