View Poll Results: Which unit would you like me do do first?

Voters
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  • Halithoz (Germanic Heavy Infantry)

    0 0%
  • Hippeis Bosporitai (Bosphoran cavalry)

    2 15.38%
  • Basternai Draugai (Basternian Companions)

    0 0%
  • Ebess Toutas (Oscan Lancers)

    1 7.69%
  • Brateres Coso (Lusitanian Youths)

    0 0%
  • Parashim Maurim (Maure Cavalry)

    1 7.69%
  • Fayah Safyalatin (South Arabian Tribal Lowlanders)

    0 0%
  • Pondunes (Liguro-Corsi Slingers)

    0 0%
  • Katoikoi Thraikes (Thraikian Colonists)

    5 38.46%
  • Amossoi (Celtiberian Mercenaries)

    2 15.38%
  • Pantodapoi (Hellenised Levy Spearmen)

    1 7.69%
  • Hippeis Baktrioi (Baktrian Medium Cavalry)

    1 7.69%
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Thread: EB 2 In-Depth Unit Analyses

  1. #1

    Icon1 EB 2 In-Depth Unit Analyses

    In the years since EB2 has been around, there have been many a campaign guide posted in the fora detailing how a campaign should be approached, but with most only mentioning key units and their roles in passing, I want to change that. A poll will be posted with choices for which unit will have the honor of having the first of many in-depth unit analyses done for them. To start, which unit type would you like me to focus on? Is it the good, old infantry, the swift agile skirmisher or archer, or perhaps the all-mighty shock cavalry, whose charges scatters all before them?

    The analyses will be laid out roughly as follows:

    • Unit stats and abilities at a glance.
    • Tactical Assessment
    • Availability on the campaign map
    • Comparisons to similar units



    Voting results for the previous round:


    Voting for Round 9 of the In-Depth Unit Analysis has been completed and closed and the results are out!

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 






    We have tie, the Brateres Coso and Walidoz Knabaniz are tied for first place!


    Voting for the next unit:


    You will all now vote on the next unit that you want broken down and analyzed. This time, we present the following message:





    You will have until the 1st of October to cast your vote!


    Straw Poll Link:

    https://strawpoll.com/aszwgoruh



    Completed Analyses:

    Rounds 1 to 8 (30/7/2021 to 17/9/2021):

    Katoikoi Thraikes
    Hippeis Bosporitai
    Pantodapoi
    Aswar i Sakastan
    Carbantoi
    Amossoi
    Hippeis Baktrioi
    Hippotoxotai Baktrioi
    Ebess Toutas
    Parashim Maurim
    Thureopherontes Toxotai
    Triarii (Polybian)
    Toghrin Ordo
    Frisadruhtiz

    Zip File: EB 2 In-Depth Unit Analyses Rounds 1 to 8.zip

    Frisadruhtiz (Frisadruhtiz.pdf)

    Round 9 (17/9/21 to 24/9/21):

    Walidoz Knabaniz (Walidoz Knabaniz.pdf)
    Brateres Coso (Brateres Coso.pdf)

    That's all for now!
    Last edited by realm56; September 24, 2021 at 05:42 AM. Reason: Voting for Round 9 of the In-Depth Unit Analysis has been completed! Voting for Round 10 is now open.
    To fight and conquer in all our battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting.
    - Sun Tzu



  2. #2

    Default Re: In-Depth Unit Analyses

    Well will you look at that, Katakoi Thraikes is currently leading at 2 votes. STOP THE COUNT. Jokes aside, this is a really cool initiative. If you may could you also provide some in-depth historical background beyond what's there in the unit card descriptions?

  3. #3

    Default Re: In-Depth Unit Analyses

    Quote Originally Posted by Shoebopp View Post
    Well will you look at that, Katakoi Thraikes is currently leading at 2 votes. STOP THE COUNT. Jokes aside, this is a really cool initiative. If you may could you also provide some in-depth historical background beyond what's there in the unit card descriptions?
    As much as I would like to provide additional historical background for these units, I am no historian. I do agree with you that this is a cool initiative as there are a couple of the things that I want to do with this scheme, one of which is to bring some underappreciated units that many players overlook and give them a reason to be used (Some of said underappreciated are included in the poll). I may even do analyses for all the units in the poll, but I'm letting the fan-base choose the unit that will be done for the inaugural analysis. The other thing that I wanted to point out was that not as many players would know much about some of the new units that came out with EB 2.35A and its post-release patches (I will likely prioritize these units, they deserve some much needed love ).
    Last edited by realm56; July 16, 2021 at 01:29 AM.
    To fight and conquer in all our battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting.
    - Sun Tzu



  4. #4

    Default Re: In-Depth Unit Analyses

    I have uploaded a Straw Poll link to allow guests to vote, recent TWC traffic indicates that only a handful of full members will have voted by the time the poll expires, so cast your vote!
    To fight and conquer in all our battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting.
    - Sun Tzu



  5. #5

    Default Re: In-Depth Unit Analyses

    I wouldn't do either Katoikoi Thraikes or Pondunes first, simply because it's useless. Those are "if you can get them, use them, no question" kind of units.

  6. #6

    Default Re: In-Depth Unit Analyses

    Whoever voted for Pantodapoi, reveal yourself!

  7. #7

    Default Re: In-Depth Unit Analyses

    Quote Originally Posted by Shoebopp View Post
    Whoever voted for Pantodapoi, reveal yourself!
    Hellenikon, was that you friend?
    To fight and conquer in all our battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting.
    - Sun Tzu



  8. #8
    Domaje's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: In-Depth Unit Analyses

    Quote Originally Posted by Shoebopp View Post
    Whoever voted for Pantodapoi, reveal yourself!

    Actually you'll be surprised to know that pantodapoi are a formidable choice for garrisons. They have the best PO bonus/cost value of the game.

  9. #9

    Default Re: In-Depth Unit Analyses

    Voting for the unit to feature in the inaugural In-Depth Unit Analyses has officially closed! Katoikoi Thraikes has been chosen! Their analysis has been posted along with an additional bonus.

    Voting for the next unit to be done is now open! This time we take a trip to Khorasan and take a peek at the nomads that live in the area. Cast your vote on the straw poll (Link to the poll is in the opening post under the Voting for the next unit section), you have until the 6th of August to do so.
    Last edited by realm56; July 30, 2021 at 07:24 AM.
    To fight and conquer in all our battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting.
    - Sun Tzu



  10. #10

    Default Re: In-Depth Unit Analyses

    Quote Originally Posted by Domaje View Post
    Actually you'll be surprised to know that pantodapoi are a formidable choice for garrisons. They have the best PO bonus/cost value of the game.
    However, if your garrison is ever called upon to fight on the battlemap, no unit is better value for money than the Hoplitai Haploi.

  11. #11

    Default Re: In-Depth Unit Analyses

    Nice writeups! Only thing to add is that Katakoi Thraikes actually receive their armor upgrade after the Thorakitai Reforms, not the Celtic Twilight Reforms. Also, Katakoi Thraikes are also available in Histrie through a level 2 or above helcol

  12. #12

    Default Re: In-Depth Unit Analyses

    Quote Originally Posted by Shoebopp View Post
    Nice writeups! Only thing to add is that Katakoi Thraikes actually receive their armor upgrade after the Thorakitai Reforms, not the Celtic Twilight Reforms. Also, Katakoi Thraikes are also available in Histrie through a level 2 or above helcol

    • Histrie is the settlement located in the province of Mikra Skythia kai Pentapolis (I pretty sure I made that clear in the availability section of their analysis).
    • The Twilight reforms is actually the 2nd Celtic Panoply reform (That gives silver level armor to most high tier Keltoi units in Keltoi Lands), The 1st one occurs a bit before the Thorakitai reforms (I have observed Katakoi Thraikes, Ulatomarkakoi etc... getting the 1st armor upgrade (Bronze level armour) before 222BC).
    To fight and conquer in all our battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting.
    - Sun Tzu



  13. #13

    Default Re: In-Depth Unit Analyses

    Quote Originally Posted by realm56 View Post
    Hellenikon, was that you friend?
    Yes, I wanted to see if you would elaborate on their combat and non combat uses. I know a few myself but I am sure there are far more. One example, pantodapoi are great as underpaid workers for that settlement that you dont' want to abandon yet but want to keep the mnai flowing.
    I love these kind of marginalized units that have other uses than just straight up winning battles.

    edit: just noticed that you did the analysis already, so I will add my own ideas on how to use them.

    - Like I said, the most basic use is as garrison. This is for those settlements that you don't want to to let rebel, but also want to keep. So you need income > upkeep, and pantodapoi are great for that.

    - They can be used in battle, and their main selling point is their big shields (5). As you know shield value is much more effective vs missiles than armour, as it is doubled. So pantodapoi are pretty good as getting shot at, while avoiding other more fragile troops dying. How do you use this knowledge?
    You can use them agaisnt nomads to make them waste their ammo on them, while you use your own archers to kill the horsemen.
    They're great for carrying those siege rams, they'll get shot at and get to the gate thanks to their shields. Then it's over for them, give them a rest.
    While we are at sieges, they can capture the victory point while your main force is fighting.
    Another battle role is to tie up archers so they cannot shot at you, this is especially good in ambush battles. You can neutralise any missile unit by just engaging your pantodapoi with them, this is easily said than done, due to ranged units being faster.
    In the chaos of battle, pantodapoi can have their moment of glory by making a rear charge and breaking the morale of a wavering unit. Any unit can do this, even if it's harder for infantry.

    In short, they're a very good as a garrison unit, and useful when dealing with missiles thanks to their big shields and unit size.
    Last edited by Hellenikon; July 31, 2021 at 03:01 AM.

  14. #14

    Default Re: In-Depth Unit Analyses

    Quote Originally Posted by realm56 View Post
    • Histrie is the settlement located in the province of Mikra Skythia kai Pentapolis (I pretty sure I made that clear in the availability section of their analysis).
    • The Twilight reforms is actually the 2nd Celtic Panoply reform (That gives silver level armor to most high tier Keltoi units in Keltoi Lands), The 1st one occurs a bit before the Thorakitai reforms (I have observed Katakoi Thraikes, Ulatomarkakoi etc... getting the 1st armor upgrade (Bronze level armour) before 222BC).
    Ah, my bad. I forgot how to read for a moment

  15. #15

    Default Re: In-Depth Unit Analyses

    Quote Originally Posted by Hellenikon View Post

    - Like I said, the most basic use is as garrison. This is for those settlements that you don't want to to let rebel, but also want to keep. So you need income > upkeep, and pantodapoi are great for that.

    - They can be used in battle, and their main selling point is their big shields (5). As you know shield value is much more effective vs missiles than armour, as it is doubled. So pantodapoi are pretty good as getting shot at, while avoiding other more fragile troops dying. How do you use this knowledge?
    You can use them agaisnt nomads to make them waste their ammo on them, while you use your own archers to kill the horsemen.
    They're great for carrying those siege rams, they'll get shot at and get to the gate thanks to their shields. Then it's over for them, give them a rest.
    While we are at sieges, they can capture the victory point while your main force is fighting.
    Another battle role is to tie up archers so they cannot shot at you, this is especially good in ambush battles. You can neutralise any missile unit by just engaging your pantodapoi with them, this is easily said than done, due to ranged units being faster.
    In the chaos of battle, pantodapoi can have their moment of glory by making a rear charge and breaking the morale of a wavering unit. Any unit can do this, even if it's harder for infantry.

    In short, they're a very good as a garrison unit, and useful when dealing with missiles thanks to their big shields and unit size.

    • Regarding their use as meat-shields against nomadic horse and foot archers, they are less reliable in that role in post 2.35A compared to version 2.35 due to the altered missile mechanics introduced with the patch and general changes to lethality which is why I stated in my analysis that they should not be exposed to concentrated missile fire (RIP if said missile fire finds its way onto their unshielded flanks and rear). Nezagdar and Hai Nizagamartik would serve that role better with their higher shield values (6 and 7 respectively) and acceptable armor (3 and 4 respectively), the Nezagdar especally fits the bill as a meat shield unit for missile fire due to the fact that they also have 200 man units to complement their good shield and passable armor, however for the price of one these units, you can conscript 2 units of pantodapoi. Bear in mind that most nomadic armies are also accompanied by a good number of heavy cavalry which will tear the pantodapoi to pieces (They're pretty fragile to start with, even with that shield).




    • As for everything else mentioned here, I wholeheartedly agree without objection.
    To fight and conquer in all our battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting.
    - Sun Tzu



  16. #16

    Default Re: In-Depth Unit Analyses

    IMO the advice you give on the guide is not useful because it's too generic. I'm not going to quote verbatim but there was no clear guidelines on how to use them, which is what the thread claims to be. Seems to me useful only to see the recruitment AOR and the factions which can have it, rather than the comparisons. Telling how this unit has a bonus in snow and this one doesn't, isn't helpful advice. I attempted to give more concise advice on how to use that particular unit. You should talk about prices and upkeep, and formations and how to deploy them: pantodapoi won't be a good meatshield agaisnt arrows if you don't know how to deploy them. Anyway I'm not going to keep bothering you all with this, have a good evening.

  17. #17

    Default Re: In-Depth Unit Analyses

    Just a reminder that voting for round 2 of the EB2 in-depth unit analyses is only open for a couple more days. This time we take a trip to Khorasan and take a peek at the nomads that live in the area.

    You have the option to vote for the following to be done:


    • Tigrakhaucha Ashwabara (Pointed Hat Riders)
    • Mazsaka Baragata (Mazsaka Riders)
    • Aswar i Sakastan (Horsemen from Sakastan)
    • Daha Wazdatę (Dahan Nobles)



    Vote here:
    https://strawpoll.com/yf7bwyf5h/r

    Members and Guests alike are more than welcome to participate!

    Voting closes on the 6th August!
    To fight and conquer in all our battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting.
    - Sun Tzu



  18. #18

    Default Re: In-Depth Unit Analyses

    Voting for the unit to feature in Round 2 of the In-Depth Unit Analyses has officially closed! The Aswar i Sakastan has been chosen! Their analysis has now been posted.

    Voting for the next unit to be done is now open! This time, we will take a trip all the way to the other side of the world to the British Isles and take a peek at the inhabitants who call it home! Cast your vote on the straw poll (Link to the poll is in the opening post under the Voting for the next unit section), you have until the 13th of August to do so.
    To fight and conquer in all our battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting.
    - Sun Tzu



  19. #19

    Default Re: In-Depth Unit Analyses

    Screeching Women

  20. #20

    Default Re: In-Depth Unit Analyses

    Voting for the unit to feature in Round 3 of the In-Depth Unit Analyses has officially closed! The Carbantoi has been chosen! Their analysis has now been posted.

    Voting for the next unit to be done is now open! This time, we will take a peek at some of the meanest and greediest mercenaries the Mediterranean has to offer. Cast your vote on the straw poll for the unit you want me to hire for the week (Link to the poll is in the opening post under the Voting for the next unit section), you have until the 20th of August to do so.
    To fight and conquer in all our battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting.
    - Sun Tzu



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