View Poll Results: Which unit would you like me do do first?

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  • Halithoz (Germanic Heavy Infantry)

    0 0%
  • Hippeis Bosporitai (Bosphoran cavalry)

    2 15.38%
  • Basternai Draugai (Basternian Companions)

    0 0%
  • Ebess Toutas (Oscan Lancers)

    1 7.69%
  • Brateres Coso (Lusitanian Youths)

    0 0%
  • Parashim Maurim (Maure Cavalry)

    1 7.69%
  • Fayah Safyalatin (South Arabian Tribal Lowlanders)

    0 0%
  • Pondunes (Liguro-Corsi Slingers)

    0 0%
  • Katoikoi Thraikes (Thraikian Colonists)

    5 38.46%
  • Amossoi (Celtiberian Mercenaries)

    2 15.38%
  • Pantodapoi (Hellenised Levy Spearmen)

    1 7.69%
  • Hippeis Baktrioi (Baktrian Medium Cavalry)

    1 7.69%
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Thread: EB 2 In-Depth Unit Analyses

  1. #61

    Default Re: EB 2 In-Depth Unit Analyses

    Quote Originally Posted by mckeen View Post
    Are you using a different build? Fairly sure that I am playing as Epirus on R3.5 and I have the heavy version of the Hoplitai Lakedaimonos...
    Do you have them confused for Hoplitai Homoioi? I am sure that the Hoplitai Lakedaimonos lack a late version (spoilers: they don't have one).
    To fight and conquer in all our battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting.
    - Sun Tzu



  2. #62

    Default Re: EB 2 In-Depth Unit Analyses

    Yes, you are of course correct, I am getting the two units confused...

    But, am just in the in the middle of a long Epirus campaign and had Sparta as a closely allied Oligarchy since the early game and don't remember seeing the Hoplitai Lakedaimonos?? I may have missed them though...

  3. #63

    Default Re: EB 2 In-Depth Unit Analyses

    Quote Originally Posted by mckeen View Post
    Yes, you are of course correct, I am getting the two units confused...

    But, am just in the in the middle of a long Epirus campaign and had Sparta as a closely allied Oligarchy since the early game and don't remember seeing the Hoplitai Lakedaimonos?? I may have missed them though...
    Because for some strange reason you could only use Hoplitai Lakedaimonos around the time for Thorakitai reform which then will replace Hoplitai and Hoplitai Haploi

  4. #64

    Default Re: EB 2 In-Depth Unit Analyses

    The reformed lakedaimonians are avaliable for the kh player once lvl 4 farms (the 1st one avaliable at large city lvl). For the AI KH, the reform is randomly triggered between turns 140 to 200 IIRC.
    To fight and conquer in all our battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting.
    - Sun Tzu



  5. #65

    Default Re: EB 2 In-Depth Unit Analyses

    Do you have any good infantry tips?

    I'm having quite the trouble trying to use them to break enemy morale in situation where you don't have cavalry available in your army.

  6. #66

    Default Re: EB 2 In-Depth Unit Analyses

    Quote Originally Posted by Tactics Mayers View Post
    Do you have any good infantry tips?

    I'm having quite the trouble trying to use them to break enemy morale in situation where you don't have cavalry available in your army.
    Kill their general then find a way to flank them(missle for better damage) and their morale should easily shattered. Although i find if enemy had their general killed the enemy would have their morale low enough that many of them would break even without flanking.

    If dealing with enemy cavalry while you have none or little just let the cavalry charge your infantry but avoid being flanked. Cavalry doesn't survive long after engaging infantry unless one have such a large cavalry that the entire cavalry charge will break the infantry.

  7. #67
    Khevsur's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: EB 2 In-Depth Unit Analyses

    Which unit would you like me do do first?
    no one.
    When I play with the Kingdom of Pontus, I prefer to buy local Kartvelian warriors. The Pontic army consisted mainly of Kartvelian tribes.The Pontic and Kartvelian kingdoms were also allies.

    I want Colchian tribal warriors and Kartvelian shock cavalry. Details can be corrected on Kartvelian infantry, heavy and Greek armor can be replaced with lighter ones. Shields can also be replaced,
    Leave the horned helmet, it is beautiful and reflects the Kartvelian culture. There are also Information that the Kartvelian tribe - Chalybes wore horned helmets.

    This area is too empty in game , But it is an ancient civilization.There are already too many units in Western Europe. Kartvelian tribes lived a large area. Ignoring reality will not be good


    Hopefully. Inadequate Aggression will not be against me- "There are no Kartvelian tribes, You lie and so on.." - I advice such people to learn history And do not put yourself in an awkward position. Especially since my concepts are already in play. Specifically. In the past, ,Im and Arjos - We Create the Colchis and proto Circassian warriors. In the early days, I knew English very poorly, which led to many misunderstandings. . Currently my English is normal


    I have read too many sources on Kartvelian(Colchian) tribes on the southeastern Black Sea coast. These tribes have a lot in common with Hittite weapons - horns on helmets, A rooster-like helmet , Hittite-type long leather shields , Hittite and Paphlagonian like leather helmets, Some Colchian knives are also very similar to the Hittite knives. This is clearly a post-Hittite isolated world. They also have something in common with Sea Peolpes.I think it's an interesting world.


    Thank you for your attention
    Last edited by Khevsur; December 14, 2021 at 07:52 PM.

  8. #68

    Default Re: EB 2 In-Depth Unit Analyses

    Khevsur,

    May I kindly remind you that the EB 2 In-Depth Unit Analyses trend is intended to be a platform for individual unit guides and to discuss GAMEPLAY related aspects of these units. Any queries about the historical background in this mod can be directed to the appropriate trends such as the Kartvelian Warriors (Colchians, Caucasian Iberians, Chalybeans, Meskhians and Others) that you already put up on Totalwar.org.

    And for your infomation, I am no historian and have a casual interest in history (Like most of us here). Your input is appreciated but the team have their considerations to make, please do not make this situation more difficult than it has to be.
    Last edited by realm56; December 15, 2021 at 06:19 PM.
    To fight and conquer in all our battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting.
    - Sun Tzu



  9. #69
    Khevsur's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: EB 2 In-Depth Unit Analyses

    Quote Originally Posted by realm56 View Post
    Khevsur,

    May I kindly remind you that the EB 2 In-Depth Unit Analyses trend is intended to be a platform for individual unit guides and to discuss GAMEPLAY related aspects of these units. Any queries about the historical background in this mod can be directed to the appropriate trends such as the Kartvelian Warriors (Colchians, Caucasian Iberians, Chalybeans, Meskhians and Others) that you already put up on Totalwar.org.

    And for your infomation, I am no historian and have a casual interest in history (Like most of us here). Your input is appreciated but the team have their considerations to make, please do not make this situation more difficult than it has to be.
    Good friend, understandable.


    If anyone needs sources, I will show you everything.

  10. #70

    Default Re: EB 2 In-Depth Unit Analyses

    Well, we are fast closing in on Christmas and the New Year. We suppose that you've all been well as of far. As such we would like you all to entertain a bit of your time and give an overall rating out of 10 for all the Analyses we have done so far (Be honest! We will not be tolerating needless flattery, harsh and objective ratings are the key to improving our offerings to you all).


    Poll link: https://strawpoll.com/4j7f51der

    Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to you all! (Or Saturnalia if you prefer )
    To fight and conquer in all our battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting.
    - Sun Tzu



  11. #71

    Default Re: EB 2 In-Depth Unit Analyses

    Quote Originally Posted by realm56 View Post
    Well, we are fast closing in on Christmas and the New Year. We suppose that you've all been well as of far. As such we would like you all to entertain a bit of your time and give an overall rating out of 10 for all the Analyses we have done so far (Be honest! We will not be tolerating needless flattery, harsh and objective ratings are the key to improving our offerings to you all).


    Poll link: https://strawpoll.com/4j7f51der

    Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to you all! (Or Saturnalia if you prefer )
    My opinion are somewhat mixed. I like that you show the aor of recruitment and the comparasion unit analysis but the tactial overview of the unit reads more like the history of the unit rather than how this unit would actually be used and i am heavily biased on manpower concern so the lack of how much of unit i could actually recruit kinda miffed me.

    Overall i like the analysis but it really need more depth. Expalaining how the unit would be used would help like for example how Cretan archer are vital for Hellenic missle unit or how Aswar i Kappadokia would be Pontus main cavalry for a long time due to their versatility and availabity.

  12. #72

    Default Re: EB 2 In-Depth Unit Analyses

    Merry Christmas folks!

    We have amazing news to share on this most festive day, we have officially released the very first in our series of Extended Collections (Now avaliable at the end of the opening post). With R4 in the works, you might even find a preview or two included with our present to you all.

    May the blessings be upon you! We wish you all the best for the new year to come!
    To fight and conquer in all our battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting.
    - Sun Tzu



  13. #73

    Default Re: EB 2 In-Depth Unit Analyses

    I found one preview so far, wasn't really checking all. But those new archers look great, especially for Baktria.

    I finally read your analysis of Scorpions, and I'm sorry to say that one is way off.

    First, Scorpions can't pierce targets, so at best their effect in battle against regular troops is comparable to high quality slingers, which are much cheaper. In order to make them piercing, appropriate flag must be set both on unit and projectile, and the latter is missing. Adding it, however, would make them far overpowered IMO, even if their cost was raised. This effectively limits them to 180 ranged kills max, while properly commanded oxybeles can score 300-500 kills if all ammo is exhausted.
    There is, however, one thing that makes unit or two of them worthwhile in every army (beyond realism), and you definitely didn't emphasize it. They do 45 damage. Not attack, damage. This means they one-shot elephants (who have 9 hit points) and generals with 45 or less hitpoints (which is...everyone). Oxybeles has similar feature by the way, for comparison.
    You're off in comparison on few points. The attack value over 65 is IIRC normalized to 65, and anyway both units have so high attack that they effectively kill with every hit. Flaming missiles do not do any additional damage, but they add significant morale effect at the cost of accuracy and I believe rate of fire. This applies only to oxybeles, onagers and lithoboloi have area of effect impact with flaming missiles that's much more powerful.
    Accuracy is also a big difference. Scorpions are pinpoint accurate and can quite reliably hit a unit at their maximum range. Oxybeles is significantly less accurate, and even worse when using flaming missiles.
    The last point is the effect against buildings. Scorpions can't attack them at all, oxybeles can. Although the damage is low, it still means that even against large stone wall, unit of oxybeles can silence one or two towers.

  14. #74

    Default Re: EB 2 In-Depth Unit Analyses

    Hi folks, it's been a while since we posted something! No poll this time, but we are pleased to present a special analysis.

    Behold:
    Ner.pdf
    Last edited by realm56; May 03, 2022 at 09:32 AM.
    To fight and conquer in all our battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting.
    - Sun Tzu



  15. #75

    Default Re: EB 2 In-Depth Unit Analyses

    Quote Originally Posted by realm56 View Post
    Hi folks, it's been a while since we posted something! No poll this time, but we are pleased to present a special analysis.

    Behold:
    Ner.pdf
    These guys have the stats to go toe-to-toe with Hetairoi

  16. #76

    Default Re: EB 2 In-Depth Unit Analyses

    Quote Originally Posted by Shoebopp View Post
    These guys have the stats to go toe-to-toe with Hetairoi
    They sure do . Read them and weep Romanoi!
    To fight and conquer in all our battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting.
    - Sun Tzu



  17. #77

    Default Re: EB 2 In-Depth Unit Analyses

    Since we are so kind, Round 18 of the EB2 In-depth Unit Analyses is here! You have 2 weeks to vote!

    Poll Link:
    https://strawpoll.com/polls/XmZRjWYRvZd
    To fight and conquer in all our battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting.
    - Sun Tzu



  18. #78

    Default Re: EB 2 In-Depth Unit Analyses

    Voting for the unit to feature in Round 18 of the In-Depth Unit Analyses has officially closed! The Nadi Chara, compainions of the Maundae has been chosen! Their analysis will be posted soon.

    UPDATE: The analysis is up! Please make your way to the opening post to find it!
    Last edited by realm56; May 23, 2022 at 07:29 AM.
    To fight and conquer in all our battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting.
    - Sun Tzu



  19. #79

    Default Re: EB 2 In-Depth Unit Analyses

    Those nadi chara heavy horse archers gave me a lot of trouble when fighting saka... i think they are probably the most annoying units to fight

  20. #80

    Default Re: EB 2 In-Depth Unit Analyses

    Quote Originally Posted by randy_cat View Post
    Those nadi chara heavy horse archers gave me a lot of trouble when fighting saka... i think they are probably the most annoying units to fight
    Yeah, they are a great unit to use as the Saka but a frustrating one to fight against. As Baktria, it is actually advised that you accept the Seleucid gift of Elephants in order to make your fights with them and the Cataphracts easier, as Parthia, your own bodyguards and cataphracts will do just fine.
    To fight and conquer in all our battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting.
    - Sun Tzu



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