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Thread: US Forces In Full Scale Retreat From Afghanistan; 20 years of War Ending In Total Military Defeat?

  1. #61

    Default Re: US Forces In Full Scale Retreat From Afghanistan; 20 years of War Ending In Total Military Defeat?

    And it looks like China simply made a deal with Taliban, so we can write off grim fantasies predictions of China fighting a losing insurgency war on Taliban as American cope, as it is pretty obvious that Afghanistan will simply join Chinese sphere of influence with minimal losses for China.

  2. #62

    Default Re: US Forces In Full Scale Retreat From Afghanistan; 20 years of War Ending In Total Military Defeat?

    I think maintaining strict deterrence in the Pacific may convince China that overland expansion into Central Asia is the more cost effective route, putting them in even more direct conflict with Russian and Indian interests. Will see what happens. Maybe luck will be on America’s side again. By retreating from Afghanistan, the US has effectively ceded the issue to regional players in any case, so all one can do is watch and hope.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    No, we don't care about your libertarian "evidence".
    “To live without faith, without a heritage to defend, without battling constantly for truth, is not to live but to ‘get along’; we must never just ‘get along’.” - Pier Giorgio Frassati

  3. #63
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    Default Re: US Forces In Full Scale Retreat From Afghanistan; 20 years of War Ending In Total Military Defeat?

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    And it looks like China simply made a deal with Taliban, so we can write off grim fantasies predictions of China fighting a losing insurgency war on Taliban as American cope, as it is pretty obvious that Afghanistan will simply join Chinese sphere of influence with minimal losses for China.
    First mistake is trusting the Taliban. As much previous post showed Chinese citizens were hit with a bomb attack in Pakistan. It's naive to even remotely think the Taliban will leave China alone.

  4. #64

    Default Re: US Forces In Full Scale Retreat From Afghanistan; 20 years of War Ending In Total Military Defeat?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanoi View Post
    First mistake is trusting the Taliban. As much previous post showed Chinese citizens were hit with a bomb attack in Pakistan. It's naive to even remotely think the Taliban will leave China alone.
    The article you posted doesn't even mention Taliban, official government stance maintains it was malfunction of the vehicle, Beijing says it was a bomb attack but doesn't name any culprits.
    Could be malfunction, could be a bomb, could be a bomb from Taliban, could be a bomb form ISIS, could be CIA, could be Russia, could be India, could be bomb from China itself. Who knows.
    Your whole argument basically rests on an assumption that Taliban was behind it with 0 evidence, not that I'm saying it would be beneath Taliban, but it simply looks like you just want it to be Taliban, because you hate the idea of China taking over with minimal losses after US has suffered a humiliating defeat there.

  5. #65
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    Default Re: US Forces In Full Scale Retreat From Afghanistan; 20 years of War Ending In Total Military Defeat?

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    The article you posted doesn't even mention Taliban, official government stance maintains it was malfunction of the vehicle, Beijing says it was a bomb attack but doesn't name any culprits.
    Could be malfunction, could be a bomb, could be a bomb from Taliban, could be a bomb form ISIS, could be CIA, could be Russia, could be India, could be bomb from China itself. Who knows.
    Your whole argument basically rests on an assumption that Taliban was behind it with 0 evidence, not that I'm saying it would be beneath Taliban, but it simply looks like you just want it to be Taliban, because you hate the idea of China taking over with minimal losses after US has suffered a humiliating defeat there.
    Zero evidence? The Chinese claim it was a bomb attack and not only that this occured in Khyber-Paktunkhwa province.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insu...er_Pakhtunkhwa

    Pakistan has been fighting the Taliban in that province for 17 years. My previous article also points out that Islamist militants have attacked Chinese nationals in the past.

    Like I said. You're naive to trust the Taliban and deserve what comes your way for doing so.
    Last edited by Vanoi; July 14, 2021 at 11:09 AM.

  6. #66

    Default Re: US Forces In Full Scale Retreat From Afghanistan; 20 years of War Ending In Total Military Defeat?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanoi View Post
    Zero evidence? The Chinese claim it was a militant attack and not only that this occured in Khyber-Paktunkhwa province.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insu...er_Pakhtunkhwa

    Pakistan has been fighting the Taliban in that province for 17 years. My previous article also points out that Islamist militants have attacked Chinese nationals in the past.

    Like I said. You're naive to trust the Taliban and deserve that comes your way for doing so.
    Article you yourself posted doesn't mention Taliban even once.
    There are militant groups other then Taliban, as cited by wiki article you posted, 8 mentioned, not counting organized crime.
    There could be more pragmatic non-sectarian reasons behind bombing (like local government official being spiteful), heck even Chinese themselves could do it for some internal power struggle reason.
    Your whole argument about Taliban imminently backstabbing China against its own interests relies on a series of rather desperate assumptions.
    Strictly from pragmatic point of view, Taliban has nothing to gain from attacking China.

  7. #67
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    Default Re: US Forces In Full Scale Retreat From Afghanistan; 20 years of War Ending In Total Military Defeat?

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    Article you yourself posted doesn't mention Taliban even once.
    It mentions Islamist militants which are what the Taliban are. Or did you forget?

    There are militant groups other then Taliban, as cited by wiki article you posted, 8 mentioned, not counting organized crime.
    There could be more pragmatic non-sectarian reasons behind bombing (like local government official being spiteful), heck even Chinese themselves could do it for some internal power struggle reason.
    Your whole argument about Taliban imminently backstabbing China against its own interests relies on a series of rather desperate assumptions.
    Strictly from pragmatic point of view, Taliban has nothing to gain from attacking China.
    If you bothered to read the article the main group is the TTP that carries out attacks in that province. Mention other groups all you want, it's you who has to prove they are the more likely culprit and not the Taliban.

    Just recently the Pakistani Taliban claimed responsibility for suicide bombing a luxury hotel hosting a Chinese ambassador.

    https://www.france24.com/en/live-new...stan-bus-blast

    In April, the Pakistani Taliban claimed responsibility for a deadly suicide blast at a luxury hotel hosting the Chinese ambassador, who was unhurt, in southwest Balochistan.
    You seriously have to be naive to trust the Taliban.
    Last edited by Vanoi; July 14, 2021 at 11:55 AM.

  8. #68

    Default Re: US Forces In Full Scale Retreat From Afghanistan; 20 years of War Ending In Total Military Defeat?

    The wiki article you posted mentions 8 different sectarian groups that routinely blow up. Unless you have specific evidence that it was Taliban exactly and not the other 7 means that you simply just assume it was Taliban to give merit to your unsubstantiated assertion that Taliban wants to fight China because reasons.
    You seriously have to be naive to trust the Taliban.
    Who said anything about "trust" in geopolitics? China doesn't "trust" Taliban, they are making a mutually-beneficial agreement. What is truly naive is thinking that any faction "trusts" another.

  9. #69
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    Default Re: US Forces In Full Scale Retreat From Afghanistan; 20 years of War Ending In Total Military Defeat?

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    The wiki article you posted mentions 8 different sectarian groups that routinely blow up.
    Yet the main group is the TTP who I have demonstrated have targeted Chinese nationals previously. Like the hotel bombing in April you just conveniently ignored.

    Unless you have specific evidence that it was Taliban exactly and not the other 7 means that you simply just assume it was Taliban to give merit to your unsubstantiated assertion that Taliban wants to fight China because reasons.
    Unless you have any specific evidence or proof that it is these other groups your just blowing smoke.

    Who said anything about "trust" in geopolitics? China doesn't "trust" Taliban, they are making a mutually-beneficial agreement. What is truly naive is thinking that any faction "trusts" another.
    The same Taliban who don't tolerate foreign influence or presence in Afghanistan?

  10. #70

    Default Re: US Forces In Full Scale Retreat From Afghanistan; 20 years of War Ending In Total Military Defeat?

    Burden of proof is on you, I'm not the one claiming to be a detective prodigy, solving the case in Pakistan from behind a keyboard in America.
    My point is pretty clear - there is no evidence for a potential long-term conflict between China and Taliban.
    The reason why America failed was because they chose to prop up their own puppet government, which didn't work. China is not repeating that mistake and dealing with Taliban directly, which is pretty much agreeing to cooperate as far as negotiations go.
    Notion of Taliban attacking China "just cause" is just American cope and wishful thinking.

  11. #71
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    Default Re: US Forces In Full Scale Retreat From Afghanistan; 20 years of War Ending In Total Military Defeat?

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    Burden of proof is on you,
    Which I why I provided information like past attacks to prove my point. Like when the Pakistani Taliban targeted a luxury hotel hosting the Chinese ambassador you've ignored twice now. You've got nothing so far.


    I'm not the one claiming to be a detective prodigy, solving the case in Pakistan from behind a keyboard in America.
    where have I claimed to be a detective prodigy?

    Rest of post is laughable. Dealing with the Taliban directly doesn't guarantee they won't attack you as the Americans found out when they attempted to seek peace. Taliban hold all the leverage here and China none.

  12. #72

    Default Re: US Forces In Full Scale Retreat From Afghanistan; 20 years of War Ending In Total Military Defeat?

    All you did was cite 2 attacks in a different country, one of which targeted hotel and no evidence that it targeted one Chinese guy that was there, and another one doesn't even have an assigned culprit and you yourself posted a wiki source disproving your argument by mentioning how there are like 8 different sectarian groups fighting each other and the government. Heck we don't even have any evidence that it was insurgents and not just organized crime some internal power struggle stuff, all while authorities themselves state that it was gas leak.
    Basically your whole argument rests on a chain of vague assumptions that you are trying to present as 100% facts while simultaneously demanding that I provide proof that your assumptions aren't true. I'm sure you are going to rephrase same thing that you said and repeat it again as a retort.

  13. #73
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    Default Re: US Forces In Full Scale Retreat From Afghanistan; 20 years of War Ending In Total Military Defeat?

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    All you did was cite 2 attacks in a different country, one of which targeted hotel and no evidence that it targeted one Chinese guy that was there,
    Because it's just coincidence they picked the same hotel that was hosting a Chinese ambassador? The Chinese are condemned the attack don't feel that way.

    and another one doesn't even have an assigned culprit and you yourself posted a wiki source disproving your argument by mentioning how there are like 8 different sectarian groups fighting each other and the government. Heck we don't even have any evidence that it was insurgents and not just organized crime some internal power struggle stuff, all while authorities themselves state that it was gas leak.
    Basically your whole argument rests on a chain of vague assumptions that you are trying to present as 100% facts while simultaneously demanding that I provide proof that your assumptions aren't true. I'm sure you are going to rephrase same thing that you said and repeat it again as a retort.
    Your entire argument boils down to there simply being other groups in the area. That's the best you got? No other evidence?

    Pakistan claimed it was a gas leak. Pakistan also claimed they didn't know Osama was in Pakistan. And the Chinese believe it to be an attack, not a gas leak. Pakistan has every reason to lie considering they don't want to lose Chinese investment over security concerns.

  14. #74

    Default Re: US Forces In Full Scale Retreat From Afghanistan; 20 years of War Ending In Total Military Defeat?

    And again we go with divinations.
    Unless you can provide concrete evidence that Taliban was behind this attack and its part of some Taliban's long-term plan to fight China (why?), your argument doesn't even make sense.

  15. #75

    Default Re: US Forces In Full Scale Retreat From Afghanistan; 20 years of War Ending In Total Military Defeat?

    Good luck China, I guess? Ten years from now after China's inevitable demographic collapse I guess they can send battalions of their 55+ seniors to get atomized by IEDs.

    the forever wars are idiotic and serve nothing but political goals. who gives a . I'll add finally that even when the dumbass chinese moron government of communist idiocy was scrabbling to achieve legitimacy they ed themselves over through their own idiot policies from the start of course to try to get, Americans recognized that the dumbassery of the Chinese government's idiocy could not be reconciled. Unfortunately, the unmitigated ing idiocy of the Chinese government cannot be understated, and it is only a matter of time until even the sheeple they have domesticated beneath their retarded regime rebel against how piss poor it is. Dont believe me? Read any history book where the Chinese revolt like every couple hundred years because of "muh new dynasty" or who cares. Such a stupid country.
    Last edited by Pontifex Maximus; July 15, 2021 at 06:23 PM.

  16. #76
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    Default Re: US Forces In Full Scale Retreat From Afghanistan; 20 years of War Ending In Total Military Defeat?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pontifex Maximus View Post
    Good luck China, I guess? Ten years from now after China's inevitable demographic collapse I guess they can send battalions of their 55+ seniors to get atomized by IEDs.

    the forever wars are idiotic and serve nothing but political goals. who gives a . I'll add finally that even when the dumbass chinese moron government of communist idiocy was scrabbling to achieve legitimacy they ed themselves over through their own idiot policies from the start of course to try to get, Americans recognized that the dumbassery of the Chinese government's idiocy could not be reconciled. Unfortunately, the unmitigated ing idiocy of the Chinese government cannot be understated, and it is only a matter of time until even the sheeple they have domesticated beneath their retarded regime rebel against how piss poor it is. Dont believe me? Read any history book where the Chinese revolt like every couple hundred years because of "muh new dynasty" or who cares. Such a stupid country.
    It's because Mandarin lacks verb tenses, so everything they do aimed towards the present without foresight to the future!
    Last edited by EmperorBatman999; July 15, 2021 at 08:11 PM.

  17. #77

    Default Re: US Forces In Full Scale Retreat From Afghanistan; 20 years of War Ending In Total Military Defeat?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pontifex Maximus View Post
    Good luck China, I guess? Ten years from now after China's inevitable demographic collapse I guess they can send battalions of their 55+ seniors to get atomized by IEDs.

    the forever wars are idiotic and serve nothing but political goals. who gives a . I'll add finally that even when the dumbass chinese moron government of communist idiocy was scrabbling to achieve legitimacy they ed themselves over through their own idiot policies from the start of course to try to get, Americans recognized that the dumbassery of the Chinese government's idiocy could not be reconciled. Unfortunately, the unmitigated ing idiocy of the Chinese government cannot be understated, and it is only a matter of time until even the sheeple they have domesticated beneath their retarded regime rebel against how piss poor it is. Dont believe me? Read any history book where the Chinese revolt like every couple hundred years because of "muh new dynasty" or who cares. Such a stupid country.
    Nah, I doubt Winnie the Pooh is dumb enough to go full retard boots on the ground like Cheney and Bush did.
    They are more likely to make a deal with Taliban directly, probably selling them weapons and equipment in exchange for their natural resources and mining rights.

  18. #78
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    Default Re: US Forces In Full Scale Retreat From Afghanistan; 20 years of War Ending In Total Military Defeat?

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    Nah, I doubt Winnie the Pooh is dumb enough to go full retard boots on the ground like Cheney and Bush did.
    They are more likely to make a deal with Taliban directly, probably selling them weapons and equipment in exchange for their natural resources and mining rights.
    You really think China is going to arm and equip the Taliban? China is going to start seriously arming a radical Islamist group? That's just stupid.

  19. #79

    Default Re: US Forces In Full Scale Retreat From Afghanistan; 20 years of War Ending In Total Military Defeat?

    China was doing that since 1980s, my dude.

  20. #80
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    Default Re: US Forces In Full Scale Retreat From Afghanistan; 20 years of War Ending In Total Military Defeat?

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    China was doing that since 1980s, my dude.
    Like who?

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