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Thread: Why are you afraid?

  1. #41
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    Default Re: Why are you afraid?

    If there is no free will, I am a divinely sanctioned skeptic only acting per preordained nature. Makes life easier, I suppose.
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  2. #42
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: Why are you afraid?

    covered all time giving all mankind the opportunity of eternal life with Him
    So its backdated than and everyone who never got a chance like what a one off visit in the afterlife to hear the word.

    That sacrifice was the only way where sin could be dealt with because who else could have done it other than the Son of God?
    I fail to see the logic of that statement. What makes sacrifice the only solution. Why not multiple children to enact the same series events around the world at a time without global communications.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  3. #43
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: Why are you afraid?

    Quote Originally Posted by Exarch View Post
    Who is funding all of this research?

    Why does it sound like some rich guy(s) with transvestism fetish?

    It's like that Groom character from the Outlast Series who forces males to become females under his surgical "expertise"
    Looks to be the University of Shanghai - who would appear to lack an ethics review panel.
    Last edited by conon394; July 12, 2021 at 06:28 AM.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  4. #44
    basics's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Why are you afraid?

    Quote Originally Posted by conon394 View Post
    So its backdated than and everyone who never got a chance like what a one off visit in the afterlife to hear the word.
    I fail to see the logic of that statement. What makes sacrifice the only solution. Why not multiple children to enact the same series events around the world at a time without global communications.
    conon394,

    There isn't and never has been a human being who has not known or thought about God. When God separated the peoples way back at Babylon they carried off with themselves the knowledge of His being. From that knowledge various versions arose as time passed but nonetheless it never left mankind.

    As for the sacrifice of Jesus Christ and why Him is important because the price of sin is death, meaning blood in the sense that blood is what keeps us alive and so His blood was the only untainted blood that could accomplish salvation. All our blood was tainted by sin meaning only His could do the job.

  5. #45
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: Why are you afraid?

    When God separated the peoples way back at Babylon they carried off with themselves the knowledge of His being..
    A fairly weak why things are the way they are story that of course has zero basis in observable facts.

    As for the sacrifice of Jesus Christ and why Him is important because the price of sin is death, meaning blood in the sense that blood is what keeps us alive and so His blood was the only untainted blood that could accomplish salvation. All our blood was tainted by sin meaning only His could do the job.
    So what you are really saying is it was only necessary because god was both careless and than capricious and imposed blood attainder on people who had never committed a sin. Really given how god likes wiping masses of people it would way more easy to simply wipe out Adam and Eve - problem solved sin is punished and start with the 2.0 versions. And you remove the tress.
    Last edited by conon394; July 13, 2021 at 06:30 AM.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  6. #46
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    Default Re: Why are you afraid?

    Quote Originally Posted by Derc View Post
    They follow the law of society. Bioengineering is a highly sensitive topic, and most of it needs to be done in the dark. Just imagine the public outrage if some highly unethical experiments would become public. SJW and media would swarm over the institute like hungry coyotes.
    It's not about those researchers.

    It's about you, me and regular people.

    Why would we feel outrageous? Or why should we? Who is hurt here? I don't see how those experiments can possibly affect me negatively, unlike, e.g. GM food on market. Meanwhile everyone could potentially be benefited from new discoveries.

    If nobody is hurt, isn't such rage completely bs?

  7. #47
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: Why are you afraid?

    Quote Originally Posted by AqD View Post
    It's not about those researchers.

    It's about you, me and regular people.

    Why would we feel outrageous? Or why should we? Who is hurt here? I don't see how those experiments can possibly affect me negatively, unlike, e.g. GM food on market. Meanwhile everyone could potentially be benefited from new discoveries.

    If nobody is hurt, isn't such rage completely bs?
    Difference is GM food is quite safe. This was pointless experiment that inflected harm on living animals for no particular greater good. Again this experiment would been shot down at any US university or biotech as simply an exercise in extreme cruelty. As said I worked with a lot people who use animals in research and I cannot think of one who not be appalled by this experiment/side show rather

    Why are you are hurt because the researchers who devised this experiment clearly are lacking a moral compass. You have no ideal where they drift into next without any moral judgment.
    Last edited by conon394; July 12, 2021 at 08:32 PM.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  8. #48
    basics's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Why are you afraid?

    Quote Originally Posted by conon394 View Post
    A fairly weak why things are the way they are story that of course has zero basis in observable facts.

    So what you are really saying is it was only necessary because god was both careless and than capricious and imposed blood attainder on people who had never committed a sin. Really given how god wiping masses of people it would way more easy to simply wipe out Adam and Eve - problem solved sin is punished and start with the 2.0 versions. And you remove the tress.
    conon394,

    Fairly weak is it that nearly every part of humanity can talk of the flood in their history. As for the sin part please tell me who you know to be sinless? The only careless thing I see at this moment is the incoherent last sentence. Now that's an observable fact.

  9. #49
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    Default Re: Why are you afraid?

    Quote Originally Posted by basics View Post
    Fairly weak is it that nearly every part of humanity can talk of the flood in their history.
    Nearly every part of humanity can point to floods in their history. There was one here in my city last month. Go to the BBC and search flood and you'll probably find one happening somewhere now. It is common for flood myths to be handed down by word of mouth because floods are common. Commonality of experience isn't evidence of the same experience.

    Not that this thread is the place for that discussion, unless we can bring it back to fear: maybe we could be discussing how culturally embedded fear of great floods is a great example of how anything that threatens social cohesion can become culturally embedded. Lots of cultures also have stories of evil snakes and morality tales of what happens when someone commits murder or how to deal with people who have contagious disease.

    Why am I afraid? Because my culture has evolved/constructed a set of behavioural standards that acted to protect my society when there were a lot more unknowns about how the world worked. Floods are dangerous to everyone. Snakes bite and kill. Murder damages social integration of communities. Diseases can completely destroy communities.

    In that respect, creation was God's domain. But only because our societies and cultures didn't know how creation worked. We hid everything we didn't understand behind God (or gods). As we understand more... God (and gods) fall further into the gaps of knowledge. Creation of new life is just the next thing in a long line of things that we've taken out of the hands of our mythologies.
    Last edited by antaeus; July 13, 2021 at 05:58 AM.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB MARENOSTRUM

  10. #50
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    Default Re: Why are you afraid?

    Quote Originally Posted by basics View Post
    conon394,

    Fairly weak is it that nearly every part of humanity can talk of the flood in their history. As for the sin part please tell me who you know to be sinless? The only careless thing I see at this moment is the incoherent last sentence. Now that's an observable fact.
    Lots of flood myths yes and lots that have no relation at to the the Bible once you leave Mesopotamia and equally lots of people who had no such myths.

    Sin hmm. People do bad things and good. Not saying otherwise. But blood attainder 'sin' for the wrongs committed by a made up human pair before a capricious god nope not seeing much of that.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  11. #51

    Default Re: Why are you afraid?

    I think that the main issue here is not that people are "afraid of progress", they are more afraid of how new technology would be used in current society they live in, where things like medicine and healthcare are heavily commodified and where there is a long history of healthcare professionals doing some pretty terrible things, from eugenics and lobotomy to modern-day Big Pharma hooking up millions on opiates.

  12. #52
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    Default Re: Why are you afraid?

    Heathen Hammer,

    I think the biggest connection to fear is death something that looms over us even from an early age. We tinker with life in so many ways and progress is just another additive to that.

  13. #53
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: Why are you afraid?

    Quote Originally Posted by basics View Post
    Heathen Hammer,

    I think the biggest connection to fear is death something that looms over us even from an early age. We tinker with life in so many ways and progress is just another additive to that.
    Well in the OP example just cruelty.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  14. #54
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    Default Re: Why are you afraid?

    Quote Originally Posted by conon394 View Post
    Well in the OP example just cruelty.
    conon394,

    Sorry, but I don't know what OP stands for nor where the cruelty comes in.

  15. #55
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: Why are you afraid?

    Quote Originally Posted by basics View Post
    conon394,

    Sorry, but I don't know what OP stands for nor where the cruelty comes in.
    OP Original post. The experiment if deem to give that level of credibility cited is pure cruelty. Nothing it achieves justifies that level of suffering be inflicted on animals. I not sure why why AgD is worried about genes, but he really should be worried that unethical researchers found someplace to publish (or even got approved and funded) the experiment in question.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  16. #56
    basics's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Why are you afraid?

    conon395,

    We can't imagine how much we owe to so many animals that have been used in searching out new treaments for our ailments. Humanity has a lot to answer for.

  17. #57
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: Why are you afraid?

    There is however a line between reckless cruelty and a measured use of animals in research.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  18. #58
    basics's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Why are you afraid?

    Quote Originally Posted by conon394 View Post
    There is however a line between reckless cruelty and a measured use of animals in research.
    conon394,

    " measured " being the key.

  19. #59
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    Default Re: Why are you afraid?

    antaeus,

    The huge question that man has to answer is God really a myth? How could Jesus Christ raise the dead, make the blind see, make the deaf hear, clean leprosy never mind make water into wine, walk on the same water and calm a storm, if He were not Someone special as being God in the flesh? Was His death and resurrection a myth? It is also written that, " at the name of Jesus every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord," That means every single person who ever lived will have to do that at His return to judge the world. On that day not one soul alive or dead will have any doubts about Him.

  20. #60
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    Default Re: Why are you afraid?

    Quote Originally Posted by conon394 View Post
    Difference is GM food is quite safe. This was pointless experiment that inflected harm on living animals for no particular greater good. Again this experiment would been shot down at any US university or biotech as simply an exercise in extreme cruelty. As said I worked with a lot people who use animals in research and I cannot think of one who not be appalled by this experiment/side show rather

    Why are you are hurt because the researchers who devised this experiment clearly are lacking a moral compass. You have no ideal where they drift into next without any moral judgment.
    Saying GM food is absolutely safe would be false, see banana's story.


    What moral compass?

    A creature either has 1) rights defined in laws, or 2) no right whatsoever.

    Morality is not determined by a fair and transparent process. It's not even measurable.

    Quote Originally Posted by basics View Post
    It is also written that, " at the name of Jesus every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord," That means every single person who ever lived will have to do that at His return to judge the world. On that day not one soul alive or dead will have any doubts about Him.
    You say he is our lord, but you never answered why he should be our lord

    Having power is not the reason someone should be respected or stay in power.

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