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Thread: Why are you afraid?

  1. #1
    AqD's Avatar 。◕‿◕。
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    Default Why are you afraid?

    News: scientists get male rats to give birth

    The experiment drew much criticism. Controversial, I know, but if you look into those criticisms - they're not centered around practical concerns such as gene pollution. Instead they all come from a single cause: people are generally afraid when we do what was thought to be God's work.


    But why? Is it gene deficiency or social engineering that make people to think that way? Why are we afraid? Many of them probably don't even believe in God, yet they continue to follow his laws.

    Isn't that the ultimate form of oppression, to convince people to oppress their capabilities and intelligence so willingly they can't feel they're being oppressed?


    What's wrong with playing God? We shall all be Gods one day - how can there be any drawback? The only question is how we reach that.

  2. #2
    Himster's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Why are you afraid?

    Progress is essentially inevitable.
    The problem, as I see it, is technology progressing faster than our morality and the issues that will be found in the historical future are invisible to us.
    Having appropriate ethical brakes is necessary. I'm not saying deontological brakes (God based morality) is the best or even appropriate. But imperfect brakes are better than no brakes at all.

    they're not centered around practical concerns
    Ethics primarily based on practical concerns will inevitably be reduced to sophistry. As in: can/will be used to justify any course of action as long as the hypothetical results are seen as positive from at least one perspective.

    Is it gene deficiency or social engineering that make people to think that way?
    A cautious temperament is the result of natural selection.
    One can imagine the ill-cautious of generations past jumping from cliffs without looking, tickling crocodiles, insulting kings, checking malfunctioning firearms by looking down the barrel etc.

    What's wrong with playing God? We shall all be Gods one day - how can there be any drawback?
    There is a fine line between becoming a god and becoming a daemon.
    The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are so certain of themselves, but wiser people are full of doubts.
    -Betrand Russell

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    basics's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Why are you afraid?

    AqD,

    There's quite a difference between being God and us playing god. If Darwin be correct then none of us will be anything at all, and if God be correct, and He usually is, not one of us will live to make such a claim, why? Well the answer is so obvious in that when ever did the clay tell the Potter what to do?

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    Akar's Avatar I am not a clever man
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    Default Re: Why are you afraid?

    If Darwin be correct then none of us will be anything at all,
    Huh?

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  5. #5
    Tribunus
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    Default Re: Why are you afraid?

    Quote Originally Posted by basics View Post
    AqD,

    There's quite a difference between being God and us playing god.
    Quite true, if I left my newborn children in a garden with lethal fruit and a venomous snake on the loose I'd be locked up, but He gets worshipped smh.

    Quote Originally Posted by basics View Post
    If Darwin be correct then none of us will be anything at all, and if God be correct, and He usually is, not one of us will live to make such a claim,
    Yeah God told Adam if he ate the fruit on that day he would die and it didn't happen, so much for God's claims. Was he drunk the entire time he was in Eden? "Come over here Adam, I have some animals for you to name, and if you really like one you can marry it. No? Ok gimme your rib then..."

    As for Darwin he was a humble, tender-hearted Christian, believed in the Good News and everything. Paul would have embraced him as a true follower of Christ but for some weird reason on little sect of Christianity spread this nonsense that he was a raving atheist. I guess facts just don't matter.

    Quote Originally Posted by basics View Post
    why? Well the answer is so obvious in that when ever did the clay tell the Potter what to do?
    Um old chap when did the potter get the clay pregnant? Pretty weird old potter if you ask me.

    As for me I'm more of a jar, and a bit cracked. Did the potter's hand slip when He made me?
    Jatte lambastes Calico Rat

  6. #6

    Default Re: Why are you afraid?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    As for Darwin he was a humble, tender-hearted Christian, believed in the Good News and everything. Paul would have embraced him as a true follower of Christ but for some weird reason on little sect of Christianity spread this nonsense that he was a raving atheist. I guess facts just don't matter.
    From what I can tell, he was a self-identified Agnostic who openly rejected Christ and the Bible.

    "I am sorry to have to inform you that I do not believe in the Bible as a divine revelation, & therefore not in Jesus Christ as the Son of God"
    "I think that generally (& more and more so as I grow older) but not always, that an agnostic would be the most correct description of my state of mind."
    In uncharacteristically bold discussions after dinner Darwin asked his guests "Why do you call yourselves Atheists?" When they responded that they "did not commit the folly of god-denial, [and] avoided with equal care the folly of god-assertion", Darwin gave a thoughtful response, concluding that "I am with you in thought, but I should prefer the word Agnostic to the word Atheist." Aveling replied that, "after all, 'Agnostic' was but 'Atheist' writ respectable, and 'Atheist' was only 'Agnostic' writ aggressive." Darwin smiled and responded "Why should you be so aggressive? Is anything gained by trying to force these new ideas upon the mass of mankind? It is all very well for educated, cultured, thoughtful people; but are the masses yet ripe for it?"
    Whether a man of such views can be considered humble, tender-hearted or Christian, I leave it to you to decide.
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    basics's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Why are you afraid?

    Cyclops,

    Well for a start Adam and Eve weren't born, they were created and placed in a garden that contained nothing lethal. The forbidden fruit was knowledge of good and evil which if they had obeyed and believed God they wouldn't have touched it. That said there was one personality in the garden in the shape of a serpent who persuaded them that they could eat of that tree and surely not die whatever death was.

    Upon eating the fruit they immediately realised they were naked, both bodily and shamefully and like children which they weren't they tried to hide as well as cover themselves. Did they die immediately? No they didn't yet they had to live with the fear of death for the rest of their lives which were prolonged to populate the earth. There is no doubt that they did die but not until their purpose for being there was finished.

    Like many religious people Darwin did not follow God's word, did not believe that God created all things in six wonderful days so he followed others in the making up of the evolutionary theory which is the same mistake Adam and Eve made by disbelieving God and therefore disobeying Him. He was no Christian.

    Your not a bit cracked ole fella just a bit upside down from where I am sitting.

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    Akar's Avatar I am not a clever man
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    Default Re: Why are you afraid?

    From what I can tell, he was a self-identified Agnostic who openly rejected Christ and the Bible.
    Like many religious people Darwin did not follow God's word, did not believe that God created all things in six wonderful days so he followed others in the making up of the evolutionary theory which is the same mistake Adam and Eve made by disbelieving God and therefore disobeying Him. He was no Christian.
    Is the inability to detect sarcasm endemic to Christians?

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  9. #9
    basics's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Why are you afraid?

    Akar,

    Your first quote I never wrote. I don't see any sarcasm in what I did write so perhaps you might enlighten this dimwit?

  10. #10

    Default Re: Why are you afraid?

    Quote Originally Posted by basics View Post
    AqD,

    There's quite a difference between being God and us playing god. If Darwin be correct then none of us will be anything at all, and if God be correct, and He usually is, not one of us will live to make such a claim, why? Well the answer is so obvious in that when ever did the clay tell the Potter what to do?
    Darwin was proven correct, and god is an imaginary character, so you can give him any kind of superpowers you want.
    Optio, Legio I Latina

  11. #11

    Default Re: Why are you afraid?

    Delete this post.
    Last edited by Gromovnik; July 06, 2021 at 05:45 AM. Reason: double post
    Optio, Legio I Latina

  12. #12
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: Why are you afraid?

    Quote Originally Posted by AqD View Post
    News: scientists get male rats to give birth

    The experiment drew much criticism. Controversial, I know, but if you look into those criticisms - they're not centered around practical concerns such as gene pollution. Instead they all come from a single cause: people are generally afraid when we do what was thought to be God's work.


    But why? Is it gene deficiency or social engineering that make people to think that way? Why are we afraid? Many of them probably don't even believe in God, yet they continue to follow his laws.

    Isn't that the ultimate form of oppression, to convince people to oppress their capabilities and intelligence so willingly they can't feel they're being oppressed?


    What's wrong with playing God? We shall all be Gods one day - how can there be any drawback? The only question is how we reach that.
    It seems a fairly cruel and pointless study. I'm agnostic I got no god worries in this. Its just were I voting on the bio ethics board (if they have one) - it would be no. Nothing gained is worth the level of cruelty
    Last edited by conon394; July 07, 2021 at 09:10 AM.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

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    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Why are you afraid?

    Quote Originally Posted by Akar View Post
    Is the inability to detect sarcasm endemic to Christians?
    Well, I've heard people unironically state that Joe Biden is a "devout Christian", so you never know.
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  14. #14
    chriscase's Avatar Princess Thunderballs
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    Default Re: Why are you afraid?

    Please remember to phrase your arguments in an impersonal manner. Commentary about other members is off topic.

    Why is it that mysteries are always about something bad? You never hear there's a mystery, and then it's like, "Who made cookies?"
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    Derc's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Why are you afraid?

    Quote Originally Posted by AqD View Post
    But why? Is it gene deficiency or social engineering that make people to think that way? Why are we afraid? Many of them probably don't even believe in God, yet they continue to follow his laws.
    They follow the law of society. Bioengineering is a highly sensitive topic, and most of it needs to be done in the dark. Just imagine the public outrage if some highly unethical experiments would become public. SJW and media would swarm over the institute like hungry coyotes. Shareholders would be forced to pull out immediately if they don't want to get their name ruined. Rivals would rub their hands. All in all the project would burn down, and that is why it needs to be done in the dark, releasing results in a highly neutral (and censored) way as you go. If at all.

    And that's another reason why it needs to be done in secret: competition. Stuff like that would be (or rather is) a scientific breakthrough. There's much money to make on one side, and lots of danger to prevent on the other. It can't fall "into wrong hands", and the government will make sure of that.

    Btw, go and play the Deus Ex Series (in chronological order). It tells about this stuff, lol.
    Last edited by Derc; July 07, 2021 at 03:33 AM. Reason: I never asked for this

  16. #16
    basics's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Why are you afraid?

    No matter what happens in this life there will come a day when all will be judged and dealt with. It's what happens after that that any person should be afraid of.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Why are you afraid?

    What happens after that?
    Optio, Legio I Latina

  18. #18
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: Why are you afraid?

    Just imagine the public outrage if some highly unethical experiments would become public. SJW and media would swarm over the institute like hungry coyotes
    So what wait that does not make sense if the experiment is highly unethical it should be criticized. Or are you saying you only need to put on your ethics in public for show? I reiterate I worked in Biotech and University with lots of people who work rat/mouse work and I can't think of one them who call this experiment valid, or worth the harm done for a what very little gain.
    Last edited by conon394; July 07, 2021 at 11:33 AM.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  19. #19
    Derc's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Why are you afraid?

    Of course it should be criticized, and the people involved will have their ethical doubts too. But there are also enough people who do not hesitate to do it. This is not even high level laboratory stuff. It's high end stuff. Ethics have little room there, or the people involved have their own view of it. The scientists do what they are tasked to do, no matter what else. Only the result counts. It's the same behaviour like in top level banking, the military, the executive section of a megacorp, everywhere, really.

  20. #20
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: Why are you afraid?

    You always have the option to resign or not join a collaboration or report to whatever ethics controls exist (if they do and they should).
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

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