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  1. #1
    AqD's Avatar 。◕‿◕。
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    Default Why are you afraid?

    News: scientists get male rats to give birth

    The experiment drew much criticism. Controversial, I know, but if you look into those criticisms - they're not centered around practical concerns such as gene pollution. Instead they all come from a single cause: people are generally afraid when we do what was thought to be God's work.


    But why? Is it gene deficiency or social engineering that make people to think that way? Why are we afraid? Many of them probably don't even believe in God, yet they continue to follow his laws.

    Isn't that the ultimate form of oppression, to convince people to oppress their capabilities and intelligence so willingly they can't feel they're being oppressed?


    What's wrong with playing God? We shall all be Gods one day - how can there be any drawback? The only question is how we reach that.

  2. #2
    Himster's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Why are you afraid?

    Progress is essentially inevitable.
    The problem, as I see it, is technology progressing faster than our morality and the issues that will be found in the historical future are invisible to us.
    Having appropriate ethical brakes is necessary. I'm not saying deontological brakes (God based morality) is the best or even appropriate. But imperfect brakes are better than no brakes at all.

    they're not centered around practical concerns
    Ethics primarily based on practical concerns will inevitably be reduced to sophistry. As in: can/will be used to justify any course of action as long as the hypothetical results are seen as positive from at least one perspective.

    Is it gene deficiency or social engineering that make people to think that way?
    A cautious temperament is the result of natural selection.
    One can imagine the ill-cautious of generations past jumping from cliffs without looking, tickling crocodiles, insulting kings, checking malfunctioning firearms by looking down the barrel etc.

    What's wrong with playing God? We shall all be Gods one day - how can there be any drawback?
    There is a fine line between becoming a god and becoming a daemon.
    The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are so certain of themselves, but wiser people are full of doubts.
    -Betrand Russell

  3. #3

    Default Re: Why are you afraid?

    I think that the main issue here is not that people are "afraid of progress", they are more afraid of how new technology would be used in current society they live in, where things like medicine and healthcare are heavily commodified and where there is a long history of healthcare professionals doing some pretty terrible things, from eugenics and lobotomy to modern-day Big Pharma hooking up millions on opiates.

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    basics's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Why are you afraid?

    Heathen Hammer,

    I think the biggest connection to fear is death something that looms over us even from an early age. We tinker with life in so many ways and progress is just another additive to that.

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    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: Why are you afraid?

    Quote Originally Posted by basics View Post
    Heathen Hammer,

    I think the biggest connection to fear is death something that looms over us even from an early age. We tinker with life in so many ways and progress is just another additive to that.
    Well in the OP example just cruelty.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

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    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

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    basics's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Why are you afraid?

    Quote Originally Posted by conon394 View Post
    Well in the OP example just cruelty.
    conon394,

    Sorry, but I don't know what OP stands for nor where the cruelty comes in.

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    basics's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Why are you afraid?

    AqD,

    There's quite a difference between being God and us playing god. If Darwin be correct then none of us will be anything at all, and if God be correct, and He usually is, not one of us will live to make such a claim, why? Well the answer is so obvious in that when ever did the clay tell the Potter what to do?

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    Tribunus
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    Default Re: Why are you afraid?

    Quote Originally Posted by basics View Post
    AqD,

    There's quite a difference between being God and us playing god.
    Quite true, if I left my newborn children in a garden with lethal fruit and a venomous snake on the loose I'd be locked up, but He gets worshipped smh.

    Quote Originally Posted by basics View Post
    If Darwin be correct then none of us will be anything at all, and if God be correct, and He usually is, not one of us will live to make such a claim,
    Yeah God told Adam if he ate the fruit on that day he would die and it didn't happen, so much for God's claims. Was he drunk the entire time he was in Eden? "Come over here Adam, I have some animals for you to name, and if you really like one you can marry it. No? Ok gimme your rib then..."

    As for Darwin he was a humble, tender-hearted Christian, believed in the Good News and everything. Paul would have embraced him as a true follower of Christ but for some weird reason on little sect of Christianity spread this nonsense that he was a raving atheist. I guess facts just don't matter.

    Quote Originally Posted by basics View Post
    why? Well the answer is so obvious in that when ever did the clay tell the Potter what to do?
    Um old chap when did the potter get the clay pregnant? Pretty weird old potter if you ask me.

    As for me I'm more of a jar, and a bit cracked. Did the potter's hand slip when He made me?
    Jatte lambastes Calico Rat

  9. #9

    Default Re: Why are you afraid?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    As for Darwin he was a humble, tender-hearted Christian, believed in the Good News and everything. Paul would have embraced him as a true follower of Christ but for some weird reason on little sect of Christianity spread this nonsense that he was a raving atheist. I guess facts just don't matter.
    From what I can tell, he was a self-identified Agnostic who openly rejected Christ and the Bible.

    "I am sorry to have to inform you that I do not believe in the Bible as a divine revelation, & therefore not in Jesus Christ as the Son of God"
    "I think that generally (& more and more so as I grow older) but not always, that an agnostic would be the most correct description of my state of mind."
    In uncharacteristically bold discussions after dinner Darwin asked his guests "Why do you call yourselves Atheists?" When they responded that they "did not commit the folly of god-denial, [and] avoided with equal care the folly of god-assertion", Darwin gave a thoughtful response, concluding that "I am with you in thought, but I should prefer the word Agnostic to the word Atheist." Aveling replied that, "after all, 'Agnostic' was but 'Atheist' writ respectable, and 'Atheist' was only 'Agnostic' writ aggressive." Darwin smiled and responded "Why should you be so aggressive? Is anything gained by trying to force these new ideas upon the mass of mankind? It is all very well for educated, cultured, thoughtful people; but are the masses yet ripe for it?"
    Whether a man of such views can be considered humble, tender-hearted or Christian, I leave it to you to decide.
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    Tribunus
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    Default Re: Why are you afraid?

    Quote Originally Posted by Prodromos View Post
    From what I can tell, he was a self-identified Agnostic who openly rejected Christ and the Bible.
    Whether a man of such views can be considered humble, tender-hearted or Christian, I leave it to you to decide.
    Thank you very much for correcting my crass ignorance, my faulty recollection seems to have been based on his mind set as a young man, but for the greatest part of his life its definitely true he was not a Pauline Christian, but as you say a definite agnostic.

    I am once again grateful to have my errors pointed out and to learn something, and I am indebted to you.

    Is it fair to suggest Darwin acted with reasonable good faith and charity toward his supporters, friends, family and critics? He seems to have been patient and humble, if a little grumbly at times.
    Jatte lambastes Calico Rat

  11. #11

    Default Re: Why are you afraid?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    Thank you very much for correcting my crass ignorance, my faulty recollection seems to have been based on his mind set as a young man, but for the greatest part of his life its definitely true he was not a Pauline Christian, but as you say a definite agnostic.

    I am once again grateful to have my errors pointed out and to learn something, and I am indebted to you.

    Is it fair to suggest Darwin acted with reasonable good faith and charity toward his supporters, friends, family and critics? He seems to have been patient and humble, if a little grumbly at times.
    I'm afraid I don't know enough about the man's personal life to form an opinion on it. What I know about his character comes primarily from the Wikipedia article dedicated to his religious views, which paints an image of a prideful man with a low view of God's holiness and a high view of his own righteousness.
    Last edited by Prodromos; July 09, 2021 at 08:45 AM.
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    basics's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Why are you afraid?

    Cyclops,

    Well for a start Adam and Eve weren't born, they were created and placed in a garden that contained nothing lethal. The forbidden fruit was knowledge of good and evil which if they had obeyed and believed God they wouldn't have touched it. That said there was one personality in the garden in the shape of a serpent who persuaded them that they could eat of that tree and surely not die whatever death was.

    Upon eating the fruit they immediately realised they were naked, both bodily and shamefully and like children which they weren't they tried to hide as well as cover themselves. Did they die immediately? No they didn't yet they had to live with the fear of death for the rest of their lives which were prolonged to populate the earth. There is no doubt that they did die but not until their purpose for being there was finished.

    Like many religious people Darwin did not follow God's word, did not believe that God created all things in six wonderful days so he followed others in the making up of the evolutionary theory which is the same mistake Adam and Eve made by disbelieving God and therefore disobeying Him. He was no Christian.

    Your not a bit cracked ole fella just a bit upside down from where I am sitting.

  13. #13
    Tribunus
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    Default Re: Why are you afraid?

    Quote Originally Posted by basics View Post
    Cyclops,

    Well for a start Adam and Eve weren't born, they were created and placed in a garden that contained nothing lethal...
    ...and yet they died. I'm telling you if I did that, shortened the lifespan of two newborns through crass negligence ( God left them alone with a snake! A venomous snake you insist was Satan!) and left them with lifelong pain and suffering before they died I'd be off to gaol.

    i guess that's the problem with these unnatural families, God was trying to "do it all" and be a single parent, when he should have been married. "On Earth as it is in Heaven" so what, the Pope is more like God than most Christians because he's a bachelor? I doubt that very much.

    He had a son already (who also died young) and he has two more children, and he just leaves them unsupervised while he's off doing what? Fair dinkum call child services.
    Jatte lambastes Calico Rat

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    basics's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Why are you afraid?

    Cyclops,

    Our existence was written of before He created the heaven and the earth and done for His good pleasure. Each part has been played out and will be played out until He makes that final judgement. You are only trying to rewrite with your suggestions what cannot be rewritten. Every word you put down on print He already knows. He even came to us as one of the players yet the penny never dropped and still hasn't for most of the other actors in this story. There never has been nor ever will be such an Author and so my prayer for your sake is that you too will get that call before death takes hold. The death and resurrection of Jesus Christ should be proof enough.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Why are you afraid?

    Quote Originally Posted by basics View Post
    AqD,

    There's quite a difference between being God and us playing god. If Darwin be correct then none of us will be anything at all, and if God be correct, and He usually is, not one of us will live to make such a claim, why? Well the answer is so obvious in that when ever did the clay tell the Potter what to do?
    Darwin was proven correct, and god is an imaginary character, so you can give him any kind of superpowers you want.
    Optio, Legio I Latina

  16. #16
    Akar's Avatar I am not a clever man
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    Default Re: Why are you afraid?

    If Darwin be correct then none of us will be anything at all,
    Huh?

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  17. #17
    Akar's Avatar I am not a clever man
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    Default Re: Why are you afraid?

    From what I can tell, he was a self-identified Agnostic who openly rejected Christ and the Bible.
    Like many religious people Darwin did not follow God's word, did not believe that God created all things in six wonderful days so he followed others in the making up of the evolutionary theory which is the same mistake Adam and Eve made by disbelieving God and therefore disobeying Him. He was no Christian.
    Is the inability to detect sarcasm endemic to Christians?

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  18. #18

    Default Re: Why are you afraid?

    Quote Originally Posted by Akar View Post
    Is the inability to detect sarcasm endemic to Christians?
    Well, I've heard people unironically state that Joe Biden is a "devout Christian", so you never know.
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  19. #19
    basics's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Why are you afraid?

    Akar,

    Your first quote I never wrote. I don't see any sarcasm in what I did write so perhaps you might enlighten this dimwit?

  20. #20

    Default Re: Why are you afraid?

    Delete this post.
    Last edited by Gromovnik; July 06, 2021 at 06:45 AM. Reason: double post
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