Chinese Astronauts Board Space Station Implementing Humanity's Best Shot To Become Interstellar

[Exarch]

Weren't you just literally just scoffing at the ISS and the fact that will soon be retired, and that it is inferior technology to the new Chinese station space? That attitude doesn't sound like neutrality to me.

Oh, here it is, from the Political Academy thread...

Voyager and Webb are projects that will benefit all of humankind; the ISS is simply a budget sink for the US to drain rival countries of their space funding- in fact, one of the key reasons why the US wanted Russians working on ISS was so that they wouldn't be working on Russian weapons tech.

The ISS as a project is sound; under anglo America leadership it is a complete disaster for the purposes of attaining Type I Kardeshev civilisation. This is proven by the fact that after 3 decades of anglo american acquisition of soviet tech and research, we are no closer to off world colonies. Not even a return to the Moon after 50 years.

Meanwhile, Chinese taikonauts are busy at work:





That's the new Feitian spacesuit btw, based on research when previous taikonauts used the Russian Orlan spacesuit.

Also, note the sleeping cots:

[conon394]

Type I Kardeshev civilisation

A a napkin scale that is of more use to science fiction writers than reality. You do realize the Chinese space station does nothing to advance alone this wonderfully pointless scale either. The one really solid score for it is if does allow potential space walks for a potential low earth orbit observatory we all gain since the risk of robotics is the one off catastrophic fail (although that is contrasted by the vast cost of maned travel. In LEO its a good trade)

after 3 decades of anglo american acquisition of soviet tech and research, we are no closer to off world colonies. Not even a return to the Moon after 50 years.

OK start knocking off the reasons to return to the moon? What are they in fact?

[Exarch]

A a napkin scale that is of more use to science fiction writers than reality. You do realize the Chinese space station does nothing to advance alone this wonderfully pointless scale either. The one really solid score for it is if does allow potential space walks for a potential low earth orbit observatory we all gain since the risk of robotics is the one off catastrophic fail (although that is contrasted by the vast cost of maned travel. In LEO its a good trade)

Your post reflects the parochialism and short sightedness of modern America and reveals just how and why the United States has fallen so far.
Capitalist anglo endeavours which prize profit above all else inevitably implode- where is the will to power, the drive for excellent, the Faustian drive for knowledge that white anglos used to have?
Sadly, it appears this drive was merely powered by profit rather than a desire for human excellence as we now see with the Chinese space program.

OK start knocking off the reasons to return to the moon? What are they in fact?

to build a BFG for the Hell Invasion, duh!

@topic, President Xi addresses the Taikonauts from Mission Control.



Meanwhile the anglo americans are sucking on sour grapes issuing a religious edict forbidding all white anglos to work with chinese in space:

Bill Nelson says he supports making the Wolf amendment "permanent." This prohibits direct cooperation between NASA and China in space. This is significant.

https://twitter.com/SciGuySpace/stat...19685660020743

btw Nelson used to be an astronaut, evidently NASA is now being run by religious fanatics of the Trump faction, as opposed to the new religion of BLM; naturally, this is not conducive to making americans an interstellar civilisation.

The FBI is already harassing american space scientists over scientific collaboration with Chinese scientists; in fact, the FBI got caught committing fraud in pursuit of their witch-hunt.
https://theintercept.com/2021/06/23/...ial-fbi-china/

This reminds me of how the Papacy once tried to forbid drinking coffee because the Arabs and muslims were drinking it.

[EmperorBatman999]

Ok, so I know people who worked for Bill Nelson and his wife, and they are definitely not Trump-ites: they're Clintonites, dyed-in-the-wool establishment Democrats. They helped Biden in his election, and Nelson got rewarded with NASA for it, even though Bill Nelson is developing dementia and is often not even lucid. Take that as you will.

If you can't properly identify the political allegiance of relevant American leaders, how can we believe anything else you say?

[Exarch]

Ok, so I know people who worked for Bill Nelson and his wife, and they are definitely not Trump-ites: they're Clintonites, dyed-in-the-wool establishment Democrats. They helped Biden in his election, and Nelson got rewarded with NASA for it, even though Bill Nelson is developing dementia and is often not even lucid. Take that as you will.

If you can't properly identify the political allegiance of relevant American leaders, how can we believe anything else you say?

A Clintonite who advocates Trumpist policies makes him what? Do i have to say it? Altogether now... a Trumpist.

In fact, US policies under Biden have not changed since Trump, if we are to continue with the fiction that there is such a thing as real democracy in the United States as opposed to an oligarchy of capitalists then it can be seen that the oligarchy of the United States lacks the leadership for space research.

That Bill Nelson - a self proclaimed Establishment Democrat- to now advocate Trumpsit policies indicates the direction that NASA is going and it is definitely anti science.

EDIT: Unless of course, you believe it is to the benefit of science for scientists in China and American to not collaborate?

[Common Soldier]

Witness the future:



european astronauts speaking fluent mandarin- which they're going to need to know when they're up there in the Chinese Space Station. anglo american astronauts who lowered themselves to learn Russian are going to have to learn Chinese if they want to make it off-planet. Unless of course, they're hoping to place their trust in for-profit, corporate, lowest common denominator spacecraft.

Unlikely to happen. Chinese language is too different and writing system far too hard for most of the world to learn it.

I was surprised to see the Wuhun Institute for Virology in China had its name in English.

Actually i hope Voyager and the James Webb do well; unlike you lot, i am neutral when it comes to space research. All of humanity benefits when space Research is conducted, however given the USG position that absolutely no cooperation with china must be done, not even for the sake of humanity- well it's clear which faction is clearly immoral and unworthy of spreading off planet.

The US does not cooperate with China because of the dishonesty of China and its massive intellectual theft and lack of respect for intellectual property rights

The US has cooperated with other countries that respect intellectual property rights, as the ISS proves. It is China that doesn't cooperate with other countries, the recent deal with Russia being a singular exception. I don't see any but Chinese on the Chinese space station.

The US would be willing to cooperate with China if China was not so fundamentally dishonest.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/william...h=7d90371d4562

https://www.scmp.com/lifestyle/artic...st-study-finds

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/50-n...ry?id=72028154

https://brandongaille.com/24-remarka...ds-statistics/

This is why America is failing, in space of all things: you only consider projects in terms of monetary value- consistent with the viewpoints of the founding fathers who were slavers and capitalists. All the money in the world, all the gold and bitcoin won't count for squat if the sun goes supernova, or if earth is hit by a gamma ray burst or if we're hit by an extinction level asteroid. Space colonisation is absolutely essential for the survival of the human race.

So far, all China's manage to do is duplicate what the US has done decades earlier. Even China's new space station is a disappointment. One of the things I don't see in China's new station is experiments to test low gravity, say Mars or the Moon level, on humans or mammals. The ISS was to originally have such ability but it was thrifted out. If we are interested in colonizing Mars or itger planets, we need to know how less than 1g will effect humans long
term. China could have added that ability for the benefit of mankind, but did not.

I'll bet the Webb can't connect to the ISS...wait, will there still be an ISS when Webb is launched?

You don't want humans around when you operate your space telescopes. It is far, far better to operate them remotely. Escaping gas, other things fron suits can contaminate the view, and on the James Webb people are the last things you want around it. People produce heat, infrared light and the Webb is an infrared telescope. You want the Webb as far away from people as you can. In matter of fact, the Webb will operate far away from Earth, much further out than any Chinese astronaut has ever gine or that China even has the capability of sending people to. Even the reflected heat of the Earth you want to locate the Webb from

It must be the inferiority of China's robotic controls that they they require human access to their telescope. You are far better to operate them remotely remotely if you can. .

How many projects has NASA announced only for Congress to scrap it?

When you have ambitious plans and are doing what no one has ever done before, not all of them will come off. So far, everything China has done the US had done 40 to 59 years earlier.
* First Chinese probe landing on Mars, only 44 years after the US.
* First Chinese probe landing on the Moon, 50 years after US landed men on the Moon.
* First Chinese space telescope comparable to Hubble - 30 years after the US
* First Chinese space station - 20 years after the ISS
* First Chinese space probe to the outer solar system: NONE. Chinese have not managed that yet

[Gromovnik]

Oh, all of you will learn Chinese. And you will like it. It will be glorious.

[Exarch]

Unlikely to happen. Chinese language is too different and writing system far too hard for most of the world to learn it.

This is merely a reflection of yourself and the broader reason why the anglos are failing; whereas European astronauts not only have Olympic level fitness and PhD level materials science intelligence, they can knock out a conversational level of mandarin perfectly. The lady's tones were perfect.

Your resistance to even learn a new language reveals just how far the United States has fallen not just in space science but attitudes towards learning.

I was surprised to see the Wuhun Institute for Virology in China had its name in English.

Unlike fragile anglos who become Karens whenever they see that Chinatown is bilingual, the Chinese are an open society and welcoming of foreigners. You'll see bilingual signs in most major cities and metro stations but you won't see Chinese ppl getting their panties in a twist over bilingual signs. That behaviour appears to be a feature in the anglosphere.

The US does not cooperate with China because of the dishonesty of China and its massive intellectual theft and lack of respect for intellectual property rights

The US has cooperated with other countries that respect intellectual property rights, as the ISS proves. It is China that doesn't cooperate with other countries, the recent deal with Russia being a singular exception. I don't see any but Chinese on the Chinese space station.

The US would be willing to cooperate with China if China was not so fundamentally dishonest.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/william...h=7d90371d4562

https://www.scmp.com/lifestyle/artic...st-study-finds

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/50-n...ry?id=72028154

https://brandongaille.com/24-remarka...ds-statistics/

Regurgitating anglo propaganda does nothing to help your argument any more than a Red Guard reciting Mao's Little Red Book helped China to launch its first satellite. You're basically doing the equivalent of shouting 'Black Lives Matter" and thinking it helps make America satellites get launched.

So far, all China's manage to do is duplicate what the US has done decades earlier. Even China's new space station is a disappointment. One of the things I don't see in China's new station is experiments to test low gravity, say Mars or the Moon level, on humans or mammals. The ISS was to originally have such ability but it was thrifted out. If we are interested in colonizing Mars or itger planets, we need to know how less than 1g will effect humans long
term. China could have added that ability for the benefit of mankind, but did not.

... salt and vinegar chips

If it was really so easy as you put it, why didn't the americans get that off world colony started? What stopped them?

I can answer that for you: incompetence.
failure of leadership and religious dogma and opposition to science prevented the anglo americans from achieving space dominance.

[Gromovnik]

Anglos should really cut down on their racism and accept that other cultures are a thing.

[conon394]

If it was really so easy as you put it, why didn't the americans get that off world colony started? What stopped them?

I can answer that for you: incompetence.

Here let me fix that you meant to say colossal waste of money.

[conon394]

double

[conon394]

The FBI is already harassing american space scientists over scientific collaboration with Chinese scientists; in fact, the FBI got caught committing fraud in pursuit of their witch-hunt.

Lucky for Hu he was not a reporter in Hong Kong.

[Common Soldier]

This is merely a reflection of yourself and the broader reason why the anglos are failing; whereas European astronauts not only have Olympic level fitness and PhD level materials science intelligence, they can knock out a conversational level of mandarin perfectly. The lady's tones were perfect.

The reality is that even China realizes the rest of world is not going to learn Chinese.

Your resistance to even learn a new language reveals just how far the United States has fallen not just in space science but attitudes towards learning.

I don't have a resistance to learning a new language, I would not mind having to learn Chinese. But Chinese is a hard language to learn, there is no denying the Chinese writing is excessively hard and complex. I don't have to learn Chinese, and wont ever have to, and so I probably won't.

English is still the language that every international airline pilot must learn, and Chinese egotism isn't going to change that. English is thr internationation language if aviation in part because the US invented the airplane.

Unlike fragile anglos who become Karens whenever they see that Chinatown is bilingual, the Chinese are an open society and welcoming of foreigners. You'll see bilingual signs in most major cities and metro stations but you won't see Chinese ppl getting their panties in a twist over bilingual signs. That behaviour appears to be a feature in the anglosphere.

Actually, the reverse is true. It is the Chinese who have tge fragile egos and continually gave to exaggerate and overcompensate. Nothing can change the fact the US built the first airplane, the first laser, the first transistor, the first integrated chip, the first land men on the moon, the only ones to send space probes to the outer solar system (except for the Titan probe the Europeans hitched a ride on ). Nothing China will do us going to change that.

It is Chinese like you that boast of accomplishments that the US had achieved decades earlier. Building a space station 20 years later than the US is not something to boast of. China's building a space telescope 30 years after the Hubble is not all that impressive. Nothing China had done so far or is planning isn't something the US hasn't already essentially done. China's probe to the far side of the moon was an achievement, but the US bright back 10 times as many moon rocks decades ago than China, and the US was more interested in sending probes where no one has been like Pluto than going to where it already has been

Regurgitating anglo propaganda does nothing to help your argument any more than a Red https://www.loc.gov/law/help/apostasy/ reciting Mao's Little Red Book helped China to launch its first satellite. You're basically doing the equivalent of shouting 'Black Lives Matter" and thinking it helps make America satellites get launched.

The only one regurgitating propaganda is you. Unlike China, which is repeating US steps in an attempt to show Chinese superiority, the US has no need to show superiority, the US has already done so. The fact that nobody else has had a manned mission to the moon in over 50 years proves it. Nobody else has sent a mission to Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune and Pluto. Use has had 5 probes heading out to interstellar space, nobody else, including China, has had even 1.

I would be more impressed with China if it had really done something cutting edge, something completely beyond what anybody else had done, but China hasn't. Duplicating what the US did 30, 50 years ago? Yawn

If it was really so easy as you put it, why didn't the americans get that off world colony started? What stopped them?

US would rather build space probes to learn about the universe, Americans don't suffer self esteem issues like you and other Chinese, and boast about accomplishments the US managed to do 20, 30, 50 years earlier

failure of leadership and religious dogma and opposition

It is a failure of leadership and political dogma that China lacked the courage to do something new and cutting wdge, something nobody else had done, instead of metely duplicating what the US had done decades earlier.

Why are you Chinese so insecure? Why do you have so little self esteem you have to exaggerate your own accomplishments and belittle the real achievements of others? Ok, the Chinese space telescope is not the groundbreaking achievement the Hubble was, but it is still an achievement to be proud of, so why do you belittle the real achievements of the Hubble and ISS achievements?

[EmperorBatman999]

Regarding language: again here we see oscillation and inconsistency between playing the Good Cop/Bad Cop routine (or, should I say, Good Cop/Wolf Warrior?), saying that China is tolerant and is so kind to foreigners to have English signage, but then threatens that we will all need to learn Chinese in the near future, or else.

Maybe part of why people don’t listen to China is that their messaging is this insanely garbled, switching between petty flattery and then unqualified threats?

[Common Soldier]

Anglos should really cut down on their racism and accept that other cultures are a thing.

Perhaps the Chinese should stop being hypocrites snd practice what they preach, instead of continuing to trying to suppress Tibetan culture and wipe the Uighur and their culture as China is currently doing
Only when China's backwardness was rubbed in their faces and could not be denied did the Chinese stop asserting that the Westerners were backwards and that China was not superior to everybody. It seems that despite the century of humiliation, the Chinese have not learned a jot of humility, not based on all the modern Chinese like Exarch

[Exarch]

China plans to send its first crewed mission to Mars in 2033 and build a base there

Source: https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/24/chin...s-in-2033.html

Chinese Martian super base coming soon; Chinese civilisation will take humanity to the stars.

The reality is that even China realizes the rest of world is not going to learn Chinese.

I don't have a resistance to learning a new language, I would not mind having to learn Chinese. But Chinese is a hard language to learn, there is no denying the Chinese writing is excessively hard and complex. I don't have to learn Chinese, and wont ever have to, and so I probably won't.

English is still the language that every international airline pilot must learn, and Chinese egotism isn't going to change that. English is thr internationation language if aviation in part because the US invented the airplane.

Millions of people around the world learn Chinese; africans, middle easterners, Europeans, Russians, even pure Aryans from nordic countries and americans and all of them have no issues with learning Chinese. Why do you find it so hard? Some of my best memories studying in China were with Russian girls who couldn't speak english but spoke fluent mandarin.

And i'll tell you, when astronauts need to know chinese in order to survive in space, they're going to learn Chinese. Otherwise they'll be like Sandra Bullock in "Gravity" coasting along by luck and the Protagonist's Shield.

Regarding language: again here we see oscillation and inconsistency between playing the Good Cop/Bad Cop routine (or, should I say, Good Cop/Wolf Warrior?), saying that China is tolerant and is so kind to foreigners to have English signage, but then threatens that we will all need to learn Chinese in the near future, or else.

Maybe part of why people donÂ’t listen to China is that their messaging is this insanely garbled, switching between petty flattery and then unqualified threats?

Lingua franca of the world change all the time which is why none of us speak latin or greek anymore; in fact at one point in time the language of the sciences was German given the breakthroughs coming out of germany at the time, which is why german terms are still used in chemistry.
Chinese will be the language of space in the future, and parochials like our friends here will simply have to deal with it.

On that note,
People who say that chinese is hard to learn have never learnt hungarian or Tolkien's sindarin.

[conon394]

Source: https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/24/chin...s-in-2033.html

Chinese Martian super base coming soon; Chinese civilisation will take humanity to the stars.

Wow cool announced plans. I am really excited. You know I can announce plans to my wife tonight that I really will find the last documentation I need to complete our tax return.... I am pretty sure I will get an eye role. So what Exarch? Mars is not the stars and you have source or describe any point to sending people there at immense cost when we a are still busy un terraforming our existing world.

Sorry for the cost of that I would rather shelve the national dick length contest and buy an F-150 lighting for every red neck in america. In a red state.

Millions of people around the world learn Chinese; africans, middle easterners, Europeans, Russians, even pure Aryans from nordic countries and americans and all of them have no issues with learning Chinese. Why do you find it so hard? Some of my best memories studying in China were with Russian girls who couldn't speak english but spoke fluent mandarin.

English (very easily) and French easily beat Mandarin as a second language

why none of us speak latin or greek anymore

You don't I do... And the failing bits of Polish, German and Russian my Grandmother still could recall. I'm admit my Aramaic is completely crap and I could at best translate something like one page moth with reference material.

[Exarch]

Wow cool announced plans. I really excited. You know I can announce plans to wife tonight that I really will find the last documentation I need to complete our tax return.... I pretty sure I will get an eye role. So what Exarch Mars is not the stars and you have source or describe any point to sending people there at immense cost when we a are still busy un terraforming our existing world.

Sorry for the cost of that I would rather shelve the national dick length contest and buy an F-150 lighting for every red neck in america. In a red state.

An F-150 is an even bigger waste of money; what the hell are you going to use it on? War with China? Russia? War with a nuclear power means we all die but i wouldn't put it past the crybaby policies of the USG Elites who would rather upend the game board when they're losing.

At least a Martian colony gives us the chance to endure, for the survival of the species. Carl Sagan would be proud of China and would want to join Chinese Taikonauts on the first rocket to Mars.

English (very easily) and French easily beat Mandarin as a second language

I'm sure the church said the same thing about latin as well.

I'll grant that the french are a superior people and culture to the anglos; they have an appreciation for life and the arts that is sorely lacking in the United States.

[Lord Thesaurian]

An F-150 is an even bigger waste of money; what the hell are you going to use it on? War with China? Russia?

I beg your pardon sir. The F-150 has numerous peacetime applications. It’s the 2021 North American truck of the year, with a military grade aluminum-alloy body and torture-tested, high strength steel frame. No matter how hard Chinese firms try to copy it, there’s nothing quite like American horsepower, built Ford tough.

Though it may look a lot like the F-150 Raptor, rest assured, the General is not quite up to spec. Instead of finding Ford’s 3.5L EcoBoost V6 under the hood, buyers will discover either a 2.0L gas-powered turbocharged four-cylinder or a 2.0L or 2.5L diesel powerplant. The gas engine produces a mere 238 horsepower, while the remaining specs haven’t been released yet.

In lieu of Ford’s 10-speed automatic transmission, the General makes due with a ZF eight-speed manual, no matter what the engine choice, which is undoubtedly interesting. And that’s not really where the lack of similarities ends, either. Apparently, the General is a mid-size pickup, so it’s also smaller than the real Raptor.

Regardless, this is just another blemish on the reputation of Chinese automakers that can’t seem to come up with an original idea. We get that the F-150 Raptor is awesome, but perhaps the folks designing these vehicles should come up with something different, yet similar. Kinda like the Ram TRX, for example.
https://fordauthority.com/2020/09/ch...e-big-general/

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Today, Ford rules the highways and the backroads. Tomorrow, the Solar System (tm).

[EmperorBatman999]

Ah yes, Hungarian, a language so complicated that Hungary's own aristocracy continued speaking Latin until the 1840s (if not later) in order to avoid learning and using it. Only when the Hungarian language became fetishized as part of nationalism did the aristocrats like Kossuth embrace Hungarian in order to win over the peasantry in gaining independence over the Habsburgs.

Curiously, the Hungarian story gives us a cautionary tale of linguistic and cultural chauvinism and what happens when one culture becomes too arrogant about its own superiority and tries imposing its ways onto others. First, of course, it started with a perception that Hungarian culture itself was under attack, when the Austrian emperors like Joseph I and his successors tried imposing the German language and a German-speaking bureaucracy onto Hungary. In 1867, when the Hungarians finally won autonomy over their half of the empire, they used their newfound dominance to emulate as the German-speakers had done, by imposing Hungarian culture and language onto the Slovaks, Croats, and Romanians. This Magyarization created intense resentment among the nationalities under the Hungarian thumb, and their anger led to the political instability which set the stage for World War I, and then later the fascism of the Croatian Ustashe, Tiso's Slovak State, and the Romanian Iron Guard during World War II.

Also, Latin and Greek continue to survive substantially in English and other world languages. Latin terminology is still heavily prevalent in the realms of law, medicine, and science. Greek, meanwhile, has given us the terms for politics and philosophy, and consequently, Greek words continue to live on in those academic disciplines as well.

If anything, the lingua franca is not so much a shift but an evolution. Latin was heavily influenced by Greek, and French then descended from a dialect of Vulgar Latin. English then became heavily influenced by French after the Norman Invasion, and now 30% of English words are of French descent. This actually reminds me of a humorous meme where, following Brexit, a group of British nationalists called for a petition to remove the French from British passports and legal documents, but almost all the words on the phrasing of the petition were actually from French!


The lingua franca evolves towards simplicity: French does away with the complex grammar and declination of Latin, while English removes gender entirely. The challenge with English lies in an inconsistent spelling system.

Even German was heavily influenced by Latin and French, and if anything, German retains more artifacts from ancient Latin than Latin's own legitimate descendants, such as the case system and some grammar structures. It is still more complicated than English or French, and the language came to be associated with the language of violence and force (a reputation it is still besmirched by today, see, for example, the notorious "Butterfly/Farfall/Papillon/SCHMETTERLING" video on Youtube), and that would make it harder for it become adopted as a lingua franca. Force is only part of the equation in terms of establishing a lingua franca.

I don't really consider your anecdote about you and the Russians in China to be a valid microcosm: of course you would both interact in Chinese, it was what you all needed in common in order to interact with the locals. When I studied in Austria, I had to rely on my German to communicate with many foreign students around me, but I don't expect German to become the next lingua franca by any means even though I speak it. At the time, German was simply the means of communicate that I and the other students had in common. In that case, it was a mere tool to achieve the end of understanding.

Let's also see Chinese try and overwrite all the English-language naming and mapping of space, and let's see it try to replace English in scientific literature. It would take a sudden and cataclysmic collapse in order to fully eradicate English from it's position, and that is highly unlikely still at this time.

If anything, the Indian variant of English will take over as the dominant form of English, replacing the American English, which replaced the Queen's English.