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  1. #1
    MathiasOfAthens's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Politically incorrect>

    This is not a rant or complaint whatsoever. I only wish to put this out and see what the community has to say.

    Recently I was playing the barebones mod as the julii faction. I began my compaign by building up an army or two to conquer northern italy and then proceded into southern Gaul. After I managed to take all of Gaul I proceded into Iberia, and about fifty years later Iberia succumb. I am still pacifying southwestern Gaul and Northwestern Iberia. After my first invasion of Gaul and before I moved into Iberia, I was met by the Brittanic faction at the channel. They managed to cross the sea and took the nearest city. Couple turns later they had struck as far south as Marseilles, Gaul was cut in half and there were frequent incursions by the Iberians into Narbo. Eventually I pushed the Brits back into the sea save a city in Belgium, they just simply won't give it up. Destroy one army and two more come from across the sea. Enough said that the AI sucks.

    Now heres what bothers me. Rome total war takes place in the age of tribes, city-states, empires, and kingdoms. There were no nation-states. Thus the Factions in the game shouldn't portray Gaul as a united faction as they portray it as a civilization. Up to Julius Caesar the only times the factions united was in coalitions to resist the romans or the germans. In Gaul there were the celts and the gaels who were further seperated into further tribes that control cities or villages that were certainly no more than a couple miles of territory. In Briton the same can be said. Tribes in the north, tribes in the south. Brigantians, celts, and gaels. The strongest tribe was center at camulundum, northeast of London.

    So... what does this come down to? Factions should represent a single tribe instead the who civilization. They should control one city on the vanilla map. For Gaul for instance, every other provine would be rebel owned and strong enough to resist several invasions in order to prevent ai from expanding too fast. The Factions in General game would be the individual tribe instead of the overarching ethnic group or civilization. The Romans have already been seperated. The Carthaginians were done well, they were an empire. The Greeks in several rtw mods portray the faction as an empire stretching across the mediterean. The Faction should instead focus on a city such as corinth, while the Greek colonies revolt to rebels with Greek units garrisoning them with Greek rebels names obviously. Barbarian factions in the north and in the east are done in the same way.

    As I realize that Hegemonia will not be doing this mod on a vanilla map which I am thankful for, the ability to make factions represent individual city states is a lot easier to accomplish. This is not a rant on hegemonia or any other mod but a forum to discuss this with others. So feel free to add your thoughts on this issue and on other mods.


    For Hegemonia. On certain barbarian factions such as the Thracians and the Illyrians do you plan to have them united at the start of the game, or perhaps have them represent the Thracians of the lower danube or the Illyrians by Epirius, where each faction begins with a single city.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Politically incorrect>

    I don't understand what you're saying

  3. #3
    Mirconus the Great's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: Politically incorrect>

    I understand what you're saying and I do love history. Therefore, I love historically accurate games and you DO have a point.

    But if each tribe was represented by a different faction, there'd be way too many factions - the game would occupy about 20-30 GB on the hard disk.

    It looks like it's easier to create historically accurate mods about later ages, about the Ancient Near/Middle/Far East or about the Greek/Roman eras for TW games. That's why I'm currently working on a mod about the Ancient Near and Middle East, featuring the invasion of the Sea People. There were only 3 bigger kingdoms and empires: the Hittite Empire, the Egyptian New Empire and the Kassite kingdom of Babylon. Nubia was undified into a kingdom, such as Elymais, the hurrites of Mitanni and Assyria. The early Ourartou were going to form a kingdom, the Mycenians were falling and so on...

    It's very good to have a great ballance between the historical accuracy and the good game sensation. Hegemonia is helped by the age when it's taking place and also by its very good modders so i can't wait to play it!
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  4. #4

    Default Re: Politically incorrect>

    Ah yes the invasion of the Sea People. Ramses III and such. Still I don't see how you could make a historically accurate mod about it- afterall the primary sources aren't that great. If you come across any really compelling/convincing information pm me won't you?


    Believe in Hegemonia... Or the Megarian will get you.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Politically incorrect>

    well there is probably enough information for a mod, but not very detailed. the sea peoples are now mostly thought as being those mercs the egyptians would hire our to aid their charioteers in close combat. they were usually the ones who would butcher fallen chariot crews. they are peoples that came from the boarder areas "barbarians".

  6. #6
    MarcusAureliusAntoninus's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Politically incorrect>

    Quote Originally Posted by scheuch13 View Post
    well there is probably enough information for a mod, but not very detailed. the sea peoples are now mostly thought as being those mercs the egyptians would hire our to aid their charioteers in close combat. they were usually the ones who would butcher fallen chariot crews. they are peoples that came from the boarder areas "barbarians".
    IIRC, these people join the Sea People, but weren't them. They just joined up with anyone who was going against those who had kept them down for so long.

    MathiasOfAthens, if you like mods that don't have unified "groups", there are some out there in the "realisim" catagory that tries to eliminate them. Examples: Europa Barbarorum, the upcoming RTR, Hegemonia (with the below question\/).

    But the question that I think was being asked here is: Is there going to be a "Thrace" faction, or will it be a certain thracian tribe that has the ability to unite thrace?

  7. #7
    MathiasOfAthens's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: Politically incorrect>

    If I remember correctly from thucydides history that there were thracian incursions into macedonia during the 5th century bce, but they were barbaric raids, im not sure exactly if they were led by any one tribe. They pretty much stopped when athens sent an army north.
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    Last edited by MathiasOfAthens; May 10, 2011 at 11:58 PM.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Thracian Empire?

    In 429 King Sitalkes led a huge invasion force of 50,000 cavalry and 100,000 infantry, including Paeonians, Odrysians and Getae, into Macedonia. They took several cities (both by assault and negotiation). The Macedonians harried the Thracians with their superior cavalry but could not meet the foe in open battle. Sitalkes also invaded the Chalkidikic cities. As far south as Thessaly preparations for invasion were made. But in the end king Sitalkes withdrew due to a combination of poor logistics and Macedonian intrigue. All he got was a Macedonioan bride!
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  9. #9
    catintheoven's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Politically incorrect>

    This Would Be All Very Well If You Were A Tribe But What If You Arent? Can These Single City States Really Stand Up Against Violent Expantionists Such As The Macedonians or The Romans? Unless There Were A Few More Notable Tribes and They Were Surrounded By Weaker Rebel Villages So They Can Expand and Fight It Out, Or Maybe Putting Tougher Villages In The Alps To Slow Roman Advance Giving The Gaulish Tribes Time to Strengthen

  10. #10
    Daminios's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: Politically incorrect>

    Mirconus .... Good to hear your working on a mod covering this period ,, Being in the distant past with plenty of grey areas regarding historical accuracy makes for one superb mod !! Will you be starting a thread soon to announce this mod ? Keep us all informed ..

  11. #11
    Mirconus the Great's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: Politically incorrect>

    Quote Originally Posted by Daminios View Post
    Mirconus .... Good to hear your working on a mod covering this period ,, Being in the distant past with plenty of grey areas regarding historical accuracy makes for one superb mod !! Will you be starting a thread soon to announce this mod ? Keep us all informed ..
    Oh, no, i'm going to work all alone at it, there will be nothing public...
    YES, I DO LOVE ANTIQUITY

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