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Thread: ancient man

  1. #121
    basics's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: ancient man

    Heathen Hammer,

    The point is that throughout history man has had to earn a living one way or another and by living I mean eating for himself and his family whether that be offspring or aging parents. Every trade had a value that not only brought an increase in wealth but more importantly jobs for the employed. So, to make a village, town and country strong and safe man had to fight until the standing army became the norm which of course required funding meaning the village, town or country had to find the funds from within otherwise there couldn't be a standing army.

  2. #122
    swabian's Avatar igni ferroque
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    Default Re: ancient man

    Quote Originally Posted by basics View Post
    Heathen Hammer,

    The point is that throughout history man has had to earn a living one way or another and by living I mean eating for himself and his family whether that be offspring or aging parents. Every trade had a value that not only brought an increase in wealth but more importantly jobs for the employed. So, to make a village, town and country strong and safe man had to fight until the standing army became the norm which of course required funding meaning the village, town or country had to find the funds from within otherwise there couldn't be a standing army.
    Or so you imagine.

    Why is it of any importance, what ancient primitives did? We certainly know better nowadays. The ancients are merely subjects to study. Curiosities. They can't be examples to us nowadays.

    "Every trade had a value that not only brought an increase in wealth but more importantly jobs for the employed."

    No. They made slaves, raided, murdered and cannibalized. Trade depended on its use for the already powerful much more than it does today. There were guilds and castes and women weren't even allowed to do anything. The difference between wealth and poverty today means whether you have a villa with a pool or if you dwell in a social housing. Back then, poverty meant that you starve to death or that you have a short life as a slave.
    Last edited by swabian; September 12, 2021 at 05:04 AM.

  3. #123
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: ancient man

    No. They made slaves, raided, murdered and cannibalized. Trade depended on its use for the already powerful much more than it does today. There were guilds and castes and women weren't even allowed to do anything. The difference between wealth and poverty today means whether you have a villa with a pool or if you dwell in a social housing. Back then, poverty meant that you starve to death or that you have a short life as a slave.
    A bit over top bleak my friend. Not quite sure how you are defining 'ancient man'. OP would suggests 'cavemen' so I assume we were originally talking abut be agricultural hunting and gather hominids of various types. Women vary much would be doing a lot of stuff in band type hominid cultures.... But if we have reentered the Mediviel or Ancient world of agriculture courtesy of HH than you are just even more inaccurate.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  4. #124
    swabian's Avatar igni ferroque
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    Default Re: ancient man

    What is "HH"?

  5. #125
    basics's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: ancient man

    swabian,

    HH is Heathen Hammer who seeks a world in which there is no big business, no rich and no hierarchy although perhaps a noble thought would be impossible to achieve. You're a little over the top when saying everyone was a slave because all that happened was murder, raiding and cannibalizing. Why even the slave was put to work for what purpose? To create wealth for the strongman and his family, relatives and other village members. If that were not the case then how did nations arise?

  6. #126
    swabian's Avatar igni ferroque
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    Default Re: ancient man

    Quote Originally Posted by basics View Post
    swabian,

    HH is Heathen Hammer who seeks a world in which there is no big business, no rich and no hierarchy although perhaps a noble thought would be impossible to achieve. You're a little over the top when saying everyone was a slave because all that happened was murder, raiding and cannibalizing. Why even the slave was put to work for what purpose? To create wealth for the strongman and his family, relatives and other village members. If that were not the case then how did nations arise?
    HH? What the actual freaking.. You've got to be kidding me

    Quote Originally Posted by conon394 View Post
    A bit over top bleak my friend. Not quite sure how you are defining 'ancient man'. OP would suggests 'cavemen' so I assume we were originally talking abut be agricultural hunting and gather hominids of various types. Women vary much would be doing a lot of stuff in band type hominid cultures.... But if we have reentered the Mediviel or Ancient world of agriculture courtesy of HH than you are just even more inaccurate.
    Yeah, I had a couple of ideas popping up and didn't care to express them orderly. Generally I think that ancient people are fascinating and very interesting to study. History in and of itself is also entertainment in part. We're all people here who are fascinated with the organization and realization of power, because it's especially military history we're talking about. In a way, we are sort of amateur or armchair managers of political and military power. It's all very interesting und fun to discuss.

    The thing is though, that in reality, we actually do know better nowadays. We are not lesser inheritors of our foremothers and forefathers, we do have greater ability and better judgement. The ancients are fascinating, but they cannot be regarded as examples. That's not even meant contemptuous, I do love my Germanic warriors, my Gauls and my Roman legionaries, but i would never see anyone of them as a basis to contextualize and organize my person and my surroundings.

    Why do i even have to say that, seriously?!

  7. #127

    Default Re: ancient man

    Quote Originally Posted by basics View Post
    swabian,

    HH is Heathen Hammer who seeks a world in which there is no big business, no rich and no hierarchy although perhaps a noble thought would be impossible to achieve. You're a little over the top when saying everyone was a slave because all that happened was murder, raiding and cannibalizing. Why even the slave was put to work for what purpose? To create wealth for the strongman and his family, relatives and other village members. If that were not the case then how did nations arise?
    That's not what I said at all. Big businesses and rich folk are fine. What's not fine is what is financial class colluding with the elites to get more political power without having a mandate to do so. In theory, in democracy everyone's vote is equal... but in modern actuality vote of corporate shareholders outweighs that of the rest of citizens.
    Looking at how modern megacorporations collude with corrupt government officials and destroy the environment and cause so many ills to the population within the nation and abroad, I can't help but see certain wisdom in ancient caste systems, where that time's equivalent of corporate CEOs were separated from the actual ruling class and visa versa.
    Quote Originally Posted by swabian View Post
    What is "HH"?
    Hulk Hogan, I'd presume.

  8. #128
    basics's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: ancient man

    Heathen Hammer,

    Then it is corruption that you are against as am I. So, start off with the government of whatever colour and nation and you get the most hideous corruptions taking place. The lobbyist is next on the list as he or she has the ability to reach the politician prepared to bargain for a price advantages for his employer. Most people who are shareholders know very little about this unless it is blown wide open. Were the world filled with honest politicians these things wouldn't happen. Therefore the answer is vetting very carefully the man or woman you intend voting for, the alternative being some of the situations you quite rightly object to.

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