The OBSOLETE WotN Faction List and FAQ

[tnick777]

WARNING: The information in this thread is now (April 2007) entirely obsolete, the stickied FAQ is the authoritative one, and even that will soon be revised. This thread is preserved for "historical" reasons, it should not be regarded as current information.

WotN takes place from 785-1050

Pagan
Abodrites
Bohemia
Bulgarian Empire
Gautland (vikings)
Kiev (Emerging) (implayable)
Danmörk (Vikings)
Lithuania
Magyars
Nomads (Rebels) (implayable)
Nordhvegr (Vikings)
Polane
Pomeranians
Prinicpality of Moravia
Saxons
Serbia
Svíthjódh (Viking)
Tavastian Tribes (Finnish)
Veleti

Catholic
Asturia
Brittany
Carolingian Empire (Frankish Empire)
Croatian Tribes
Frisians
Gwynedd
Kingdom of Dál Riada
Lombards
Munster
Northumbria
Picts
Roman Empire
Wessex

31/31


FAQ's

-What faction were added, changed and what were taken out?
Through days of research and thinking
We have added...
Picts
Kingdom of Italy
Croatian Tribes
Lithuania
We have changed...
Cyrmry to Gwynedd
Kingdom of Dalriada to Kingdom of Dal Riada
Munster to Muma

-Why is HRE, Frisia and Kingdom of Itay still in?
The Frankish Empire will be huge, and overwealming, we need to have rebellions to wear away the Empire.
I also went by this map.
http://www.euratlas.com/big/big1000.htm

-Why wasn't Mercia added?
Okay this is a big deal I guess. The map will be big map, but we also have a province limit, a faction limit and also a space limit. Wessex also gives enough.

-Will Vikings have horns on their helmets?
Only if you go to another mod... No way. We're doing it authenticly

-Is it true that Tsar Stefan Dusan IV was kicked off of doing emblems?
He wasn't 'kicked off', we have someone else doing it and he has other talents that could be used at the moment

-Is it true that your leader, tnick777, has raped, pillaged and trolled another mod?
Yes but that's history, he's learned and he won't do it again, that's for the game not the boards.


Any more questions you are welcome to ask it here

[finneys13]

You are probably going to moan that I'm back, but I thought I had explained why 'HRE', Kingdom of Italy and Burgundy cannot be in it.

Peaceful changes in dynasties cannot be shown as emerging factions in the game, there are too many variables in the family trees to take into account. And also the Carolingian empire is the HRE, just read the wiki piece on Charlemagne and what happened on Christmas Day 800, the Pope crowned him the Holy Roman Emperor. You have only looked at that map but not taken into account how that came to be (not being offence).

My alternative is instead having rebellions/emergences by different ethic groups within the HRE, such as the Frisians, Bavarians, Lombards and Saxons, perhaps happening randomly or when the Emperors authority is low.

The Frisians cannot be in the start of the game as they had already been conquered by Charlemagne in the 780s, perhaps have them as an emerging faction.

Another idea to float is having Brittany or maybe Pamplona instead of the Picts/Mercia, they would be an independent faction at the start of the game.

Please don't say the list is unchangeable, otherwise many people, not just myself, will either laugh or be bemused at the inclusion of the 'HRE', Kingdom of Italy and Burgundy.

If you have any questions, just ask me, please.

Two other points, Munster really should be called An Mhumhain, Muma was my mistake. Dál Riada has an accent over the first 'a' and doesn't really need 'Kingdom of' preceding it.

[tnick777]

Okay listen. This mod won't be 100% historically accurate, but we kept those due to the fact that we need to control Franks. I won't change anything.

Nothing will be changed. Sorry.

We need those factions to split it up. We cannot have 'peaceful' interventions.. too hard to program. Sorry.

Frisia is in for the same reason. We can push the start date back

[finneys13]

But how about having, let's say Lombards rebelling instead of a 'Kingdom of Italy', Bavarians instead of the 'HRE' and Burgundians or Saxons instead of Burgundy (there is a difference). It would be more authentic than showing dynastic splits that probably won't happen on the game's family tree.

At the very, very least remember the Carolingian Empire is the HRE, can you give a reason why there should be an emerging faction calling the 'HRE' when the HRE is already there, living and breathing? It is the very same, like Holland and the Netherlands today in normal speech, or Britain and the UK.

And could my two Irish name changes be brought into account? The Euratlas map names are wrong.

[tnick777]

Okay.. I'm down with that.

I'll go through and change that. Except HRE

[finneys13]

Okay.. I'm down with that.

I'll go through and change that. Except HRE

Thank you for changing the other two, but could you explain about the HRE? If you have a good reason I will accept it.

First paragraph of wiki on the HRE. Also have books on this era:

It [HRE] originated with the coronation of Charlemagne by Pope Leo III on Christmas Day 800 A.D. and lasted until the abdication of Emperor-elect Francis II in 1806 during the Napoleonic Wars.

In Charlemagne's Wiki article:

Matters of Charlemagne's reign came to a head in late 800. In 799, Pope Leo III had been mistreated by the Romans, who tried to put out his eyes and tear out his tongue. He was deposed and put in a monastery. Charlemagne, advised by Alcuin of York, refused to recognise the deposition. He travelled to Rome in November 800 and held a council on December 1. On December 23, Leo swore an oath of innocence. At Mass, on Christmas Day (December 25), the pope crowned Charlemagne Imperator Romanorum (Emperor of the Romans) in Saint Peter's Basilica. Einhard says that Charlemagne was ignorant of the pope's intent and did not want any such coronation:
he at first had such an aversion that he declared that he would not have set foot in the Church the day that they [the imperial titles] were conferred, although it was a great feast-day, if he could have foreseen the design of the Pope. Charlemagne thus became the renewer of the Western Roman Empire, which had expired in 476. To avoid frictions with the Byzantine Empire, Charles later styled himself, not Imperator Romanorum (a title reserved for the Byzantine emperor), but rather Imperator Romanum gubernans Imperium (emperor ruling the Roman Empire).

The Carolingian Empire = HRE, remember the Carolingian Empire was named after Charlemagne.

Another emerging faction like the Burgundians or Gascons could be added.

[selenius4tsd]

-Is it true that your leader, tnick777, has raped, pillaged and trolled another mod?
Yes but that's history, he's learned and he won't do it again, that's for the game not the boards.

Which mod was this?

[tnick777]

*cough* MTR *cough*

[tnick777]

One reason is we already have some stuff on it and it'll go to waste...

secondly Kingdom of the Franks in about 990s was totally separate than HRE.

Gah.

[finneys13]

One reason is we already have some stuff on it and it'll go to waste...

secondly Kingdom of the Franks in about 990s was totally separate than HRE.

Gah.

Dynastic progression that can't be shown in the game, at least just rename the emerging HRE as the HRE is already there from the start, well from 800.

Pretty please with a cherry on top, otherwise it would make no sense.

Also the two tiny things with the two Irish factions.

Then I will shut up about the factions, you can keep the Picts and Frisians, and the Bretons and Pamplonans/Basques can be forgotten about.

[tnick777]

they'll be emerging at like 811 I think.

[finneys13]

they'll be emerging at like 811 I think.

You are going to have the King of the Franks (Charlemagne) rebelling against himself? Two Charlemagnes on the campaign map?

[tnick777]

mmno


811 and 750 are about I'd say 61 years apart... coming of age is 16, so He'd be a minimal age of 77 when it emerges... Again.. Not gonna be 100% accurate.

[finneys13]

Charlemagne lived to 814 in real life. And you are still seeing the HRE rebelling against the HRE. If Charlemagne died in the game in 804, his son and heir, Louis the Pious would still be rebelling against Louis the Pious.

The game does start in 795? HRE literally superseded the Carolingian empire in 800, exact same leaders, just that King was now the Emperor and had to look after the Pope.

On another topic, can the two Irish names be amended?

[tnick777]

it starts in 750 now to conform to Frisia

[finneys13]

Okay, that is different. The Saxons and Lombards were still independent in 750. Here is a basic map.

Franks 750 and Franks 768

Pippin the Younger would be the Frankish King, and any case for the HRE would be even more porous, as the Franks might not become powerful enough to be crowned HR Emperors. Maybe we should just leave out the name 'HRE' altogether?

If we start at about 785, we can have the Frisians at the start being playable and the emerging Lombards/Saxons as they were conquered by then.

[Kythras]

... Franks 768...

Woo! Frisians Get Denmark!

A little mistake there, methinks...

[tnick777]

okay... sounds good.

[finneys13]

So starting in 785, and pretend the HRE never existed, find another tribe to take up their slot?

[tnick777]

HRE I'm still weary about.

785 is good