Horde faction refuses to attack cities

**es157** · May 29, 2021, 10:17 AM

Hello.

Has anyone else encountered this problem or is my game singularly broken? I'm designing a mod that has a horde faction spawning in the middle of an area that is full of cities, and three of these cities are marked as "horde_target" in descr_regions. But even though the horde starts with a quite massive army, it stays forever wandering back and forth around the place and doesn't besiege any city. They never become settled because their armies are just there acting as map features.

This situation is very annoying and ruins the point of the horde existing. Any ideas how I can hope to fix it? Perhaps a cheat that gives them one of the cities so they can settle? Or something else? Any suggestion will be appreciated.

**alhoon** · May 29, 2021, 10:52 AM

The horde doesn't attack a city that is close to where it spawns. I think the range is at least 40.

**es157** · May 29, 2021, 12:22 PM

Originally Posted by alhoon

The horde doesn't attack a city that is close to where it spawns. I think the range is at least 40.

Are you sure of that? It could explain their behavior. But then shouldn't they just walk around and search for other cities to attack?

Also given what you said, I wonder if I could spawn the horde very far from the region I want them to attack, and then use move_character on them to put them very close to the region right after they spawn.

**Callistonian** · May 29, 2021, 05:41 PM

I don't know where alhoon is getting this information, but it matches what I've seen in my game. My experience spawning hordes in the immediate vicinity of lots of settlements with horde_target has been that they walk off in a random direction (about 40 tiles I suppose) and stand around for quite a long time. Sometimes they sack settlements on the way to this point but they don't settle. Eventually, after standing around long enough for it to be annoying, they decide to settle in a different region. The region they decide to settle in usually has the horde_target HR but is outside the radius where they spawned.

Forcing hordes to attack settlements has never, in all the times I've tried it, ever succeeded in getting the horde to settle. Gifting them regions using give_everything_to_faction or capture_settlement also does not force them to settle. As far as I know, there is no mechanism for forcing a horde faction to settle in a region of your choice. Even if there is only a single region on the map with the horde_target HR, they will obstinately pick a different region every time.

You may be onto something with using move_character or move to trick the horde into thinking they're already beyond this hypothesized spawn radius. Beware that the move_character command is slightly bugged in the sense that the game still registers the character as being in the region they moved out of (they will still get mercenaries from their original region, etc.). It should be combined with 'move' to walk, rather than teleport, the character into a new region. It would be extremely useful for scripting if we could figure out how to force a horde to settle in a particular region or even the correct ballpark.

**es157** · May 30, 2021, 06:07 AM

Originally Posted by Callistonian

I don't know where alhoon is getting this information, but it matches what I've seen in my game. My experience spawning hordes in the immediate vicinity of lots of settlements with horde_target has been that they walk off in a random direction (about 40 tiles I suppose) and stand around for quite a long time. Sometimes they sack settlements on the way to this point but they don't settle. Eventually, after standing around long enough for it to be annoying, they decide to settle in a different region. The region they decide to settle in usually has the horde_target HR but is outside the radius where they spawned.

Forcing hordes to attack settlements has never, in all the times I've tried it, ever succeeded in getting the horde to settle. Gifting them regions using give_everything_to_faction or capture_settlement also does not force them to settle. As far as I know, there is no mechanism for forcing a horde faction to settle in a region of your choice. Even if there is only a single region on the map with the horde_target HR, they will obstinately pick a different region every time.

You may be onto something with using move_character or move to trick the horde into thinking they're already beyond this hypothesized spawn radius. Beware that the move_character command is slightly bugged in the sense that the game still registers the character as being in the region they moved out of (they will still get mercenaries from their original region, etc.). It should be combined with 'move' to walk, rather than teleport, the character into a new region. It would be extremely useful for scripting if we could figure out how to force a horde to settle in a particular region or even the correct ballpark.

Please tell me more about this "move" command that makes armies walk rather than teleport.

**Callistonian** · May 30, 2021, 03:49 PM

Code:

move character_name_or_label, x, y

That's all there is to it. It will order a move command for the character so that they use their movement points to walk to the destination. If they have no movement points, it will schedule the move for the next turn. It's useful for when you need to move a character out of and/or into residence. Conversely, the move_character command will teleport them to the target coordinates without spending any movement points and will result in the character becoming invisible and bugged if they were in residence when the command was issued.

**bitterhowl** · July 22, 2021, 10:06 PM

You should try to left only one horde_target and see the changes.

**es157** · July 23, 2021, 11:50 AM

I ended up employing a different method entirely.

I changed the faction from horde to no-family-tree, since both have the same particularity of being immune to defeat by conquest. Then I used script commands to force their armies to conquer a few cities early on in the game.

Indeed, I had tried having only one horde-target before, and it failed. They still don't attack the settlement.

**Jadli** · July 26, 2021, 07:17 AM

Yea, I was trying something similar, making a sea horde faction, but failed to use it via horde mechanics ( I think that had something to do with sea region instead), hence actually ended up doing the same as you, i.e., using no family tree, removing horde ability, and forced to conquer settlements... Before, they would just land in the nearest region, and then do nothing...

I have several random spawing points, hence I test to which settlement is the faction near to (I_IsFactionNearTile), and force them to attack it accordingly (kinda similar how mongols are done in the vanilla...)

Anyways, in the same time Im using some other horde factions (with horde_targets as well) at the other part of the map, and those work fine. Though I suppose thats because I dont have to emerge, as they are a starting faction, and they only become a horde once they lose their settlements, hence it works on its own and doesnt have to be scripted...

**es157** · July 26, 2021, 08:55 AM

Originally Posted by Jadli

Yea, I was trying something similar, making a sea horde faction, but failed to use it via horde mechanics ( I think that had something to do with sea region instead), hence actually ended up doing the same as you, i.e., using no family tree, removing horde ability, and forced to conquer settlements... Before, they would just land in the nearest region, and then do nothing...

I have several random spawing points, hence I test to which settlement is the faction near to (I_IsFactionNearTile), and force them to attack it accordingly (kinda similar how mongols are done in the vanilla...)

Anyways, in the same time Im using some other horde factions (with horde_targets as well) at the other part of the map, and those work fine. Though I suppose thats because I dont have to emerge, as they are a starting faction, and they only become a horde once they lose their settlements, hence it works on its own and doesnt have to be scripted...

Exactly, the horde only refuses to attack if they are spawned. It appears that they will never attack a settlement that is too close to their spawning position, regardless of it being marked as horde_target or not.

Using the no-family-tree alternative is interesting and very much guarantees success.

**Nordlaender** · June 19, 2023, 05:00 PM

Originally Posted by es157

Exactly, the horde only refuses to attack if they are spawned. It appears that they will never attack a settlement that is too close to their spawning position, regardless of it being marked as horde_target or not.

Using the no-family-tree alternative is interesting and very much guarantees success.

Hey! I came across this while looking for something else, but it is important to my mod. What happens if you do remove all horde stuff, but do not script them to attack any particular city? Will they attack nearby cities or just sit there? Do you know from testing?

**Gigantus** · June 20, 2023, 01:23 AM

Have you tried using the 'playable horde' approach? Set them up like that but keep them unplayable in descr_strat.
Apparently already existing hordes do attack, whereas spawned hordes (like vanilla mongols) have a high reluctance to do so.

It might be worthwhile to test the playable horde approach with the FL send off the map (and no other unit on the map) for spawning at a later date.

**Callistonian** · June 20, 2023, 09:37 PM

Originally Posted by Nordlaender

Hey! I came across this while looking for something else, but it is important to my mod. What happens if you do remove all horde stuff, but do not script them to attack any particular city? Will they attack nearby cities or just sit there? Do you know from testing?

I've only tried this a couple times, so I can't draw any hard conclusions, but what I've seen spawning a 'no' family tree faction with just an army and no settlements is that they just sit motionless for hundreds of turns, even if they're at war. They don't act like a horde faction, the AI just seems completely stuck. Of course, the circumstances could be different in your mod, so maybe they will attack - let us know your test results. A non-horde faction with a family tree will obviously just die on their next turn if they have no settlements.

**bitterhowl** · June 21, 2023, 01:28 AM

Sometimes the problem is in descr_campaign_ai_db, because in some mods even properly scripted horde just stood still for years. But my ai_label nomad_faction from TrueGeneral CamPAIN fixed that situation.

**Nordlaender** · June 23, 2023, 03:43 PM

Originally Posted by Callistonian

I've only tried this a couple times, so I can't draw any hard conclusions, but what I've seen spawning a 'no' family tree faction with just an army and no settlements is that they just sit motionless for hundreds of turns, even if they're at war. They don't act like a horde faction, the AI just seems completely stuck. Of course, the circumstances could be different in your mod, so maybe they will attack - let us know your test results. A non-horde faction with a family tree will obviously just die on their next turn if they have no settlements.

Hey! Thanks for that information. That is good to know. Won't waste my time going that route.

I read a long time ago that they will only go somewhere if there is just one "horde_target" city in the descr_regions file, but it was a long time ago. I have mine set up for Sarkel, but the campaign script is very weird about where they are supposed to go. Tried chopping off some of the cities but didn't think to place them at fixed positions in Volga-Bulgar to start out. I am using Gigantus Bare Geomod as the basis of my own mod.

**Nordlaender** · June 23, 2023, 06:52 PM

Hey! Thanks for that information.

I don't have that mod. I'm using Bare Geomod by Gigantus. Is nomad_faction something that can be scripted into that mod? Do you happen to know?

If it was something new that you designed for TrueCampaign, I don't know if I can replicate that in Bare Geomod. That's why I'm asking.

Thanks!