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Thread: Abolition of 501 Modding Award

  1. #1
    Morticia Iunia Bruti's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Abolition of 501 Modding Award

    The current consul asked me lately, if i would oppose as one of the bearers of the Legio 501st Modder (Silver) Award against the abolition of this award.

    No was my answer and this is still my opinion, if this improves the performance of the site.

    After some time of thinking about it, for me personally it can be taken away without any replacement, as its only a bunch of pixels and a nice comment on Steam or a "LIKE" is for me personally a bigger pleasure and motivation.

    So Curia lets do our part in improving the performance.
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  2. #2
    Akar's Avatar I am not a clever man
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    Default Re: Abolition of 501 Modding Award

    I've been in favor of doing away with this award for a couple of reasons, not including this one.

    Support.

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  3. #3
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    Default Re: Abolition of 501 Modding Award

    Medals don't affect the site performances. The main issue with the site performances as far as I get it, is the amount of user groups. But since the Curia has expressed his will to not get ride of the 3 citizens classes to keep only one, I don't think that you can expect the curia to be an example on that matter.

    On this proposal itself, I honestly don't mind at all. I'll just follow the will of the majority of the owners of it.
    Last edited by Lifthrasir; May 29, 2021 at 03:02 AM.
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  4. #4
    Emperor Commodus's Avatar citizen, allegedly
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    Default Re: Abolition of 501 Modding Award

    Thank you for movement on this. It is earlier than I'd have planned, but that's basically my excuse to be lazy and we could do without that.

    There is a multi-prong argument for me, and it was multiple prongs I raised with the OP. For one I associated medals with site performance because from the gist I got from Ged in a previous discussion, medals are a form of group and check upon page loading and in the database. If I was mistaken on this, Hex will surely correct me. Trimming down Citizen groups would be a larger step, but we may as well go one at a time. In the assumption that medals are somewhat more benign than usergroups, perhaps Artifex and Civ could become medals. But that's another matter. Perhaps the clinginess the Curia once had just isn't there anymore and progress can be made on that as well. It does pose a technical issue, one that requires more thought to execute than this suggestion.

    For two the medals present a paradox and at their root is two problems. Currently, they are a symbol of utter negligence. At best, they are a micromanaging busy-bee activity that is an excuse to do nothing of actual value to the modding community. On the latter I believe is also the true sum of the performance drop - while unused medals might not do much, tons of people wandering with deserved bronze/silver/gold/artifex in there/modding service/where do we shove in opifex would be a stretch. I'd have added the MS award to this proposal because the use case is pretty fringe and I think users who earn that and beyond are as liable to earn Opifex. The Curia never drew lines well, but this is ridiculous and the description is the worst there is on the site for the 501st - not vague enough to be like a staff award, it is highly specific for an absurdly tiny bar and is word for word repeated. So the description is worthless, its bottom level is a micromanaging silliness that can go into people just giving a damn about the modding offerings here, the mid levels basically deserve artifex and the upper levels have a hard line to draw between each other. Right now the Curia can hardly manage to use the awards it has much or offer patronage, how on earth is it going to be using the modding awards properly.

    For three has waned, I wanted to explore this idea in tandem with a functional approach to modding. I've been a little dispirited on this because I feel it requires support even at my best I will not be able to get. The rationale was basically 'don't waste time on beaurocratic nonsense, get in there and help if you care about modding', hopefully in collaboration with staff figures. Again, I'm not sure I'd be raising this anymore. But idk, the thought is there.

    Unused medals with clear neglected mandate are a joke, uber liberal used medals like they call for would probably be a performance draw + complete Curial waste of time, and I like administrative cleanliness and the medals are just... not.

    The above is pretty much it, anything else would rephrase the gist. Clear support.
    Last edited by Emperor Commodus; May 29, 2021 at 05:45 PM. Reason: I was just talking about minerals
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  5. #5
    Leonardo's Avatar Reborn Old Timer
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    Default Re: Abolition of 501 Modding Award

    Opposed.

    There are a lot of people how mod the game or other games like me (don't see this as a "how about me, when do I get a modding award?" attempt) that deserves recognition, but the majority doesn't seems to be aware of this modding award.
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  6. #6
    Morticia Iunia Bruti's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: Abolition of 501 Modding Award

    They can get the Artifex award, if they want.

    The problem with recognition for modders was and is, that citizens would have to propose modders for the award.

    This has rarely happened with the Artifex the last years, but nearly never with the 501 Award.

    The 501 Award is only given to two people so long.

    So the award has missed its purpose.

    Its unnecessary as we already have the wellknown brand "Artifex".

    And honestly, who knows that the 501 Award exist and for what he stands.

    So away with the unnecessary stuff.
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  7. #7
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    Default Re: Abolition of 501 Modding Award

    Ironically, I was drawing up some plans to nominate a few more people for the award. There are many people you would qualify but the activity levels are not what they used to be. It is a good tool in the tool box and should be retained. Better spending time finding suitable candidates than the curial equivalent of "cancel culture".

    So, opposed.

    They can get the Artifex award, if they want.
    Artifex is not an award .....



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  8. #8
    Iskar's Avatar Insanity with Dignity
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    Default Re: Abolition of 501 Modding Award

    According to the constitution it is.
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  9. #9
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    Default Re: Abolition of 501 Modding Award

    In fact, it is a very fundamental award. Its standards nebulously lie along the 501st spectrum. This is but one of the problems.

    Initially I supported a clarification bill that would redo the 501st with clear standards and vague links (silver considered for artifex, gold+ to be watched for opifex) but such things boil down to busywork, and even as much as that goes completely at the mercy of 1-2 people who might care at a given time. Add in the ambiguity and all the awards do is make people who aren't familiar scratch their heads.

    Not that they say anything better for people who are...

    The Curia can help modders by helping modders do what they do be it engage with them when needed, encourage + support or conduct efforts to clean up modding resources so modders have a better time of it. The ill fated Modding Staff might have been able to do a bit of this + more on the structural end, but for lack of that there are still opportunities. Sieze them and do far more for modders than basically blank awards ever will. There is a fair handful available already along with other curial awards that simply aren't being used much. So why not do so and put the rest of the time into something helpful. I know, ironic coming from me.
    Last edited by Emperor Commodus; May 29, 2021 at 05:36 PM.
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  10. #10
    Akar's Avatar I am not a clever man
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    Default Re: Abolition of 501 Modding Award

    Artifex is not an award .....
    According to the constitution it is.
    I believe the confusion here is that when Leonardo says "Award" he literally means one of the awards under your rep while Iskar is saying that Artifex is an award in the sense that it is awarded by the Curia. Though it is "awarded" it's considered a badge not an award.

    Or maybe I'm just speaking out my ass, who knows.

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  11. #11
    Iskar's Avatar Insanity with Dignity
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    Default Re: Abolition of 501 Modding Award

    An award is an abstract token of recognition bestowed either by the Curia or Hex. Awards can come with postbit icons (the small stuff below the rep) or with badges (like citizenship and some of the large awards). There are other reasons why people may have a badge (staff role, usually). Award/Rank/Office (role in community) is a different category than Icon/Badge (insignia of roles). Citizenship (including Artifex) is not a badge, it is an award that comes with a badge (in as much as you wouldn't say that a Knighthood of the Garter is a robe and a fancy metal chain, either.)

    As for the actual topic...
    I'd do the Sodom-and-Gomorrah-routine: If you can find but five deserving candidates, the award shall be saved.
    Last edited by Iskar; May 29, 2021 at 06:24 PM.
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  12. #12
    Emperor Commodus's Avatar citizen, allegedly
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    Default Re: Abolition of 501 Modding Award

    You can recursively award everyone who's made a sufficient tweak to the games, and collecting it would be a trivial measure. Given the descriptions you could outright give them all gold, in fact...
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  13. #13
    Gigantus's Avatar I don't get worked up over people anymore: they get a post-it with 'ridiculous' on their forehead and that's it.
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    Default Re: Abolition of 501 Modding Award

    ...from the gist I got from Ged in a previous discussion, medals are a form of group and check upon page loading and in the database. If I was mistaken on this, Hex will surely correct me.
    It's the number of user groups that causes issues - and awards are not user groups.


    The problem with recognition for modders was and is, that citizens would have to propose modders for the award.
    The 501 Award is only given to two people so long.
    So the award has missed its purpose.
    All the curia awards require citizens to make proposals, the Opifex is the other modding specific one. Just because no one could be bothered to propose someone for an award is hardly a reason to abolish it. Surely there are more worthy members then just Morticia and myself to receive these awards? Like mak and wilddog for their continuous development of the IWTE tool? Heck, I might have to crank out a number of proposals myself if that's what it takes.
    Last edited by Gigantus; May 29, 2021 at 08:50 PM.




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    Default Re: Abolition of 501 Modding Award

    Heck, I might have to crank out a number of proposals myself if that's what it takes.
    I would welcome that.

    As is it's always people who haven't proposed anyone for an award in forever that decry the abolition of these awards.

    If you think they still have a place, put your awards where your mouth is and nominate people.

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  15. #15
    Leonardo's Avatar Reborn Old Timer
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    Default Re: Abolition of 501 Modding Award

    Quote Originally Posted by Gigantus View Post
    All the curia awards require citizens to make proposals, the Opifex is the other modding specific one.
    So, a non-citizen cannot propose a modder for the Opifex by posting the nomination in the Prothalamos, even if a citizen(s) support such nomination.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gigantus View Post
    Just because no one could be bothered to propose someone for an award is hardly a reason to abolish it. Surely there are more worthy members then just Morticia and myself to receive these awards? Like mak and wilddog for their continuous development of the IWTE tool? Heck, I might have to crank out a number of proposals myself if that's what it takes.
    That's exactly my point of why I am against abolish this modding award.
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  16. #16
    Emperor Commodus's Avatar citizen, allegedly
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    Default Re: Abolition of 501 Modding Award

    If people are really interested in going back to the door of fixing it, by all means consider descriptions that fit level 2 and 3 and it will be an answer on its own.
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  17. #17
    Vladyvid's Avatar Wizard of Turmish
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    Default Re: Abolition of 501 Modding Award

    I doubt that abolition of this award will somehow visibly improve the performance of the site, and i would bet it is rather insignificant in its impact. If awards are somehow decreasing the sites performance, then i would suggest first removing something that will make a bigger impact - like an award that many people have. I mean this, if your motivation in removing this 501st award is to do some performance upgrade. Otherwise i think there is no good reason to abolish that award, and i would say even especially so if its an award that nobody will ever get.

    In a vote i would abstain, i just give my opinion.






  18. #18
    Leonardo's Avatar Reborn Old Timer
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    Default Re: Abolition of 501 Modding Award

    Quote Originally Posted by Vladyvid View Post
    I doubt that abolition of this award will somehow visibly improve the performance of the site, and i would bet it is rather insignificant in its impact. If awards are somehow decreasing the sites performance, then i would suggest first removing something that will make a bigger impact - like an award that many people have. I mean this, if your motivation in removing this 501st award is to do some performance upgrade. Otherwise i think there is no good reason to abolish that award, and i would say even especially so if its an award that nobody will ever get.
    Agreed. How about removing the Citizen group?

    Why do we need a Citizen group when citizens already have the Civitate badge and having two citizen badges instead of three make sense, I mean both has the latin name and one is for citizens (Civitate) with other contributions than modding (Artifex).

    I'm pretty sure that removing the Citizen group (rank color) would make a difference on the server and the performance of the site.
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  19. #19
    Akar's Avatar I am not a clever man
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    Default Re: Abolition of 501 Modding Award

    First of all, removing the Citizen rank wouldn't really do as much as you think, since most people aren't part of more than 1 of the 3 groups. The only people who should be part of all 3 Citizen groups are the Consul and his merry Censors. I don't want to misrepresent the situation, but I believe that it's not as much the amount of groups total so much as the amount of groups that individual users (and therefor the average user) is a part of.

    Secondly, this thread is not the place to discuss ways to reduce server load unless it pertains to the specifics of this particular amendment.

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  20. #20
    Emperor Commodus's Avatar citizen, allegedly
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    Default Re: Abolition of 501 Modding Award

    28th day and all I see is tumbleweed. Time to archive I guess.
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