Pro-Belgian Soldier on the run from Law enforcement in Belgium

[Nebaki]

But thousands of victims of the SS are still alive today, and the damage they did to Europe will be felt by generations to come. Think about that, especially remembering that there are people like this guy who want all that to come back.

Maybe and maybe not but these are Victims of World War 2 too and this a different Story while the SS does not exists anymore. Even a new foundation like SS-Organisation or some different Groups which are following their principles doesn´t makes them the SS since their thinking and Ideology was on a different Timeframe and influence.

Don't move the goalposts: he is the subject of this thread, which means we are going to talk about him ...

On this Forum such a thing is not possible since there are other Various Threads where we got enough "Users" which are not following that formality and even spamming any other kind of BS - don´t know why such a behaviour is still being tolerated.

I am of the position that no sane person could ever be a supporter of Nazism, not after 1945, not after it was revealed for all to see what damage they had done to collective humanity.

Well your Post-History speaks for yourself while Nazism is more related to political organisation in Germany on the past time. It was more the German Main-Ideology or most often refered to the political Movement of Fascism.

[irontaino]

Really jumping through hoops to defend neo-Nazis, eh?

[swabian]

Oh, haha, wow. WTF. Yeah, err... He might have been a competent soldier, but this obviously very messed up. It looks like this guy is already running amok and needs to be stopped before he uses those weapons he stole.

And yes, the SS was the vanguard of the 3rd Reich's genocidal policy. It's also debatable whether they have been elite units at all. Imo they were more like paramilitaries who only partially achieved elite status in the Waffen-SS only (!) at the later stage of ww2.

[EmperorBatman999]

Maybe and maybe not but these are Victims of World War 2 too and this a different Story while the SS does not exists anymore. Even a new foundation like SS-Organisation or some different Groups which are following their principles doesn´t makes them the SS since their thinking and Ideology was on a different Timeframe and influence.

Off-loading victimhood onto World War II is Holocaust denial. The Holocaust was carried out largely by the SS; the Einsatzgruppen sent into Poland, the Baltics, Belarus, and Russia were of the SS. The SS intelligence branch, the SD, designed the Final Solution (the plan to kill every last Jew in Europe) under the guidance of Reinhard Heydrich (see the Wannsee Conference), and SS guards oversaw the camps where over millions of people were enslaved or killed on the basis of ethnic and political background. Dachau, Mauthausen, Auschwitz, they all stand as reminders of what the SS did for their Nazi masters. There will sadly never be a time for the rest of history when the SS is no longer relevant. If you celebrate the SS, you celebrate their rotten, disgusting, despicable principles. And anyone who celebrates those principles, whether they were SS back then or part some neo-Nazi organization today, is an evil, despicable, rotten, insane person that needs serious psychological help.

The Nazis were killing and imprisoning people well before 1939, the war merely made new targets available for the Nazis between Moscow and Marseille. Dachau was built well before the war in 1933!

On this Forum such a thing is not possible since there are other Various Threads where we got enough "Users" which are not following that formality and even spamming any other kind of BS - don´t know why such a behaviour is still being tolerated.

I have no idea what you're talking about. Moving the goalposts is frequently called out on this forum.

Well your Post-History speaks for yourself while Nazism is more related to political organisation in Germany on the past time. It was more the German Main-Ideology or most often refered to the political Movement of Fascism.

You cannot write off Nazism as an anodyne "political organization." It had very real consequences for millions of people, consequences which persist to the present day.

As Nazism was the dominant branch of fascism, Nazi Germany was able to compel other fascist groups to act in line with Nazi race ideology. When Germany told Mussolini he had to persecute the Jews of Italy, he complied. When the Nazis conquered a new territory, whether it was Austria, France, Lithuania, Ukraine, Slovakia, Croatia, or Belgium, they inspired the collaborators to embrace the Nazi brand of fascism and persecute their local Jews as a demonstration of loyalty to Germany.

[swabian]

The poster above expresses very important things to never forget. The National Socialist ideology is nothing less than a political tool to commit mass murder. There was nothing legitimate about it. This movement seized power in a defeated country which was not prepared for what was coming. Nowadays we know better.

[Muizer]

What's pro-Belgian about that guy? What does that even mean?

Probably means 'nationalist', which is a descriptor of people whose actions are inspired by perceived (past) greatness of their country, which, if they took the time to do some study, they would find were invariably the achievements of forward looking destroyers of tradition.

[Cyclops]

Probably means 'nationalist', which is a descriptor of people whose actions are inspired by perceived (past) greatness of their country, which, if they took the time to do some study, they would find were invariably the achievements of forward looking destroyers of tradition.

Maybe he's in favour of torture in the Congo? The Nazis had a brainlet, highly emotional view of history and their simps seem to as well.

[Gromovnik]

So, any news about this "pro-Belgian soldier"?

[swabian]

Probably means 'nationalist', which is a descriptor of people whose actions are inspired by perceived (past) greatness of their country, which, if they took the time to do some study, they would find were invariably the achievements of forward looking destroyers of tradition.

Ugh, whatever that is supposed to express. The Nazis were great destroyers of tradition by the way, and very, very forward looking, oh yes.

[EmperorBatman999]

Ugh, whatever that is supposed to express. The Nazis were great destroyers of tradition by the way, and very, very forward looking, oh yes.

It reminds of the remarks made by Thomas Weyr in his book about Nazi-era Vienna, The Setting of the Pearl. He was from a Jewish family and had to flee the country with his parents as a young boy following the Anschluss. Unlike many of the Austrian-Jewish exiles, his family returned immediately after the war (most remained in the US, UK, or went to Israel, in fact, the Austrian government made it difficult to regain citizenship and property until very recently. Only five months ago, Austria instituted a citizenship program for Jewish victims of the Holocaust and their descendants).

Young Weyr noticed that Vienna's culture had almost entirely changed even after only 7 years of Nazi rule, and much of that was thanks to the expulsion of the Jews by Baldur von Schirach and Adolf Eichmann (Schirach, for his part, proudly said that forcing the Jews out of Vienna was his personal contribution to European culture). Weyr remarked in his book that the Austrians had somehow become more Prussian in temperament, and that the Viennese accent had lost its Medieval High German tinge. The city had also lost its finest musicians and actors, damaging the city's famed culture of fine arts, and that Vienna had not been able to produce another great creative production for decades after the war.

In fact, many of these changes were actually prophesized over a decade before the Nazi takeover: a 1924 Austrian film, Die Stadt ohne Juden ("The City Without Jews"), it predicted the immense cultural and economic damage which would happen if a fictionalized Vienna evicted its Jewish citizens. As an old film, some of it is rather hamfisted: cafes become beer gardens, and the only new clothing that is made is stereotypically German loden cloaks and lederhosen. And these were the worlds which the Nazis envisioned and brought to life...

[Morticia Iunia Bruti]

Although i'm a extreme leftwing person and not very patriotic, i felt urged to comment some things as German:

As an old film, some of it is rather hamfisted: cafes become beer gardens, and the only new clothing that is made is stereotypically German loden cloaks and lederhosen.

Lodenjacke and Lederhosen is typical bavarian and austrian, not german! It got popular in Germany till the 50s with the Nazis. Also Biergarten is typical bavarian like the Oktoberfest, which came popular the last 20-30 years.

Although i'm sorry for the fate of Mr. Weyr and his family, it isn't true, that Hitlers antisemitism is specific german. In reality it is a specific antisemtism of his time in Vienna.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

It was in Vienna that Hitler first became exposed to racist rhetoric.^[47] Populists such as mayor Karl Lueger exploited the climate of virulent anti-Semitism and occasionally espoused German nationalist notions for political effect. German nationalism had a particularly widespread following in the Mariahilf district, where Hitler lived.^[48] Georg Ritter von Schönerer became a major influence on Hitler.^[49] He also developed an admiration for Martin Luther.^[50] Hitler read local newspapers such as Deutsches Volksblatt [de] that fanned prejudice and played on Christian fears of being swamped by an influx of Eastern European Jews.^[51] He read newspapers and pamphlets that published the thoughts of philosophers and theoreticians such as Houston Stewart Chamberlain, Charles Darwin, Friedrich Nietzsche, Gustave Le Bon and Arthur Schopenhauer.^[52]
The origin and development of Hitler's anti-Semitism remains a matter of debate.^[53] His friend, August Kubizek, claimed that Hitler was a "confirmed anti-Semite" before he left Linz.^[54] However, historian Brigitte Hamann describes Kubizek's claim as "problematical".^[55] While Hitler states in Mein Kampf that he first became an anti-Semite in Vienna,^[56] Reinhold Hanisch, who helped him sell his paintings, disagrees. Hitler had dealings with Jews while living in Vienna.^[57][58][59] Historian Richard J. Evans states that "historians now generally agree that his notorious, murderous anti-Semitism emerged well after Germany's defeat [in World War I], as a product of the paranoid "stab-in-the-back" explanation for the catastrophe".^[60]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_...nna_and_Munich

Antisemtism wasn't something what was brought to Austria 1938. It was already there deep anchored in society. Don't forget that Austrians were absolutely overrepresented in comparison to their part of the total population in the German empire in the ranks of the SS.

Mr. Weyr is colporting the austrian after-war-myth , that Austria was the first victim of Hitler.

[swabian]

It reminds of the remarks made by Thomas Weyr in his book about Nazi-era Vienna, The Setting of the Pearl. He was from a Jewish family and had to flee the country with his parents as a young boy following the Anschluss. Unlike many of the Austrian-Jewish exiles, his family returned immediately after the war (most remained in the US, UK, or went to Israel, in fact, the Austrian government made it difficult to regain citizenship and property until very recently. Only five months ago, Austria instituted a citizenship program for Jewish victims of the Holocaust and their descendants).

Young Weyr noticed that Vienna's culture had almost entirely changed even after only 7 years of Nazi rule, and much of that was thanks to the expulsion of the Jews by Baldur von Schirach and Adolf Eichmann (Schirach, for his part, proudly said that forcing the Jews out of Vienna was his personal contribution to European culture). Weyr remarked in his book that the Austrians had somehow become more Prussian in temperament, and that the Viennese accent had lost its Medieval High German tinge. The city had also lost its finest musicians and actors, damaging the city's famed culture of fine arts, and that Vienna had not been able to produce another great creative production for decades after the war.

In fact, many of these changes were actually prophesized over a decade before the Nazi takeover: a 1924 Austrian film, Die Stadt ohne Juden ("The City Without Jews"), it predicted the immense cultural and economic damage which would happen if a fictionalized Vienna evicted its Jewish citizens. As an old film, some of it is rather hamfisted: cafes become beer gardens, and the only new clothing that is made is stereotypically German loden cloaks and lederhosen. And these were the worlds which the Nazis envisioned and brought to life...

The National Socialists looked down on dialects and localized culture and of course were murderously intolerant towards anything non-Germanic. Hitler saw the Swabians as some Celtic admixture of doubtful racial worth for example. What the NS envisioned was much more something like the Roman Empire with a uniform culture and an artificially nordicized race by means of genocide and selective colonization. This form of Germany never existed in reality, only in the pubertal power fantasies of the NS edgelords. They wanted to create a completely new reality and they had little to no sentimentalism for even German cultural quirks and details and no respect for the actual history of Germanic culture.

[Cyclops]

Its a shame, irrational emotional romantic mystical German nationalism (including its Austrian manifestations) gave us lovely things (even in English eg William Morriss and JRR Tolkien), but it also gave us truly toxic racism and intolerance. Germany remains a wonderful nexus of culture and civilisation despite some hideous moments in its past.

Fancy choosing to idolise something from outside your own culture (and Belgium also has a wondrous heritage, above all as the heartland of old Francia and Charlemagne's demense), picking Germany (OK not a terrible choice, a lot to like there) then choosing to simp for the degenerate brainlet Nazi losers. FFS Clovis would step from his grave and slap this for this sort of idiocy.

[EmperorBatman999]

Although i'm a extreme leftwing person and not very patriotic, i felt urged to comment some things as German:



Lodenjacke and Lederhosen is typical bavarian and austrian, not german! It got popular in Germany till the 50s with the Nazis. Also Biergarten is typical bavarian like the Oktoberfest, which came popular the last 20-30 years.

Although i'm sorry for the fate of Mr. Weyr and his family, it isn't true, that Hitlers antisemitism is specific german. In reality it is a specific antisemtism of his time in Vienna.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

It was in Vienna that Hitler first became exposed to racist rhetoric.^[47] Populists such as mayor Karl Lueger exploited the climate of virulent anti-Semitism and occasionally espoused German nationalist notions for political effect. German nationalism had a particularly widespread following in the Mariahilf district, where Hitler lived.^[48] Georg Ritter von Schönerer became a major influence on Hitler.^[49] He also developed an admiration for Martin Luther.^[50] Hitler read local newspapers such as Deutsches Volksblatt [de] that fanned prejudice and played on Christian fears of being swamped by an influx of Eastern European Jews.^[51] He read newspapers and pamphlets that published the thoughts of philosophers and theoreticians such as Houston Stewart Chamberlain, Charles Darwin, Friedrich Nietzsche, Gustave Le Bon and Arthur Schopenhauer.^[52]
The origin and development of Hitler's anti-Semitism remains a matter of debate.^[53] His friend, August Kubizek, claimed that Hitler was a "confirmed anti-Semite" before he left Linz.^[54] However, historian Brigitte Hamann describes Kubizek's claim as "problematical".^[55] While Hitler states in Mein Kampf that he first became an anti-Semite in Vienna,^[56] Reinhold Hanisch, who helped him sell his paintings, disagrees. Hitler had dealings with Jews while living in Vienna.^[57][58][59] Historian Richard J. Evans states that "historians now generally agree that his notorious, murderous anti-Semitism emerged well after Germany's defeat [in World War I], as a product of the paranoid "stab-in-the-back" explanation for the catastrophe".^[60]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_...nna_and_Munich

Antisemtism wasn't something what was brought to Austria 1938. It was already there deep anchored in society. Don't forget that Austrians were absolutely overrepresented in comparison to their part of the total population in the German empire in the ranks of the SS.

Mr. Weyr is colporting the austrian after-war-myth , that Austria was the first victim of Hitler.

Oh yes, I understand these cultural attributes well. I was briefly a resident of Salzburg and Vienna during my academic studies, so I am very familiar with the culture there, as well as some of the problems with the country's historicization of the NS-period. What I was trying to convey with the film is that the cosmopolitan idea of Habsburg Vienna had gotten replaced with a rather drab, monocultural (and perhaps in the view of the film's creators, hokey) persona more reminiscent of the rural western regions of the country that are closer geographically and culturally to Bavaria. There is definitely a tone of Viennese elitism in there which was commonplace for the time, and perhaps even some nostalgia for when the city was the cultural crossroads towards the Balkans.

Indeed, antisemitism was an Austrian import to the German Nazis, established by figures such as Karl Lueger. I had actually referenced him on multiple occasions in a thread concerning the Armenian Genocide. Of course, the "First Victim" theory has constantly tried to disown Austria's own part in inspiring Nazi anti-Semitism. I'm sure Mr. Weyr is also trying to play into the invention of Austrian "nationhood" by trying to kick up the old Austrian-Prussian rivalry that started with Frederick the Great's conquest of Silesia. That still persists to a degree: I remember speaking with a few Austrians who still referred to the Germans half-ironically as Saupreissn, but I suspect they might have been putting on something of an act for me.

[Gromovnik]

They were putting an act for you. The nazis were more popular in Austria than in Germany.

[Morticia Iunia Bruti]

The Bavarian are also calling every German north of Main "Saupreissn".^^

Another austrian negative word for Germans is "Piefkes". Although that's so a specific word from an austrian dialect, that i don't understand its meaning.^^

[Nebaki]

Off-loading victimhood onto World War II is Holocaust denial.....

Ah please what are you trying to imply to my person?

I have no idea what you're talking about. Moving the goalposts is frequently called out on this forum.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

You cannot write off Nazism as an anodyne "political organization." It had very real consequences for millions of people, consequences which persist to the present day.

As Nazism was the dominant branch of fascism, Nazi Germany was able to compel other fascist groups to act in line with Nazi race ideology. When Germany told Mussolini he had to persecute the Jews of Italy, he complied. When the Nazis conquered a new territory, whether it was Austria, France, Lithuania, Ukraine, Slovakia, Croatia, or Belgium, they inspired the collaborators to embrace the Nazi brand of fascism and persecute their local Jews as a demonstration of loyalty to Germany.

People in Europe killed and massacred the Jews in Europe long before then even the Nazis started to exist. You have special Issue with "Nazism" since it is not acceptable to describe them as a political organization while there are plenty of examples how other political organization based on Communism or even Democratic doing acts against ethics and morals of humanity so like the Nazism which maybe the best example of Fascism in Europe. Even with that you have showed your own narrowness.

[EmperorBatman999]

The Bavarian are also calling every German north of Main "Saupreissn".^^

Another austrian negative word for Germans is "Piefkes". Although that's so a specific word from an austrian dialect, that i don't understand its meaning.^^

I think the insult Piefke has to do with the Prussian composer Johann Gottfried Piefke, who wrote the famous Königgrätzer Marsch commemorating the Prussian victory over Austria in the Six Weeks War. As his music was generally about gloating over Prussian victories, he quickly came to symbolize attitudes about the Prussians.

Ah please what are you trying to imply to my person?

Nothing which you haven’t already confessed for yourself.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Can you please point me to a direct instance when I moved the goalposts in this thread? I am simply pointing out that your justifications for glorifying this rogue soldier are morally wrong, and that labelling him pro-Belgian is biased and highly misleading.

People in Europe killed and massacred the Jews in Europe long before then even the Nazis started to exist. You have special Issue with "Nazism" since it is not acceptable to describe them as a political organization while there are plenty of examples how other political organization based on Communism or even Democratic doing acts against ethics and morals of humanity so like the Nazism which maybe the best example of Fascism in Europe. Even with that you have showed your own narrowness.

This is a mere distraction to minimize, or even to justify, what the Nazis had done. What made the Nazi acts of anti-Semitism particularly noteworthy is as follows:
1. Magnitude: The Nazis killed more than 6 million Jews, and likely 4 to 5 million other people. No act of ethnic purging against the Jews of Europe had came even close to this magnitude prior to the Holocaust. They aimed to kill every last Jew in Europe, but God be thanked, the Allies stopped them before they could achieve that goal.

2. Rationale: The Nazis, in their quest to kill every single Jew living in Europe, sought to specifically find the most scientifically efficient method to kill them. They literally sat down at the Wannsee Conference and discussed the finer points of whether to kill them by shooting, or to gas them. They had tabulated statistics on the Jewish populations of Europe and calculated precisely how to move them, how much coal it would take to move the trains, how much rolling stock was needed, everything. It was also at Wannsee when they determined that they had to kill exterminate the entire Jewish race. Previous anti-Jewish pogroms, meanwhile, never had this scale of deliberate planning, and most attacks on Jewish communities were acts of haphazard passion, rather than a concerted effort to wipe out an entire group of people from the continent, if not the planet.

I would strongly suggest you read the minutes from the Wannsee Conference, or even at least watch the HBO movie, Conspiracy.

[Morticia Iunia Bruti]

I think the insult Piefke has to do with the Prussian composer Johann Gottfried Piefke, who wrote the famous Königgrätzer Marsch commemorating the Prussian victory over Austria in the Six Weeks War. As his music was generally about gloating over Prussian victories, he quickly came to symbolize attitudes about the Prussians.

Thanks. I didn't know that, but i'm not really an ufftata ufftata enthusiast.^^

[Gromovnik]

Imagine the butthurt if he composed a march about the battle of Karansebes.