According to Biden's comments in his announcement that seems to be what probably happened.
His speech starts at around 45 seconds
Of course Biden may be speaking out of both sides of his mouth since at the same time representatives of his admin are currently involved in talks with Iran ostensibly to reinstate the terrible nuclear deal plus lift economic sanctions which in turn will potentially allow them to finance more missiles for Hamas.
Cheers
P.S.
I'm not quite sure how this relates to Biden's promise but it appears that the GOP brought forth a vote earlier today on an emergency proposal for the US to help fund the restocking of the iron dome system which was defeated by the Democrats.
https://freebeacon.com/national-secu...-security-aid/
The article goes on to reference a lack of support for Israel from the progressive side of the Democratic party led by other Dem reps such as Bernie Sanders and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez.House Democrats on Thursday voted against a measure to provide Israel with emergency funding for its Iron Dome missile defense system, which destroys terrorist rockets before they land, saving scores of lives as Israel continues to fight against Palestinian terror groups.
In a vote of 218-209, Democrats rejected a security funding amendment offered by Rep. Tony Gonzales (R., Texas). The measure would have paved the way for Israel to receive a tranche of emergency dollars specifically for missile defense, which has proven critical as Iranian-backed terror groups Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad target Israeli citizens. One Republican, Rep. Thomas Massie (Ky.), voted with Democrats against the measure.
"We need to show [Israel] we believe in their right to defend themselves, and the United States will do everything in our power to ensure they defeat these terrorist and any attacks by Iran," Gonzales said on the House floor ahead of the vote. "Will my Democrat colleagues choose to stand with Israel or will they cower to the Iranian proxies?"
The Democrat-controlled House's rejection of the security amendment came just days after a Republican bid to sanction Hamas was shut down. On Tuesday, Democrats rejected a bid by House Republicans to hold a vote on Hamas sanctions legislation that would have cut off the group’s funding sources.
"Democrats blocked aid for Israel—our strongest ally in the Middle East," Republican minority leader Kevin McCarthy (R., Calif.) said after the vote. "This is aid that could help de-escalate the attacks and save thousands of Israeli and Palestinian lives. And they blocked it."
Both votes were championed by Republicans seeking to bolster the Jewish state in its time of war. Democrats, however, have been divided on the issue. While the party's leadership has expressed support for Israel's right to defend itself, far-left, anti-Israel voices such as Reps. Ilhan Omar (D., Minn.) and Rashida Tlaib (D., Mich.) are pressuring their colleagues to cut U.S. aid and even sanction Israel for what they claim are war crimes in the Gaza Strip.
This may all be political theater by both sides but it's still not a very good look for how one side of the aisle seems to want to treat our strongest ally in the region.
Last edited by Forward Observer; May 20, 2021 at 11:13 PM. Reason: edit for better video, add Post Script
Artillery brings dignity to what would otherwise be a vulgar brawl!
Its bizarre, and horrible, how domestic "points of difference" and playing to the base leads the US into staggering foreign policy debacles. That idiot Kennedy lied about a US missile gap to win an election and had to wag the dog in Turkey which turned into Cuba, then invented a war in Vietnam as a distraction for the mess he made. No wonder his own party shot him, but he's not Robinson Crusoe. Very few Presidents enjoy the expertise and freedom to exercise good judgement, especially in the Near East.
I have hope though. Clinton was able to strong arm the warring parties in the Good Friday agreements and that, beyond all expectations, has held. Maybe we'll get lucky like we did with Kuchner and a sensible "straight man" from the US lends weight to progressing peace. Having a dribbling idiot back home can actually be an asset if its leveraged well, look how Kuchner used Trump to scare a swag of Arab States into normalising with Israel. "He's recognised Jerusalem as the captial? HE'S GOING TO RECOGNISE THE SETTLEMENTS?" "Sheesh guys sorry, as long as you don't sign the agreement he keeps looking over here and I can't stop him, y'know".
Jatte lambastes Calico Rat
The narrative is that the Jews engineered the rise of Islamic extremism in order to have a justification to conquer the Middle East, with some going as far as believing that ISIS was an Israeli creation. More plausible is that the Israelis thought the apparently peaceful Islamists in Gaza might serve as a counterbalance to the Arab Nationalists who were constantly killing Israeli civilians. Israelis in important leadership positions failed to grasp the implications of the ideology and the long term orientation and goals of the Islamists, not that they could have done much to stop the rising tide even if they had. Nevertheless, this contrast between the long term orientation of the militant Islamists and the short term orientation of most of the Israeli leadership is a major disadvantage on the Israelis' part in my opinion. It's an issue that permeates all aspects of Israeli society.
I'll give an example. As most here know, I work on archaeological digs in Israel. We work under a shade net. The Israelis I work with sloppily throw up the shade net in a few minutes at the start of an excavation. The result is that every few days the shade net collapses on us, and has to be put back up. It wouldn't be that hard to put up a shade net that stays up for the duration of the excavation, but the Israelis consider that a waste of time, because a collapsed shade net can just be thrown up again in a few minutes. This is despite the fact that half the time when it falls, it results in at least one minor injury. This seems to me, to be the same attitude as those in the Israeli military leadership, who are now saying that the operation that just came to a close in Gaza, can be considered a success if it prevents a similar conflict for five years.
When Hamas took control of Gaza and started firing rockets, it was the beginning of the end of the Israeli left, whose approach to the conflict had already been seriously discredited by the Second Intifada. Yes, the Israeli right did take the opportunity to point to it and say look, this is the risk of a Palestinian state right on top of us, but it wasn't the culmination of a Jewish conspiracy dating back to the 1970s.
A note for the sake of clarity. The terms right and left in Israeli politics tend to be connected primarily to approaches to the conflict. On social and economic policies, Israelis aren't particularly right wing depending on how you measure that. For example, Likud is center right, but they are tolerant of economic polices that are left of the mainstream Democrats in the US. The Haredi parties are extremely conservative socially, but basically socialist on economic policy. Whereas many on the mainstream right are fairly liberal on social issues, in the tolerance sense anyway, not promotion.
They certainly trust each other to start a ceasefire now. They've done it repeatedly. In the past exchanging captured fighters as well. So its not a matter of trust. If we are to consider the topic of Hamas not recognizing Israel despite dealing with it on many different occasions we'd need to start with Israel recognizing Palestine. Israel passes as a modern democratic state. Hamas is a militant group. Palestine, first under Arafat, recognized Israel since 1993:
Israel, on the other hand, only recognized PLO as the representative of Palestinians which was not a recognition of Palestine itself. That mind game alone is enough to show Israel's intentions to keep territory boundaries fluid. What was Israel's response later on in the coming decades? Keep on colonizing East Jerusalem and West Bank.The PLO recognizes the right of the State of Israel to exist in peace and security.The PLO accepts United Nations Security Council Resolutions 242 and 338.
The PLO commits itself to the Middle East peace process, and to a peaceful resolution of the conflict between the two sides and declares that all outstanding issues relating to permanent status will be resolved through negotiations.
The Armenian Issuehttp://www.twcenter.net/forums/group.php?groupid=1930
GTA 6 Thread
https://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?819300-GTA-6-Reveal-Trailer
"We're nice mainly because we're rich and comfortable."
Not the craziest conspiracy theory I heard ("Rabbis warning their coreligionists to stay home on 9/11" took the cake) but plenty crazy enough.
TBF we in the US alliance saw Islamists as useful catspaws in Afghanistan in the 1980's, Baathists as allies vs Iran, and Wahhabists as a counterbalance to "legitimate" Hashemite claims on Mecca, so they are not alone there.
Re the shade net, that was a typical Australian attitude "near enough is good enough". Now we have gone the other way and everything has a ****ing procedure (including a procedure for checking the procedure, I kid you not) and its a nanny state.
Yes progress has been at a snails pace but the parties can meet. Hamas does obstruct this though, don't they?
Its hairsplitting to say Israel permits rather than instigates the settlers, but worth saying. It does put immense pressure on the PA so they are more like a useful tool than a rogue element for Israel.
I have to agree it seems clear the point about Israel recognising the PA as the representatives but nonrecognition of Palestine as such is obviously about borders: its the same reason Hamas demands no territory for Israel. I guess in the past Israel struggle to get recognition so resisted giving it?
Israel has grabbed land where it could and never surrendered an inch without a fight, and we do know why. Israel like Palestine has been in a knife fight for its very existence for many decades. Both sides use filthy tactics at times and your point that they need to come together is valid. I honestly think interference from outside players with their own agendas has prevented this. Occasionally the US and in the past maybe the USSR, perhaps Egypt , have intervened in these affairs for reasons approaching altruism. Mostly they muck around for their own purposes and Israelis and Palestinians die for the benefit of others.
Jatte lambastes Calico Rat
Here is a nice cross-section of how the ceasefire is being perceived in Israel:
In other words, not very well. While a lot of these politicians are in the opposition, some are Netanyahu allies.After Israel agreed to a ceasefire with the Hamas terror group, ending 11 days of fighting in the Gaza Strip, politicians and local officials criticized the government over the move just hours after it went into effect on Friday morning.
Yesh Atid leader Yair Lapid, currently tasked with forming a government, albeit with apparently reduced chances after the fighting in Gaza stalled negotiations, tweeted that “the military succeeded in the tasks it was given, [but] the government failed.”
“Israeli citizens, especially the citizens of the [Gaza] border area, suffered heavy fire, and in return received no achievement or change of reality,” Lapid said.
“[Prime Minister Benjamin] Netanyahu’s failures extend from Meron to Gaza, from the Temple Mount to Lod. It’s time to go,” he added, referring to the Mount Meron disaster that killed 45, and the recent unrest in mixed Jewish-Arab cities.
New Hope party leader Gideon Sa’ar called the ceasefire “embarrassing,” and lamented that even “with the best intelligence and air force in the world, Netanyahu managed to get from Hamas a ‘ceasefire with no conditions.’”
While Hamas claimed the “mutual and simultaneous” ceasefire included Israeli concessions in Jerusalem regarding the Temple Mount and the pending evictions of Palestinian families from the East Jerusalem neighborhood of Sheikh Jarrah, unnamed Israeli officials involved in the negotiations told Army Radio the truce has no conditions.
Bezalel Smotrich, head of the far-right Religious Zionism party, said that if the truce is indeed without conditions, the Temple Mount flashpoint holy site should be reopened immediately to Jews.
Jews have been severely limited from entering the Temple Mount grounds as violent clashes between Palestinians and Israeli police took place at the holy site during the past month.
“Anything else would sadly prove that Hamas was telling the truth and the diplomatic sources lied,” Smotrich said.
Yisrael Beytenu party head Avigdor Liberman referred to the near-monthly Qatari cash flow to Gaza in his response.
“Ceasefire? What about ceasing the cash?” Liberman tweeted.
With Israel’s approval, Qatar since 2018 has periodically provided millions of dollars in cash to Gaza’s Hamas rulers to pay for fuel for the Strip’s power plant, allow the group to pay its civil servants, and provide aid to tens of thousands of impoverished families.
Labor party leader Merav Michaeli also condemned the transfer of funds to the terror group and claimed that the prime minister used the conflict for his own benefit.
“So what was the goal of the operation? Ceasefire? Achieving quiet? And what will be done during this silence? Will Netanyahu transfer money again so that Hamas will have even more missiles to launch at us in the next round?” Michaeli tweeted. “It is time to stop denying: once again the IDF acted professionally, the public showed resilience, and Netanyahu used all of this to strengthen Hamas and to strengthen himself.”
Tamar Zandberg of the left-wing Meretz party welcomed the ceasefire but said the government must stop strengthening Hamas at the expense of the Palestinian Authority, and that there cannot be a military solution to the conflict.
“It’s good that the firing has stopped but it’s a shame it was not avoided before it started,” Zandberg tweeted. “The only question is how to prevent the next round and the answer is discussions about peace. There is no military solution to this conflict. The government’s policy of strengthening Hamas and turning its back on the Palestinian Authority has the aim of preventing a political settlement, which is the only way to a life of peace and security.”
Extreme-right Religious Zionism MK Itamar Ben Gvir said “the embarrassing ceasefire is a grave capitulation to terror and to Hamas’s impositions. This is a difficult night for the State of Israel and Israeli deterrence.”
Joining the Knesset members, the mayor of rocket-stricken Sderot Alon Davidi said he doesn’t understand why the country agreed to the ceasefire as there has been no real change to the situation.
“The prime minister and the government had our backing, there were achievements but this is not something that changes the balance of power. It seems like nobody wants to defeat Hamas,” he said in an interview with Radio 103FM.
Notice how sumskilz tries to shift the focus and blow it out of proportion to create a World vs. Jews accusation narrative while instead I was referring to a particular episode with Israeli authorities themselves attesting to the existence of it. That kind of snarky false narrative telling pollutes the well quite effectively I must admit.
I'm not sure how Hamas does that in particular. Best way to neuter Hamas is to stop giving it international recognized reasons. Israel is the modern democratic nation with admission to the international stage. It has the responsibility to act with the bare minimum which would be not to keep colonizing Palestinian lands.
If the settler problem was a static one it might have made sense to see it as a bargaining chip. It's not. It's an ever growing encroachment. It's not a symptom. It's a primary problem that continues to grow. It's not like settlements happened organically either. They're created under government supervision with the government allocating more funds for them. The Israeli government has the obligation to stop them from being built and settled, instead they arm and train its residents. Meanwhile, Israeli Arabs can't even go back to their own village in Israel.
We no longer live in the 20th century. Israel no longer faces an existential threat against Arab nations. I would go as far to say that the possibility of war between Israel and others is not much different than that of between many Arab nations or more broadly Middle Eastern nations. When PLO recognized Israel it didn't have to word out an area. The state was recognized. Borders were up to negotiations. Israel can do the same. Instead, they refrain from it to stop Palestine from getting any international recognition. So, it has nothing to do with borders. The endgame is clear that Israel doesn't want a Palestinian state, period. Historically, Israel didn't really struggle that much to get recognition. Vast majority of the world had no problem recognizing Israel. It's two most important neighbors, Jordan and Egypt already recognized Israel decades ago.
The Armenian Issuehttp://www.twcenter.net/forums/group.php?groupid=1930
GTA 6 Thread
https://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?819300-GTA-6-Reveal-Trailer
"We're nice mainly because we're rich and comfortable."
There's no military solution to the Gaza strip though, unless you want to create even worse images than already the case. Unless Israel decides to send them on another trail of tears (where to though?) the Palestinians go nowhere and can go nowhere. Unless Israel decides to full on starve them to death, supplies have to go in. As long as supplies go in there will be Palestinians doing with those what they can to resist, as they have next to nothing to lose, and Israel proceeds to kill Palestine by a thousand cuts, expelling the people from one small area after the other.
It's easy to say that firing those rockets at Israel was bad, but quite frankly I do not see what alternatives the Palestinians actually do have with the very limited means they have.
As for a political solution there can't be one as long as Israel doesn't want one. A two-state solution is impossible, as that'd mean giving up land which Israel has no intention of doing, as illustrated by the fact that the whole conflict was sparked by Israel continuously colonising Eastern Jerusalem - which pretty much the entire international community does not consider theirs to begin with. One just has to look at a map to recognise that Sheikh Jarrah was by far neither the first, nor will it be the last place where Lebensraum is going to be taken.
A one-state solution cannot happen either, as that'd mean giving ~5 million Palestinians living there citizenship, which would turn the 70% Israeli Jewish majority into a minority.
It is this pointlessness of pressing through with a ground invasion on Gaza that's what made the government reconsider, not any good will. Nor is there any realistic truth to Hamas having bested Israel. In other words the reactions by the politicians is simply election campaigning.
The very significant flow of money to Gaza btw. started with Israeli consent in order to make them break with Assad. Stopping the flow of money would simply mean that either someone else would have to foot the bill, or Gaza be starved, with the added bonus of Hamas likely allying once more with Hezbollah, Iran and Syria, which is not in the interest of Israel either.
A very interesting -and enlightening article,Why Palestinian Elections Should Get Back on Track
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Let's face reality.Sooner or later the Palestinians, Gaza and West bank will be wiped off the map. This raises an intriguing question-what happens next?
Il y a quelque chose de pire que d'avoir une âme perverse. C’est d'avoir une âme habituée
Charles Péguy
Every human society must justify its inequalities: reasons must be found because, without them, the whole political and social edifice is in danger of collapsing”.
Thomas Piketty
Nothing much. As the Israeli tighten the noose, Hamas will reach for more extremist support, resulting in even more loss of support in the west. Eventually, nobody but Iran will care about Palestinians, and even Iran will know better than to start a real fight over them.
We'll see a lot of talk but no action.
Yes, it’s definitely electioneering, but I think the rhetoric reflects the concerns and criticisms (realistic or otherwise) that the Netanyahu government is facing from inside the country. I realized after reading your response to it, that some of it probably needs translating for an outside audience. For one thing, few Israelis ever think in terms of resolving the conflict, because most don't believe it's resolvable within the foreseeable future, if ever.
I often see Netanyahu characterized as a right-wing hardliner in the international media. Inside Israel, he tends to be viewed as a coward who never has a real plan beyond staying in power. He relies on both the Religious Zionist and Haredi parties for any potential parliamentary majority, so the priorities of the former are overserved with regard to the settlements and the priorities of the latter with regard to social issues. These parties will only continue to support him as long as he supports their agendas. His own core of loyal voters tend to be center-right working class Mizrahi Jews, who generally have utter contempt for the notion that they should care what Europeans think about them, and maybe even more contempt for "elitist" Ashkenazi Jews, particularly of the American variety (though they like Americans otherwise). If Netanyahu does something or says something that pisses off the international community, for them that’s a bonus. They also seem to be pretty convinced that Bibi is the only one really looking out for them.
The complaints from across the political spectrum about the Qatari money going to Hamas isn’t about the aid, it’s that it passes through Hamas, meaning Hamas gets credit for it and almost certainly skims off some (or a lot) for military purposes. This has always been a problem. The people in Gaza need building materials, but building materials get used to make underground military facilities, etc. Incidentally, an attempt was made to send aid to the Gazan civilians during the fighting, but the trucks bringing it were met with a barrage of mortar fire. Anyway, creating a system where aid doesn't pass through the hands of Hamas would be possible, with a third party, but Netanyahu hasn't done it.
No one really believes that Hamas bested the IDF, what they believe is that Hamas basically won on the political front. The protests in Jerusalem were mostly a grassroots phenomenon, but due to proximity, Fatah could take some credit for them. Hamas fired rockets at Israel in order to position themselves as the true defenders of Jerusalem and to make the PA look irrelevant. In the eyes of the Palestinians, they appear to have succeeded. Israelis know that Hamas has various reasons to attack Israel in order to boost their own prestige. It is generally believed that the only way to prevent this is to make it so costly for Hamas in terms of deaths of their leaders and degradation of their capabilities, they’ll at least be very wary about doing it. A lot of Israelis see the fact that Hamas was still able to launch rockets up to the last minute as evidence that their capabilities hadn’t yet been sufficiently degraded. It is also widely believed that seriously destroying Hamas over any major escalation, will reduce the likelihood of war with Hezbollah, on the grounds that Hezbollah won't want to take shots at Israel for the sake of gaining some prestige if it means massive destruction of their military capabilities and their leaders being hunted down. It is also widely believed that despite relatively poor performance on the IDF's part during the 2006 conflict, the damage done is the reason for the long quiet on that front. Although, I think some of that has been due to Hezbollah being distracted with Syria and their priorities shifting more toward wanting to be seen as a legitimate Lebanese political party.
Another complaint is regarding the terms of the ceasefire, or rather lack thereof. Many were hoping that at bare minimum, Hamas would be required to return the bodies of dead soldiers and the captive Israeli citizens they’re holding. On that one, I don't understand why it (apparently) wasn't demanded, it seems to me that the return of hostages would be something the international community would be sympathetic to. Of course, some did want Hamas finally destroyed. But of course there is no point in that without a viable plan for what comes next, which Netanyahu almost certainly doesn't have. The Israeli leadership also kind of prefers the devil they know, to whatever might fill a power vacuum.
This well is very polluted with snarky false narratives, but they were actually responding to a point I made and I think it was relevant.
The only way Israel can stop giving Hamas reasons that are recognised by its backers is to stop existing. Hamas does not exist to serve world opinion (although it has got better at satisfying it) nor does it exist to serve the people in Gaza (who it uses as human shields), it serves Islamist ideology that scores points by killing Israelis. It has happily spent many Arab lives to take a few Israeli ones and calls that a victory.
Israel mostly satisfy world opinion by observing the rule of law, keeping treaties, holding elections, extraditing wanted criminals (sometimes slowly but they get there) etc. They do overstep the mark, and have some media tactics for dealing with critics like all regimes do.
Yes I don't like the settlements, but in a remorseless war for territory with Hamas that denies any chance of peaceful coexistence any tool will be used.
I hope you are right, and Israel can relax. You can surely understand why they might not. It would be cheap to reply with the John Oliver meme, but I will mention this. In 1901 if you said "a major European power will try to exterminate all Jews" most people would have said "come on people its the 20th century". A few wise heads would have said "maybe the Tsar will go crazy", and one or two people might have suspected Republican France might go off the rails. No one would have tipped the Second Reich as the locus of the Holocaust, no one. It was tolerant, orderly and looked on as a refuge for Eastern European Jews en route to the US.
More recently Israel felt so secure in 1973 they ignored an Egyptian mobilisation ("there has already been two in the previous six months, its just sabre rattling, Egypt has learned their lesson") and sent everyone home for Yom Kippur, and got booted out of the Sinai peninsula.
History is not on your side in your assessment that threats to Israel are over.
Israel got to this point of relative security by savage warmaking, campaigns of assassination and unilaterally seizing land, and not letting an inch go with having it prised from their fingers by superpowers (I think both the USA and the Soviets have had to browbeat Israel at various stages) and allegedly holding their neighbours to nuclear ransom. Most of time they adopted a collectivist Socialist regime which outraged the US and they knifed the USSR when it suited them, they gave zero ****s.
Smashing the Egyptians in the face until they saw reason seems to have worked, ditto the PLO, murdering Hamas leaders whenever there was a suicide bombing seems to have worked, but you want them to not reply to rocket fire? Why would they not? I agree the settlements are a bad thing but why wouldn't Israel use them as a cats paw? Iran uses Hamas as a cats paw, this is how the game is being played in Palestine.
Jatte lambastes Calico Rat
The New York Times Opinion | Bernie Sanders: The Approach
...a voice crying out in the desert. Meanwhile, the “self-hating Jew” is preparing To Introduce Resolution Opposing $735...And, tragically, those evictions are just one part of a broader system of political and economic oppression. For years we have seen a deepening Israeli occupation in the West Bank and East Jerusalem and a continuing blockade on Gaza that make life increasingly intolerable for Palestinians...Further, we have seen Benjamin Netanyahu’s government work to marginalize and demonize Palestinian citizens of Israel, pursue settlement policies designed to foreclose the possibility of a two-state solution and pass laws that entrench systemic inequality between Jewish and Palestinian citizens of Israel.
...doomed to fail.Will the latest round of violence change anything in Israel and Palestine? Not at all.
How Team Biden orchestrated a shorter war in Gaza - POLITICO
To conclude, I am mainly interested in knowing what will happen after the total absorption of the Palestinian territories in the near future.Israel and Lebanon are still officially at war.One question now is whether the Biden administration will make the Israeli-Palestinian conflict more of a priority. Biden took office with no illusions that he would be able to solve the long-running dispute. He has been more focused on other challenges, such as those posed by China’s rise and the coronavirus pandemic.
Right-Wing Israelis Knock Tel Aviv For 'Enemy Flag' Display ...
Edit,...some right-wingers, including the son of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, have criticized the gesture of solidarity.
There is no peaceful coexistence inside a military occupied territory.In Judea/Israel, Rome ruled with Herodian client-kings and we can't say that Jewish resistance was nonviolent.Biden says that the two states solution is the best option. Yet, Israel isn't interested in a two states solution,even with the Palestinian Authority taking control of Gaza. It will never happen.
Last edited by Ludicus; May 23, 2021 at 11:13 AM.
Il y a quelque chose de pire que d'avoir une âme perverse. C’est d'avoir une âme habituée
Charles Péguy
Every human society must justify its inequalities: reasons must be found because, without them, the whole political and social edifice is in danger of collapsing”.
Thomas Piketty