The Israeli-Palestinian conflict

[Ludicus]

His translation..My translation:

The Jewish journalist says, "underneath the smooth look there seems to be just plain old racism".
Once upon a time, thousands of years ago, there was a Jewish state somewhere in the middle east. The Arabs were still in prehistoric times, "climbing in the trees".

Originally Posted by Mithradates

the main contributors to anti-semitism in today's Europe is...hostility toward Israel.

Here, in the post revolutionary period,also known as the 25 April, the communists used to say: " the criticism of the communist party undermines the revolution". The idea was to silence any criticism as being "counter-revolutionary".
Criticism of Israel right wing policies is not antisemitism.Criticism of some Islamic states is not antisemitism.Criticism of some US policies is not anti-Americanism, etc ad nauseam.
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I take no issue with that statement.

Really, are the Israeli Jews the craziest people in the world? I don't think so. And the same applies to the Arabs.

What?

The Palestinians, geographically speaking ,aren't they surrounded?
Herzog, the new President, Herzog laid out his views about the establishment of a Palestinian state and the 1967 lines in a September 2011 article in Foreign Affairs.Why Israel Should Vote for Palestinian Independence

[nhytgbvfeco2]

Really, are the Israeli Jews the craziest people in the world? I don't think so. And the same applies to the Arabs.

That wasn't what you said, and that wasn't what Bennet said.

The Palestinians, geographically speaking ,aren't they surrounded?

Well yeah, but they don't surround Israel do they?

[agnes69]

[Ludicus]

that wasn't what Bennet said.

It's an analogy. Bennet, the racist, claimed "we are surrounded by the craziest people in the world". People, not Hamas.

but they don't surround Israel do they?

If you are talking about the Arabic countries in the region, it seems, according to Bennet, that Israel is surrounded by the "craziest people in the world".
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Michael Sfard is an Israeli human rights lawyer.Read the full article Why Israeli progressives have started to talk about 'apartheid ...

When I first heard this argument from Palestinians 20 years ago, I rejected it. But the evidence is mounting before our eyes

[sumskilz]

The Jewish journalist says, "underneath the smooth look there seems to be just plain old racism".
Once upon a time, thousands of years ago, there was a Jewish state somewhere in the middle east. The Arabs were still in prehistoric times, "climbing in the trees".

I don't have any doubt that Noam Sheizaf would consider Bennett's dismissive comment about Arab achievement to be גזענות, which he would translate as "racism" for lack of a better term, but most Israelis (and likely him included) don't even understand the concept of race, as we use the word in English. Based on what I've heard from him, I'm fairly certain that Noam Sheizaf would characterize the vast majority Israelis as "racist", everyone to the right of Meretz anyway.

Although, when Israelis say "racist", they mean something more like "ethnocentric". When they say "deposit", they mean "savings account". When they say "commission", they mean "fee". When they say "nachos", they mean "corn chips". When they say "seminar", they mean "term paper". When they say "chaser", they mean "shot". When they say "burrito", they mean "wrap". When they say "already", I don't know what the they mean. The list could go on and on and on...

[Mithradates]

Criticism of Israel right wing policies is not antisemitism.

Indeed. But it is still a main contributor, thats just how the world is.
On the other hand, islamic anti-semitism is as real as it gets.
I bet those jews feel safer in those evil right-wing countries than in those very liberal muslim suburbs in Paris.

[Ludicus]

most Israelis don't even understand the concept of race,

Come on, sumskilz. Israel is not a paradise in earth where no one is racist.
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[sumskilz]

Come on, sumskilz. Israel is not a paradise in earth where no one is racist.
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It seems like you've misunderstood my point, see post #196.

[nhytgbvfeco2]

It's an analogy. Bennet, the racist, claimed "we are surrounded by the craziest people in the world". People, not Hamas.

Lol, and who do you suppose are the members of Hamas? Manatees?

If you are talking about the Arabic countries in the region, it seems, according to Bennet, that Israel is surrounded by the "craziest people in the world".

You do not lose your humanity upon joining a terrorist organisation, only your right to live.

Michael Sfard is an Israeli human rights lawyer.Read the full article Why Israeli progressives have started to talk about 'apartheid ...

I really couldn't care less what she thinks. If there's anything specific you'd like to bring up feel free to quote it, I'm not reading that entire article without even knowing what it is you're expecting me to reply to.

[Ludicus]

Indeed. But it is still a main contributor.

No, its not.The criticism of Israel right wing policies is not a main cause of antisemitism.Just as European Jews once did, so Palestinians now, demand recognition of their dignity as human beings. They do not wish to be reduced to human material, to being counters in a game played by others.
The main causes of anti-Semitism in Europe go back a very long way.The resentment against Jews, arose because they were blatantly non-Christians in a Christian Europe (my home country in the Middle Ages was negatively considered to be a Jewish country).Call it "proto-anti-Semitism". In the 1890s , the Pan-German League,a precursor of post-war National Socialism, was anti-Semitic and anti-Slavist, and the antisemitism began to take on new forms from 1918 onward, stimulated by the immigration of eastern Jews into Germany during the war and by the desire of nationalists to find scapegoats for Germany’s ills.
Isaiah Berlin,

no minority that has preserved its own cultural tradition or religious or racial characteristics can indefinitely tolerate the prospect of remaining a minority for ever, governed by a majority with a different outlook or habits. And this may indeed account for the reaction of wounded pride, or the sense of collective injustice, which animates, for example, Zionism, or its mirror-image, the movement of the Palestinian Arabs, or such "ethnic" minorities as Negroes in the United States or Irish Catholics in Ulster

.The Crooked Timber of Humanity: Chapters in the History of

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Lol, and who do you suppose are the members of Hamas? Manatees?

Bennet was referring to Arabs in general, "the craziest people" in the world.

I'm not reading that entire article without even knowing what it is you're expecting me to reply to.

He says that is Israel is an apartheid country. In 2014, John Kerry, US secretary warned that if Israel did not make peace soon, under a two-state solution, it could become an apartheid state,

If the choice is one state, Israel can either be Jewish or democratic; it cannot be both, and it won't ever really be at peace

[nhytgbvfeco2]

Bennet was referring to Arabs in general, "the craziest people" in the world.

He was referring to members of these organisations.

He says that is Israel is an apartheid country.

Oh wow, a far-left member of an NGO funded by the EU and Soros (literally.) thinks that there's apartheid while clearly not understanding what apartheid is? no way! I'm shocked!

In 2014, John Kerry, US secretary warned that if Israel did not make peace soon, under a two-state solution, it could become an apartheid state,

It is, quite simply put, impossible to reach a two-state solution currently. Maybe, though highly unlikely, in a decade, or more likely a generation or two, perhaps more, but eventually it'll be possible. I'd be happy to see the conflict resolved and a two-state solution implemented, but it's not realistic within the near future. I don't see how it taking longer would magically turn Israel into an apartheid state. Apartheid isn't defined by how long a certain state of being lasts. The status quo persevering will not transform it into anything but what it already is.

[Cope]

Oh wow, a far-left member of an NGO funded by the EU and Soros (literally.) thinks that there's apartheid while clearly not understanding what apartheid is? no way! I'm shocked!

Not even Human Rights Watch calls Israel an apartheid state.

[Infidel144]

Criticism of Israel right wing policies is not antisemitism.

Indeed. But it is still a main contributor, thats just how the world is.
On the other hand, islamic anti-semitism is as real as it gets.
I bet those jews feel safer in those evil right-wing countries than in those very liberal muslim suburbs in Paris.

No, no. When people waving Palestinian flags go around attacking Jews in LA or Ne York or London or Canada or drive around shouting 'kill the jews' 'rape their daughters' that is just "Criticism of Israel right wing policies" and "not antisemitism"

Who remembers a few years back with the 'Hitler/swastika' kite bombs and the dude from Gaza flying them saying it was because the it makes Jews crazy?

[enoch]

Not even Human Rights Watch calls Israel an apartheid state.

As often is the case, your information is dated.

https://www.hrw.org/report/2021/04/2...nd-persecution

[swabian]

As often is the case, your information is dated.

https://www.hrw.org/report/2021/04/2...nd-persecution

As always is the case, your questions are pretty stupid. This is not a topic for easily swooning princesses.

[Cope]

As often is the case, your information is dated.

https://www.hrw.org/report/2021/04/2...nd-persecution

From that report:

The report does not set out to compare Israel with South Africa under apartheid or to determine whether Israel is an “apartheid state”—a concept that is not defined in international law.

[Ludicus]

He was referring to members of these organisations.

To the Arabs.
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Interview with a religious fanatic. Addresses several topics –monkeys in the trees, one state or two states, the judicial decision of the Supreme Court of Israel, the illegally occupied territories- and more.

The Bible says West Bank is ours



One state or two states? Bennet says neither one nor the other. According to Bennet, most of the Arab Muslim world envies the status of the Palestinians, Jordan is a Palestinian state, Israel is Spain, the Palestinians are basques, and the Bible rules.
He also challenges the interviewer to give him to the name of one, just one Palestinian living in a home and has his home taken away from him.

...Basques want a state but they dont have one...my dear, what you need to do is go back and change the Bible,you need to change the narrative of the bible because it’s all there. Billions of Muslims and Christians believe in the bible. If you are saying our land doesn’t belong to us go change the bible first, come back and show me a new bible. This is our land for roughly three thousand years before Islam came to the world.In 1967 we released Judea and Samaria from an occupied status.My decision is clear, that land is ours.The land of Israel has always been Jewish for thousands of years, will always be Jewish.

End of story.
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Israel risks becoming apartheid state if peace talks fail, says ...(2014)

The US secretary of state, John Kerry, has warned in a closed-door meeting in Washington that Israel risks becoming an "apartheid state" if US-sponsored efforts to reach an Israeli-Palestinian peace settlement fail.

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“apartheid state”—a concept that is not defined in international law.

The crime of apartheid is defined by the 2002 Rome Statute of the I.C.Court, and under the International Convention on the Suppression and Punishment of the Crime of Apartheid.
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When people waving Palestinian flags go around attacking Jews in LA or Ne York or London or Canada or drive around shouting 'kill the jews' 'rape their daughters' that is just "Criticism of Israel right wing policies" and "not antisemitism"

Criticism and violence are different things. It's a problem in and of itself. But much anti-Semitism in the US still comes from the far-right, including the gunman who killed 11 people at a synagogue in Pittsburgh in 2018- says the BBC.
Contemporary Antisemitism in the United States, INSS Research Fellow, Dr. Michal Hatuel-Radoshitzky asks Co-founder of The Global Project Against Hate and Extremism, Dr. Heidi Beirich, about right-wing extremism in the United States.
INSS Israel

[nhytgbvfeco2]

To the Arabs.

Well, no, ISIS has plenty of non-Arab members, including some Kurds, and Hezbollah for example has some Druze (who depending on your outlook may or may not be Arabs).
Regardless, it's not "to the Arabs", it's to the members of the organisations.

One state or two states? Bennet says neither one nor the other. According to Bennet, most of the Arab Muslim world envies the status of the Palestinians, Jordan is a Palestinian state, Israel is Spain, the Palestinians are basques, and the Bible rules.
He also challenges the interviewer to give him to the name of one, just one Palestinian living in a home and has his home taken away from him.


End of story.

I'm confused, do you prefer Netanyahu?
Who did you think would replace him? I've been telling you all along: Netanyahu is centre-right, a moderate.

Israel risks becoming apartheid state if peace talks fail, says ...(2014)

You've already posted this. Should I copy-paste my reply?

The crime of apartheid is defined by the 2002 Rome Statute of the I.C.Court, and under the International Convention on the Suppression and Punishment of the Crime of Apartheid.

Note how it requires discrimination based on race, which does not apply in the case of Israel.

[enoch]

From that report:

Did you miss the statements where it says Israeli policies have crossed over in apartheid in various places. It is a great read. Overall though, can one seriously read this report as anything other than a criticism of Israel for violating human rights laws?

@swabian, if you could restate coherently I am willing to discuss whatever it is you were failing to articulate.

[Ludicus]

do you prefer Netanyahu?

They are all the same. Netanyahu is Trump and Bennet is Ted Cruz on steroids.

which does not apply in the case of Israel.

Nothing applies to Israel.

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Bennet is the arch racist, a zealot nationalist colonizer. Ayelet Shaked, Bennett's number two on his Yamina Party list (predicted to be the new Israeli Interior Minister),called for the slaughter of Palestinian mothers who give birth to "little snakes" and declared every Palestinian a de facto enemy.On the eve of lauching the attacks on Gaza Ayelet Shaked, at the time an Israeli Knesset member and later appointed Israel’s justice minister, posted on her facebook page the following,
Israel's new justice minister considers all Palestinians to be the enemy -Washington Post.(2015)

This is an article by the late Uri Elitzur ( a former adviser to Prime MinisterBenjamin Nethanyhu), which was written 12 years ago, but remained unpublished. It is as relevant today as it was at the time:
"Behind every terrorist stand dozens of men and women, without whom he could not engage in terrorism. They are all enemy combatants, and their blood shall be on all their heads. Now this also includes the mothers of the martyrs, who send them to hell with flowers and kisses. They should follow their sons, nothing would be more just. They should go, as should the physical homes in which they raised the snakes. Otherwise, more little snakes will be raised there. They have to die and their houses should be demolished so that they cannot bear any more terrorists.There is nothing more just and probably nothing more efficient.Every suicide attacker should know he takes with him also his parents ans his house ans some of his neighbors"