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Thread: 2.35A R2 Roman Marian savegame (146 BC)

  1. #1

    Default 2.35A R2 Roman Marian savegame (146 BC)

    I've enjoyed this mod so much and appreciated the help from the community for my questions, that I wanted to share this with everyone. Here's a savegame from my Roman campaign, on the first turn of the Marian reforms kicking in. Enjoy 146BC, in the consulship of Manius Julius Caesar and Kaeso Sergius Orata (yes, that's right, Julius Caesar triggered the Marian reforms...)

    Be warned, this is not an easy start. I've deliberately (and because I got bored) neglected rebels, the family tree and recruitment for the past 30 years/120 turns. You start with mostly terrible family members, a negative treasury, negative income and most settlements with high unrest, while nearly every settlement has a giant rebel stack waiting outside. Additionally, the Ptolemies, the Gauls, Bosporan Greeks and Dacians can be expected to attack you any turn.

    As positives, you have 3 incredible (though aging) leaders with imperium, a giant assortment of (pre-Marian) units already recruited and waiting in cities, well built infrastructure, a solid Italy and some solidly Romanized provinces with an even more impressive roster of allied cities throughout the Empire.

    For additional difficulty, stop running entertainment/turn up taxes in Segeda and Athens to resurrect the Celtiberians and KH respectively. They'll re-emerge on the next turn once the cities riot.

    If you're interested in the background of how things got here/what you start with:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    The pre-eminent family of the republic has been the Scipios. Gnaeus Africanus, who triumphed over the Carthaginians, and Publius Macedonicus (who just died of old age the last turn, in 146BC). Sadly, a Macedonian assassin and a botched invasion of Alexandria killed off the 3 other Scipios, and family tree issues meant the last survivor, Publius, never had children or adopted. So ended the greatest of the Roman families.

    Your 3 main generals/important characters are:

    Manius Julius Caesar (7 stars/5 confidence): Current Consul, reformator who passed the Marian reforms. Formerly Legate of the late Publius Macedonicus during the 3rd Macedonian war. He received his first triumph at age 28, after decisive victories over the Macedonians, the second youngest Roman ever to have a triumph. Nearly killed in an ambush outside of Pella during that war.

    Kaeso Sergius Orata (5 stars/3 confidence): Current Consul. Older colleague of Caesar, who also passed the reforms. Formerly Legate of the late Publius Macedonicus during the 2nd and Praetor during the 3rd Macedonian War. He led the final expedition to Byzantion that finally ended the Macedonian threat forever

    Sextus Valerius Maximus (4 stars/4 confidence): Currently Proconsul. Formerly Propraetor during the 3rd Macedonian War. Won his first triumph at age 24 (!) during the 2nd Macedonian War as a Tribunus Militum. Youngest Roman triumphator ever. Arch-conservative, tried to block the Marian reforms but failed (I guess? He must not have been happy either way, as an Optimate).


    You begin at peace with everyone except rebels, Lusitania and Mauretania are your vassals. Italy as a whole has been well built out. There are 4 main provinces:

    Cisalpine Gaul (provincial capital Bononia, governor is currently in Patavium)
    Sicily (Syracause, governor is there)
    Africa (Carthago, governor is there)
    Hispania Citerior (Carthago Nova, no governor, just a legate)

    Everywhere else are allied or free cities. Note for these I did constant upgrades of walls/farms, etc but not temples. Only provinces should have their own temples replaced by Roman ones.

    Hispania outside of the 3 Romanized cities of Carthago Nova, Contrebia and Segeda have been loyal, very important sources of allied troops for most of the game, so they haven't been provinced and shouldn't be if you're roleplaying. The Lusitanians expanded south and I fought a single war with them, went north and took all of their cities except their last one, then forced them to become a vassal. The Averni moved across the mountains from Gaul and took the rebel city that I'd hoped the Lusitani would take, but didn't for years, and have been at war with the Lusitanians since. I haven't gotten involved but if you wanted to attack someone, the Averni are attacking the friends and allies of Rome....

    The Punic cities of Utica and Hadrumetum have been likewise very loyal and important for troops and are also not provinced. I was allied to Numidia against Carthage and gave extra cities I didn't want to Numidia. Those bastards backstabbed me in spite of free money/cities/alliance, so I took all of their cities and they've only had camps left since (of which they lost 1 to rebels) and are a vassal. They haven't revolted since.

    The Balearics, Sardinia and Corsica haven't been provinced and have been loyal, good money-makers for the whole game.

    Transalpine Gaul has been mostly quiet. The Gauls have never attacked me directly, but the Averni did attack the vassal Lusitanians in Hispania, and haven't had much success over many years. Might be worthwhile to try out the new Marian legions on them.

    Cisalpine Gaul has been thoroughly Romanized, especially Bononia. At one point the Boii came through the Alps from the northeast to attack Patavium, but my governor and provincial forces drove them off, and took their city in Rhaetia, which I gave to the Aedui, because it was far away and I hoped that would start a war between them. The Aedui sent a stack close to Patavium last turn to see if they should attack I guess, so I sent my governor and some reinforcements there, then they backed off.

    Illyria is a recent addition, formerly held by rebels and Macedonians. Not Romanized or provinced at all, and more of a pain than anything. Some infrastructure built out though.

    Greece has been a mixed bag. The islands have been very loyal and good for recruitment, but the mainland has been a giant pain. I liberated them from the Macedonians but they didn't care. Athens in particular rose up, slaughtered its Italian/Roman garrison and resurrected the KH. When I retook it, I sacked the city and destroyed all commercial buildings to help manage unrest. This is an area ripe for provincing/Romanization.

    Macedonia is the most recent addition to the empire. We fought 4 wars against an increasingly shrinking and suicidal Macedonia. At one point they controlled all of Greece, Illyria and even parts of Dacia, and fought with the Getai/Pergamon, but always came after me eventually until I had enough. Also good for provincing, but Demetrias in particular is good for the cavalry/has been loyal since taken.

    Cyrene is a loyal allied city that the Ptolemies attack very often and try to stir up unrest in with spies, they might try again soon, because they usually go for that or Cyprus, which has also been loyal and not provinced.

    Pergamon is a Roman ally, that I gave Ephesus to after liberating it from the Ptolemies because there was too much unrest. They've been loyal allies since, but have recently come under Ptolemaic attacks. Would be good to jump in and help them out.

    Aside from that, the Bosporan Greeks attacked Byzantion once or twice before being defeated/wanting peace, but they have been a punching bag for the Getai for most of the game.

    Attached Files Attached Files

  2. #2
    Antiokhos Euergetes's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: 2.35A R2 Roman Marian savegame (146 BC)

    Sounds like you have been having an awesome campaign, its a pity I can not start it again in the knowledge it will be as enthralling

  3. #3

    Default Re: 2.35A R2 Roman Marian savegame (146 BC)

    Nice
    Last edited by bordinis; May 15, 2021 at 11:46 AM.

  4. #4
    Roma_Victrix's Avatar I am your sovereign now
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    Default Re: 2.35A R2 Roman Marian savegame (146 BC)

    Cool stuff! I like the history of the campaign you presented too. Sounds like a decent-sized Roman Republic by that point. Although you've made things difficult, it is easy to turn things around as the Romans as I experienced in my 1000-turn campaign. Cheers to you and thanks for sharing this.

  5. #5
    isa0005's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: 2.35A R2 Roman Marian savegame (146 BC)

    Odd.. doesn't seem to want to load. Game CTDs whenever I try.

  6. #6
    Antiokhos Euergetes's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: 2.35A R2 Roman Marian savegame (146 BC)

    What happened further east with regards to the Seleukids and Arsakids?

  7. #7

    Default Re: 2.35A R2 Roman Marian savegame (146 BC)

    Thanks guys! It has been fun and yes Roma Victrix, you can definitely turn it around. I played on and spent about 3-4 years just playing whack-a-mole with rebels while trying to stall the Getai and Ptolemies, but the cities are pretty well built out, so your economy recovers once the rebel devestation ends.

    isa0005
    : That's strange. Looks like it's been downloaded a bunch but nobody has been mentioning problems. I didn't use any submods (like the movement or family tree one), just a vanilla install. Could that be it?

    Antiokhos Euergetes: Heh, well, the Seleukids seem to have been ganged up on by everyone and anyone for most of the game. The Indian faction (Tashk...) came rampaging out to take them from the east and started making progress, the Ptolemies, Pergamon and Pontus started attacking them in the west with little success. At one point, Armenia (Hayastan?) joined in and cut them down the middle, while the Sabaa (the other faction down south that is not the Nabeatans) came up from the south and even took Babylon at one point. As of the savegame, I think the Sabaa got kicked back out of Babylon, but the Armenians cutting the empire in half meant the Indian faction took the entire east and the Seleukids hold 2 cities in the west (Nikomedia and Ipsos), with 3 more cities around Seleukia, with Persepolis passing back and forth between them every other turn. In my played on game (132 BC by now), the Seleukids lost everything except Ipsos, then waited until the Ptolemies attacked Pergamon to backstab them and took most of Asia Minor.

    The Arsakids are embroiled in a 3 way war between Baktria and Saka that has also gone on for most of the game. At one point it looked like the Baktrians would take out the last Arsakid city, then Saka attacks them and Baktria even lost the city Baktria and was almost wiped out. Then the Saka are winning so the Arsakids attack them, but then Baktria backstabs them both....I should post some screenshots, things developed in an interesting way for the factions.




  8. #8
    Raiuga's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: 2.35A R2 Roman Marian savegame (146 BC)

    Confirm that the save is working on my side! No sub-mods on the instalation I used.

  9. #9

    Default Re: 2.35A R2 Roman Marian savegame (146 BC)

    Here are some screenshots from the Rome campaign above, and one from my now abandoned Epiros campaign (too many daughters and client rulers meant the royal family died out, it's not as much fun after that) and a faction progression pic I put together showing world changes from 220BC to 146BC.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 220to146factprog.jpg   176rome.jpg   188rome.jpg   207rome.jpg   220rome.jpg  

    146Asturia.jpg   146Baktria.jpg   146Ipsos.jpg   146Pontus.jpg   217epirus.jpg  


  10. #10
    Roma_Victrix's Avatar I am your sovereign now
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    Default Re: 2.35A R2 Roman Marian savegame (146 BC)

    Cool! Thanks for sharing the screenshots.

    This presents a great starting position for Rome. The year 146 BC is a great save point considering that's the year the Roman Republic destroyed both Carthage and Corinth, solidifying their control of the eastern Maghreb and Greece on opposite sides of the Mediterranean. I like how the Ptolemies are a massive juggernaut but it's a shame the Seleucids have essentially been reduced to rump state irrelevance. Still, the Roman player should have plenty of opportunities to fight against Hellenistic armies with the factions of Pergamon and the Bosporan Kingdom as additional obstacles for eastern expansion. It's a good thing you left the northwestern corner of the Iberian peninsula alone so the player at least has some chance to fight a native Iberian faction, namely the Lusitani. With the Marian reforms kicked in and southern Gaul already secured (as it was historically by this point too), I would focus on conquering all of central Gaul about 8-9 decades earlier than Gaius Julius Caesar did historically, using your Manius Julius Caesar character instead.

  11. #11
    Antiokhos Euergetes's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: 2.35A R2 Roman Marian savegame (146 BC)

    Thank you Victor awesome screens and campaign

  12. #12

    Default Re: 2.35A R2 Roman Marian savegame (146 BC)

    Thanks guys! I've been enjoying the history descriptions of the various units and buildings around the Marian reforms and have learned a lot, but also came up with new questions. For the Marian legions specifically:


    1. Did the cohort not replace the maniple as the smallest tactical unit? The units you can recruit are called cohorts, but within the description of the first cohort, it makes references to maniples.


    2. The Marian legions were recruited for 6 year terms, and there are lots of references I've read of Caesar for example, levying new legions to replace losses instead of sending replacements to existing legions. Does this mean that I shouldn't retrain cohort units (ie, that they never got replacements?). If so, lots of things make a lot of sense all of a sudden, like how Caesar's Gallic legions are constantly referred to as being understrength or how Octavian ended up with such an insane number of (likely understrength) legions after Actium.


    3. What are the rules regarding the post-Marian legionary light infantry (antesignani) in terms of retraining? I know the unit card mentions they are regular Romans with a different function and equipment but are they supposed to represent the auxilia infantry in the same way the post-Marian auxilia cavalry unit does?


    4. I don't know if I read it somewhere on a unit card or a building description (maybe for one of the Roman merchant buildings) or somewhere else, but there was a reference to legionary societies of soldiers paying into a common fund for funerals, etc. What was the name of this thing?

  13. #13
    Laetus
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    Default Re: 2.35A R2 Roman Marian savegame (146 BC)

    To your first point, IIRC, it was customary after the Marian reforms to call a unit made up of two centuriae, so a third of a cohort a maniple.

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