Peloponnesian War Question

**WRL** · May 07, 2021, 01:24 PM

Salve Citizens,

I have a quick question, I'm a big history nerd, and I love classical Greek History nearly as much as Roman History, so I really want to play the Peloponnesian War from the wrath of Sparta DLC, now I know you've replaced that with your Macedonian wars campaign, but I really want to play the Peloponnesian Wars, my question is if I use the submod to restore wrath of Sparta, will it work with DeI? Like Rise of the Republic, or Hannibal at the Gates, or Caesar in Gaul, will I still have all the cool DeI features like population, etc. etc? Obviously reforms are probably not happening, but with the core of the experience still be there like the other DLC's or will it be a 100% vanilla experience at that point?

Thank you for any help you can provide.

**Hazzard** · May 07, 2021, 02:02 PM

Your best option might be to find the last version of DeI before the Macedonian Wars updates.

**WRL** · May 07, 2021, 03:52 PM

Do you know if the wrath of Sparta campaign reverts to vanilla or if it will still play wrath of Sparta with the DeI changes? I'd hate to have to do all that, and probably wouldn't, just suck it up several hundred years later in the Macedonian wars era but man I really want to replay the Peloponnesian wars. It's a very rich period of history and I know the tactics get a bit hammer and anvily, if I can make up a word here, but it's still fun and there was some interesting military devs to play with from the era...

**Callicles** · May 08, 2021, 08:57 PM

I'm also a fan of the classical period. If you look on the official submod page, you can find a link to a version of Wrath of Sparta that works with DEI. (https://www.twcenter.net/forums/show...ficial-Submods)

It works, but it has its limitations. For example, because there are no reforms, the factions can recruit both Iphikratean Peltasts and reformed peltasts from the start. Athens can recruit Skiritai mercenaries from Athens, too. The Macedonian Wars campaign is fully developed and polished, as you would expect from the DEI team. WOS needs a big update if it is to be truly playable form an historical perspective.

**WRL** · May 09, 2021, 05:30 PM

Originally Posted by Callicles

I'm also a fan of the classical period. If you look on the official submod page, you can find a link to a version of Wrath of Sparta that works with DEI. (https://www.twcenter.net/forums/show...ficial-Submods)

It works, but it has its limitations. For example, because there are no reforms, the factions can recruit both Iphikratean Peltasts and reformed peltasts from the start. Athens can recruit Skiritai mercenaries from Athens, too. The Macedonian Wars campaign is fully developed and polished, as you would expect from the DEI team. WOS needs a big update if it is to be truly playable form an historical perspective.

Awesome bud, yeah that's the link to the submod which points back to wrath of sparta. I am very happy to hear at least most of it seems to work? Is that a fair assumption, or am I going to be so frustrated with it I should just stick to Macedonian wars to get my greek geek out?

**Callicles** · May 10, 2021, 09:17 AM

Macedonian Wars is so much better it really is no comparison, but give it a shot and see what you think. Word of advice, before you try it, write down your mod load order so you can revert back easily enough.

**WRL** · May 22, 2021, 05:57 PM

Originally Posted by Callicles

Macedonian Wars is so much better it really is no comparison, but give it a shot and see what you think. Word of advice, before you try it, write down your mod load order so you can revert back easily enough.

I'm sure they built it up pretty nice, DeI hasn't disapointed yet, love the mod don't get me wrong, I just don't see how Philip V's losing and ever desperate gambles in the so called Macedonian wars, let alone the impostor pretending to be his kid, could possibly compare to the legendary Peloponnesian wars. I'll never understand the change of setting, other than it saved time with unit models not needing to change.

**KAM 2150** · May 23, 2021, 12:56 PM

That is exact reason for changing the setting. We would need to prepare all models and other system for it from scratch while we never wanted to work on the period. We are still heavily working on Grand Campaign so it would be ponitless to take 1-2 year long detour to work on much less popular DLC campaign in different timeframe.

**WRL** · May 24, 2021, 01:05 AM

Originally Posted by KAM 2150

That is exact reason for changing the setting. We would need to prepare all models and other system for it from scratch while we never wanted to work on the period. We are still heavily working on Grand Campaign so it would be ponitless to take 1-2 year long detour to work on much less popular DLC campaign in different timeframe.

makes sense. Hopefully one day you get the bug though. Great time period, deserves a proper treatment.

**ceasarhater** · August 08, 2021, 11:21 AM

I wasn’t a fan of the Macedonian wars campaign. I played as Pergamon and sent one stack of low quality troops across the Hellespont and it took out every city between there and Macedonia without running into a single army. Was hugely disappointing since Macedon controlled literally half the map and the only resistance offered were a couple of half sized fleets that I easily sunk.

**AdrianTotalWar** · August 09, 2021, 10:57 AM

I used the Macedonian wars to roleplay in the mid of my Grand Campaign. Since the grand campaign you take 2-3 cities and there is Greece conquered, I was pausing my Grand Campaign to have experience the Roman involvement in Greece into more detail. Otherwise, the base Warth of Sparta campaign itself is very tedious. It gets pretty boring when you play Phalanx vs Phalanx against the AI over and over. At least with DEI, the romans come into picture on that map.

**Dago Red** · September 08, 2021, 11:50 AM

Originally Posted by WRL

makes sense. Hopefully one day you get the bug though. Great time period, deserves a proper treatment.

Perhaps one day the DeI team can use some units from Hellenika to properly fill out the time period roster along with the plentiful Greek units already in game. I agree, not interested in Rome at all. Rome, rome, rome, they're in every mod, every time period. This was a bad call IMO but this team is so amazing, inventive, and talented, cut em some slack

What you're looking for in the meantime, is the aforementioned Hellenika. https://www.twcenter.net/forums/foru...1852-Hellenika
I had a good time with it, definitely worth playing to see the period come to life, tho personally missed too much from DeI in the end. The first thing you'll notice is the terrible vanilla unit cards - cool on someone's wall as art, not cool for a total war game.

I remember hearing long ago that Hellenika was cool with some unit sharing (some of their assets might already be in DeI?) so maybe this can happen for us fans of the Peloponnesian war and the many greek cities in general

**NihilNovi_SubSol** · September 09, 2021, 02:49 PM

Originally Posted by WRL

I'm sure they built it up pretty nice, DeI hasn't disapointed yet, love the mod don't get me wrong, I just don't see how Philip V's losing and ever desperate gambles in the so called Macedonian wars, let alone the impostor pretending to be his kid, could possibly compare to the legendary Peloponnesian wars.

As someone who shares your passion for 5th century Hellas, I think the very legendary status you evoke is what actually counts against the vanilla WoS campaign. Its mechanics, rosters and political systems are just so inadequate to portray the historical complexities of the Peloponnesian War that they leave you feeling as though you're demeaning that era's memory rather than celebrating it... Maybe the miracle workers on the DeI team could salvage it, but like they've said, it would be a monumental task given what they'd be starting from.