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Thread: Biden says Armenian mass killing was genocide- What next for Turkish - US Relations?

  1. #1
    Gaius Baltar's Avatar Roma in aeternum
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    Default Biden says Armenian mass killing was genocide- What next for Turkish - US Relations?

    In a somewhat of a surprise move, the grand puppet Biden has declared that the mass killings of Armenians in WWI by the Turks was indeed, a genocide.

    Biden says Armenian mass killing was genocide - https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-56874811

    US President Joe Biden recognizes Armenian genocide - https://www.dw.com/en/us-president-j...ide/a-57324601

    A look at the Armenian genocide - https://www.dw.com/en/a-look-at-the-...ide/a-57299201

    The next steps for US-Turkish relations, and Turkey's role in NATO, appear to be in question.

    Turkish - US relations are complicated. This article by the Brookings Institute outlines some of the current problems;

    1. Turkey’s purchase of the Russian-made S-400 missile defense systems and the ensuing U.S. sanctions on Turkey

    2. Recent actions against Armenia.

    3. Syrian Kurds

    4. Eastern Mediterranean issues

    5. Legal actions related to sanctions.

    Turkey may be looking at its last days as a NATO partner. The crucial role it filled on the southern flank of Europe back in the 50s and 60s is no longer as pressing. Radical forces are at work, and the separation may come sooner than later.


    US-Turkey relations will remain crisis-ridden for a long time to come
    Last edited by Gaius Baltar; April 24, 2021 at 07:02 PM. Reason: Add Information



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  2. #2

    Default Re: Biden says Armenian mass killing was genocide- What next for Turkish - US Relations?

    As I said in the Biden thread:
    Using sufferings of thousands of people as a political tool is an insult to the Armenians themselves first. It is an insult to all those Turks and Kurds that lost their lives similarly or at the hands of Armenians themselves. It's a spineless move by the Biden administration.

    Whats more problematic is that the Biden administration, along with the general political environment in USA, trying its best to make an enemy out of Turkey in the long run. They're mixing AKP administration with Turkey which will be very pricy in the coming years even after AKP is gone.
    It's the lazy path to make Turkey the evil man in the picture because of Erdoğan's administration. The arrogance in their dealing with Turkey shows at every Turkey. In reality, what we're facing is a perception that was made dominant through lobbying and biases rather than facts. All the points of conflicts exists within or at the borders of Turkey. Yet, we are expected to give precedence to USA's needs. USA have been safe harboring the spiritual leader of a criminal organization, Gülen, that threatened Turkey's existence since 1999. USA have been openly allying with a group that is the Syrian branch of an organization they themselves label as a terrorist organization that threatens Turkish security (an organization whose leader was caught leaving an other ally's embassy, Greece, with a Southern Cypriot passport).

    So, you can talk all about how Turkey is not a NATO ally. It's not just a false but it is also wasteful. USA had every opportunity to swat away the Russian influence but they chose to demand Turkish submission rather than to propose partnership.
    Last edited by PointOfViewGun; April 25, 2021 at 10:02 AM. Reason: vice versa
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  3. #3
    Sir Adrian's Avatar the Imperishable
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    Default Re: Biden says Armenian mass killing was genocide- What next for Turkish - US Relations?

    This is fantastic news. I hope more countries follow suit. The Armenian genocide literally set the tone for all the great massacres of the 20th century. Maybe the holocaust and the holodomor wouldn't have happened if Turkey had been made to pay for this sooner.
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  4. #4

    Default Re: Biden says Armenian mass killing was genocide- What next for Turkish - US Relations?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius Baltar View Post
    Turkish - US relations are complicated. This article by the Brookings Institute outlines some of the current problems;

    1. Turkey’s purchase of the Russian-made S-400 missile defense systems and the ensuing U.S. sanctions on Turkey
    This is Wrong and it´s not just about a Russian-made S-400 missile System - It´s funny first USA rejects Turkey inquiry to get a missile defense system from USA and then are pissed off when Turkey makes a purchase from a Country who is willing to do it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius Baltar View Post
    2. Recent actions against Armenia.
    Please clarify this before making such a claim.


    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius Baltar View Post
    3. Syrian Kurds
    Probably these so-called Syrian Americans or even Syrian Armenians? I don´t know what should Turkey do when someone is firing from Syrian Side inside their territory? Persevere?


    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius Baltar View Post
    4. Eastern Mediterranean issues
    Didn´t know that USA also shares a border or something even close to even say what in that matter.


    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius Baltar View Post
    5. Legal actions related to sanctions.
    What? so Turkey is doing something legal and this is not acceptable for USA and they threaten then with sanctions?


    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius Baltar View Post
    Turkey may be looking at its last days as a NATO partner. The crucial role it filled on the southern flank of Europe back in the 50s and 60s is no longer as pressing. Radical forces are at work, and the separation may come sooner than later.
    LoL what? probably Turkey was more a useful NATO partner then some other Members which are filling the ranks. The Libyan-Donbass or even your claims of Nagorno-Karabakh Theatre are substantiating this.

    Overall Unless USA can do anything against Russia and China in their foreign policy, they just punish Turkey to make some points on the Public Opinion. A country can only be ruled by such stupid politicians. USA is just pushing on their own Turkey to Hands of Russia or China, well done Biden Administration (Probably to not getting leaked his support armenian and greek lobbyists and fulfilling their demands).

    But what kind of poorish made OP is this please? Did you need some attention or what? A little more polished then some two Sentences with some twitter post as Source from a known Guy on this Board


    You need something to worse your relationship with Turkey to just piss them off? Then please use the traditional Armenian Issue to complain about them, we can even make a ranking of countries which already used that Joker but overall the Moderation just should move this Thread to this Topic: https://www.twcenter.net/forums/show...blicity-here)!

    Or: https://www.twcenter.net/forums/show...days-in-office

  5. #5
    Sir Adrian's Avatar the Imperishable
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    Default Re: Biden says Armenian mass killing was genocide- What next for Turkish - US Relations?

    I don't think you can blame America for the Turkish people throwing the principles and values of Ataturk in the trash over the past 40 years.
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  6. #6

    Default Re: Biden says Armenian mass killing was genocide- What next for Turkish - US Relations?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Adrian View Post
    I don't think you can blame America for the Turkish people throwing the principles and values of Ataturk in the trash over the past 40 years.
    Be careful in what you trying to say especially about Atatürk. There are many actions from USA over the past 40 years which are even spit on the principles and values of Atatürk.

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    alhoon's Avatar Moderator
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    Default Re: Biden says Armenian mass killing was genocide- What next for Turkish - US Relations?

    Please remember and respect the Mudpit rules. Effort should be taken to make the posts impersonal and use a non-confrontational tone. Address the argument itself, not the poster. Use credible sources when possible to back up your opinion. And remember: We're here to discuss, not fight.
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    AnthoniusII's Avatar XXI ARMORED BRIGADE
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    Default Re: Biden says Armenian mass killing was genocide- What next for Turkish - US Relations?

    Here is the full statement...

    Nottice the underlined name of the city if Constantinople. I remind you that also the former Secretary of Foreign Afairs in Trump's administration also used the same name because his wife is Orthodox Christian.
    Now is the parfect time for Turkey to leave its past and for once embracce its history -with all bad and good times- and find its place in the modern world. A nation that refuses to acnowlege its past is doomed to repeat it. And that past is dark and it would be unfair for the youth of Turkey to carry such a burden.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Biden says Armenian mass killing was genocide- What next for Turkish - US Relations?

    In the White House statement, the name Constantinople is used because its in reference to a historic time when the official name of the city was just that. Greeks using it today out of spite continues to be a pedantic issue.
    The Armenian Issue
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  10. #10

    Default Re: Biden says Armenian mass killing was genocide- What next for Turkish - US Relations?

    Quote Originally Posted by AnthoniusII View Post
    Now is the parfect time for Turkey to leave its past and for once embracce its history -with all bad and good times- and find its place in the modern world.
    Probably of course a modern world under the Mindest of a Greek Fantasy i guess ? But moreover this is funny:

    Quote Originally Posted by AnthoniusII View Post
    A nation that refuses to acnowlege its past is doomed to repeat it. And that past is dark and it would be unfair for the youth of Turkey to carry such a burden.
    So in another Words the youth of todays Turkey is responsible for happenings which occurred 100~150 Years ago? What kind of Mindest is this please? Wouldn´t this not be unfair to carry such a burden which are even not responsible?
    Last edited by Abdülmecid I; April 25, 2021 at 12:29 PM. Reason: Personal.

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    AnthoniusII's Avatar XXI ARMORED BRIGADE
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    Default Re: Biden says Armenian mass killing was genocide- What next for Turkish - US Relations?

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    In the White House statement, the name Constantinople is used because its in reference to a historic time when the official name of the city was just that. Greeks using it today out of spite continues to be a pedantic issue.
    Greeks use it because it belongs to their past too. USA though untill last two years always used the name Instabul (even if that is also a Greek name) .
    That change has its purpose. It allows USA to "punish" Turkey when it fits for US interests for Religius freedoms issues -that Turkey has one of the lowest ranks world wide-.
    In diplomacy every word has its purpose to allow future actions IF NEEDED. I have read the laft turkish party's sugestion that Turkish forces would invade and capture Insirlic air base. What that party leader forgets is that in that base there are 50 nuclear warheads and such an action would be a declaration of war against USA and entire NATO instantly.

    Translation.
    1- Incirlik Base should be taken under full control of the Turkish Armed Forces immediately! US troops sent to their country within 15 days!
    Turkey has come to a dangerus crossroad (in fact in to 2 dangerus crossroads).
    a) To chose if it belongs to NATO and the western world with acceptin ALL western worlds LAWS and principals (let me remind you that Kemal NEVER questioned the Greek airspace 10 miles border neither the status quo of the Aegean islands to his death).
    b) Continue to be a modern state or a Theocratic Republic like IRAN.
    Both crossroads have their own dangers.
    In the first if Turkey desides to leave NATO it economy and its military foirce will have a 50 years drawback even if China will agree to help (or Pakistan).
    If desides to stay in NATO it will bring Turkey infront of Russian tanks in Ucraine and in Armenia and unforthunatly NATO members wont risk a nuclear war to allow Erdogan to stay in power.
    In the 2nd crossroad if Turkey desides to become a modern state must return all Christian Churches and Monasteries to Christians and that would be a blow to Erdogan's prestige.
    If it desides to become a Sunni "IRAN" it will bring Turkey infront of Saudi Arabian, Jordan and UAStates forces plus it will risk its relation with IRAN its self because their common interests stop in Syria!

    Quote Originally Posted by Nebaki View Post
    Probably of course a modern world under the Mindest of a Greek Fantasy i guess ? But moreover this is funny:
    So in another Words the youth of todays Turkey is responsible for happenings which occurred 100~150 Years ago? What kind of Mindest is this please? Wouldn´t this not be unfair to carry such a burden which are even not responsible?
    Have you read what a turkish journalist wrote in 2015 in my post or you read only what you fit in your mind to read?
    Youth is NEVER responsible about its ancestors faults worldwide in the entire human history. But Youth is the one that pays the price of its ancestors (their parents or their grabdparents) desissions in the past.
    If Erdogan ruin Turkey he is just another 70's old man with little to lose. But if Turkey economy coplapses or lose teritory under an Erdogan's desission to go for war, youth will pay the proce. Take as example Greeks.Unlike you Turks Greeks fought in WW2 and they were in teh winners side. But the country was in ruins. Today Greece has 11 million Greeks in lands and 16 million Greeks overseas! Most of them migraded from late 50's to early '70s. If that will happen to Turkey where dio you think Turks will try to find a new future in times that western europe does not want more Muslims in their lands? Nore Australia , neither New Zealand or Canada want that happen to ther lands too... In physicks every action creates a re-action. As the youth of Turkey you must think twice your future as result of any re-action in Erdogan's actions today.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Biden says Armenian mass killing was genocide- What next for Turkish - US Relations?

    Didn´t know who is "Kemal" and what kind of "Greek airspace 10 miles border" that Guy is speaking but i want to point out that there is not a space about 10 miles between borders of greece and Turkey.

    Quote Originally Posted by AnthoniusII View Post
    (let me remind you that Kemal NEVER questioned the Greek airspace 10 miles border neither the status quo of the Aegean islands to his death).
    Some Sidenote:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    1.Incirlik Air Base is not a NATO Air Base
    2.It is a Turkish Air Base and a Turkish Sovereignty
    Last edited by Abdülmecid I; April 25, 2021 at 12:29 PM. Reason: Personal.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Biden says Armenian mass killing was genocide- What next for Turkish - US Relations?

    Quote Originally Posted by AnthoniusII View Post
    Greeks use it because it belongs to their past too. USA though untill last two years always used the name Instabul (even if that is also a Greek name) .
    That change has its purpose. It allows USA to "punish" Turkey when it fits for US interests for Religius freedoms issues -that Turkey has one of the lowest ranks world wide-.
    In diplomacy every word has its purpose to allow future actions IF NEEDED. I have read the laft turkish party's sugestion that Turkish forces would invade and capture Insirlic air base. What that party leader forgets is that in that base there are 50 nuclear warheads and such an action would be a declaration of war against USA and entire NATO instantly.
    USA continues to use the name Istanbul. There is no change. They don't call their Istanbul embassy Constantinople embassy suddenly. That is only part of Greek irredentist dreams.

    Incirlik Base is not sovereign US territory for Turkey to invade. Its a Turkish base with parts of it given to USA personnel. If USA's idea of an ally is to use its bases to supply terror organizations against said ally then, yeah, they should pack up their stuff and leave.
    The Armenian Issue
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  14. #14
    AnthoniusII's Avatar XXI ARMORED BRIGADE
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    Default Re: Biden says Armenian mass killing was genocide- What next for Turkish - US Relations?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nebaki View Post
    Didn´t know who is "Kemal" and what kind of "Greek airspace 10 miles border" that Guy is speaking but i want to point out that there is not a space about 10 miles between borders of greece and Turkey.

    Some Sidenote:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    1.Incirlik Air Base is not a NATO Air Base
    2.It is a Turkish Air Base and a Turkish Sovereignty
    You like it or not KEMAL never questioned the Greek AIR SPACE of ten miles. That first came as an excuse after 1974!
    Punish me for what , hurting your nationalistic dreams of a new Ottoman Empire? Can't you hundle the truth and ask my punishment?
    Some Sidenote:
    Kemal's birth place is 2 miles away from my house. kemal WAS MORE GREEK than many modern Greeks are today you like it or not.
    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    USA continues to use the name Istanbul. There is no change. They don't call their Istanbul embassy Constantinople embassy suddenly. That is only part of Greek irredentist dreams.

    Incirlik Base is not sovereign US territory for Turkey to invade. Its a Turkish base with parts of it given to USA personnel. If USA's idea of an ally is to use its bases to supply terror organizations against said ally then, yeah, they should pack up their stuff and leave.
    You have read the USA text. Its not mine...and it says Constantinople not Instabul. You are right, Incirlik Base is Turkish land. But allow me to know (I served as soldier in a US base for a while) that when a country allows USA to use a base as its own that base has two parts. 1st part is the local one. The 2nd part is 100% US controled and even the local commander needs US commander's permision to enter the US part of the base.
    The problem is not the base its self. Many parts of it have moved to Jordan and Suda naval base but the existance of the 50 nuclear warheads that MAY come to Turkish hands is a nightmare to USA staff and don't be surprised if there will be a full size invasion to secure those weapons.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Biden says Armenian mass killing was genocide- What next for Turkish - US Relations?

    Quote Originally Posted by AnthoniusII View Post
    ... never questioned the Greek AIR SPACE of ten miles.
    How can someone question something which is not existent? There aren´t even space of 19km between greek and Turkish Borders and as far as i know greece is also using the Metric System so maybe stop expressing your weird desillussional fantasy.

  16. #16
    AnthoniusII's Avatar XXI ARMORED BRIGADE
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    Default Re: Biden says Armenian mass killing was genocide- What next for Turkish - US Relations?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nebaki View Post
    How can someone question something which is not existent? There aren´t even space of 19km between greek and Turkish Borders and as far as i know greece is also using the Metric System so maybe stop expressing your weird desillussional fantasy.
    Playing the fool does not make you look right in the eyes of the rest. So say what you want. Without any arguments your words are empty sounds writen in a fictional paper as this site provide us for posting.
    Have a nice day ...Sorry that your dreams for a huge Ottoman Empire create many enemies (see what happened for Bosprus straights that even loyal to Erdogan Admirals wrote him not to dare change the Montre treaty.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Biden says Armenian mass killing was genocide- What next for Turkish - US Relations?

    Quote Originally Posted by AnthoniusII View Post
    You have read the USA text. Its not mine...and it says Constantinople not Instabul. You are right, Incirlik Base is Turkish land. But allow me to know (I served as soldier in a US base for a while) that when a country allows USA to use a base as its own that base has two parts. 1st part is the local one. The 2nd part is 100% US controled and even the local commander needs US commander's permision to enter the US part of the base.
    The problem is not the base its self. Many parts of it have moved to Jordan and Suda naval base but the existance of the 50 nuclear warheads that MAY come to Turkish hands is a nightmare to USA staff and don't be surprised if there will be a full size invasion to secure those weapons.
    USA used the name Constantinople in relation to events from 1915. Istanbul name was officially adopted in 1930. The mental gymnastics you're using are quite pathetic. As I said though, if USA will continue to use Turkish land to help designated terror groups that threaten Turkey USA has no place in Turkey.
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  18. #18
    Vanoi's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Biden says Armenian mass killing was genocide- What next for Turkish - US Relations?

    This probably won't significantly hurt American-Turkish relations. They're already bad and this won't make things significantly worse. This does signal that for at least these next four years American-Turkish relations will be cold at best.
    Last edited by Vanoi; April 25, 2021 at 09:59 AM.

  19. #19
    AnthoniusII's Avatar XXI ARMORED BRIGADE
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    Default Re: Biden says Armenian mass killing was genocide- What next for Turkish - US Relations?

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    USA used the name Constantinople in relation to events from 1915. Istanbul name was officially adopted in 1930. The mental gymnastics you're using are quite pathetic. As I said though, if USA will continue to use Turkish land to help designated terror groups that threaten Turkey USA has no place in Turkey.
    True. But FORCING US troops with an armed invasion in the US part of the base will be an act of war INSTANDLY.
    BTW defone terror groups. Lets supose that in 1921 Greeks did conquered Angara and forced Kemal to have a Turkish state 1/3 from what is now. If Turks would create querilla troops to throw away Greeks would they be terrorists or freedom fighters?

  20. #20

    Default Re: Biden says Armenian mass killing was genocide- What next for Turkish - US Relations?

    As you guys are trying to teach a lesson in "humanity" to Turkey, a crowd in Yerevan, Armenia Los Angeles is cheering as they symbolically hang a figure draped in Azerbaijani flag.


    Quote Originally Posted by AnthoniusII View Post
    True. But FORCING US troops with an armed invasion in the US part of the base will be an act of war INSTANDLY.
    BTW defone terror groups. Lets supose that in 1921 Greeks did conquered Angara and forced Kemal to have a Turkish state 1/3 from what is now. If Turks would create querilla troops to throw away Greeks would they be terrorists or freedom fighters?
    PKK, a group that targeted civilian targets many times, is designated as a terror group both by EU and USA. Greece, of course, declined to designate PKK as a terror group, and PKK's leader got caught leaving a Greek embassy. YPG in Syria, which USA openly supports and supplies, is designated as PKK's Syrian branch by the US intelligence reports and many other official communications. That's the group we're talking about.

    Other examples? ASALA, the Armenian terror organization that bombed a Turkish airlines flight waiting room and targeted many different Turkish diplomats throughout Europe. Participants in that bombing in Orly airport were welcomed as heroes in Armenia.

    EOKA, the Greek Cypriot terror organization that often targeted civilians of Turkish and British ethnicity. Recently, Greek Cypriot government chose to commemorate them with a stamp in their honor.
    Last edited by PointOfViewGun; April 25, 2021 at 10:29 AM.
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