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Thread: Infant Male Circumcision is Genital Mutilation without Consent

  1. #141
    basics's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Infant Male Circumcision is Genital Mutilation without Consent

    Axalon,

    The biggest problem concerning man is that man thinks this story is all about him. It's not. It's all about a story that God created for His own good pleasure in which man plays his part. The thing is that it is not fiction because all creation is living throughout as actors do on a stage, the world being our stage. The core to the story is about knowing God and Him knowing us by all His promises and His appearing amongst us. There is not one breathing second in all creation that God is not in control of and will not see out until His story is completed.

    Now concerning the circumcision of Abraham's family and therefore all Jewish males it was ordained as a sign that those males were under the Covenant made with Abraham. Apart from Abraham's immediate family he had many servants who were to be included in this Covenant so if as suggested that some of them may well have already been circumcised why would they have to be cut again? The thing is though that circumcision did not save for eternal life rather covered one for their earthly existence as Jews. The cutting of the flesh was a sign of the coming Messias carried in Oracle by this people which came to pass by the birth, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

  2. #142
    Axalon's Avatar She-Hulk wills it!
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    Default Re: Infant Male Circumcision is Genital Mutilation without Consent

    Even if circumcision supposedly was “ordained” by the divine - does not make it any less moronic – covenant or not. Besides, what sort of god makes a pact with humans? What sort of god needs to do such a thing? That is the sort of thing a demon would do… Any deity worth its salt would not bother with the puny details of mortals to begin with, nor crave their insignificant blood and flesh somehow, or wander amongst them for that matter. Humans are incredibly stupid, unreliable and petty creatures – why would any deity ever want to rely on them for?!? It’s simply stupid to no end, to do so - especially so for any (supposedly) important stuff. Only an utter idiot of a god would fail to realize that… I am a mortal, and even I can figure out as much…

    In short, it does not add up... It’s like maintaining that 1+1=63, because this ‘ol popular myth says so… Give me a break…

    - A

  3. #143

    Default Re: Infant Male Circumcision is Genital Mutilation without Consent

    A god can make cooking spaghetti every day mandatory if it wants to. Attributing human criteria to what a god would or wouldn't do is just silly. It's also ironic that such an argument was made from a Christian perspective. A god is a god. Period.
    The Armenian Issue
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  4. #144
    basics's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Infant Male Circumcision is Genital Mutilation without Consent

    Look it's a ritual that the Jewish males had to go through and for most have done from Abraham on. It seems to us who are not obliged something that is not necessary yet to the religious Jew it is. With today's expertise in medication there shouldn't be any problem. That said how many on these threads have any problem with breast implants, bum fillings, botox, drug abuse and any other enhancements that are common day practice? For the Jewish male it is a once only happening.

  5. #145

    Default Re: Infant Male Circumcision is Genital Mutilation without Consent

    I have absoutely no problem with body modifications if they're done by CONSENTING ADULTS. Can you understand why that part is so important?
    Optio, Legio I Latina

  6. #146
    basics's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Infant Male Circumcision is Genital Mutilation without Consent

    Quote Originally Posted by Gromovnik View Post
    I have absoutely no problem with body modifications if they're done by CONSENTING ADULTS. Can you understand why that part is so important?
    Gromovnik,

    Can you not understand that God our Creator made that command to the Jews?

  7. #147

    Default Re: Infant Male Circumcision is Genital Mutilation without Consent

    Quote Originally Posted by Gromovnik View Post
    I have absoutely no problem with body modifications if they're done by CONSENTING ADULTS. Can you understand why that part is so important?
    Children are vaccinated without their consent. Therefore, you oppose vaccination of children for measles until they are adults by your logic.

    So all the parents who refuse to get their kids vaccinated are morally right? We should wait until the children are consenting adults before vaccinating them for polio, measles, etc.

  8. #148
    basics's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Infant Male Circumcision is Genital Mutilation without Consent

    The above is quite true in that I was never asked if I wanted to be vaccinated for my mum just took along to the clinic to get it done.

  9. #149

    Default Re: Infant Male Circumcision is Genital Mutilation without Consent

    Quote Originally Posted by basics View Post
    Gromovnik,

    Can you not understand that God our Creator made that command to the Jews?
    I can understand your fantasies, I just don't believe they are true. You're talking about ramblings of some iron age shepherds.
    Optio, Legio I Latina

  10. #150

    Default Re: Infant Male Circumcision is Genital Mutilation without Consent

    Quote Originally Posted by Common Soldier View Post
    Children are vaccinated without their consent. Therefore, you oppose vaccination of children for measles until they are adults by your logic.

    So all the parents who refuse to get their kids vaccinated are morally right? We should wait until the children are consenting adults before vaccinating them for polio, measles, etc.
    I don't oppose vaccinating children, because I'm not pro child death. Mutilating them to appease a horrible cult, on the other hand...
    Optio, Legio I Latina

  11. #151

    Default Re: Infant Male Circumcision is Genital Mutilation without Consent

    Quote Originally Posted by Gromovnik View Post
    I don't oppose vaccinating children, because I'm not pro child death. Mutilating them to appease a horrible cult, on the other hand...
    That still shows that the issue is not one of consent but of what you think is OK and not.
    The Armenian Issue
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    "We're nice mainly because we're rich and comfortable."

  12. #152
    basics's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Infant Male Circumcision is Genital Mutilation without Consent

    Quote Originally Posted by Gromovnik View Post
    I don't oppose vaccinating children, because I'm not pro child death. Mutilating them to appease a horrible cult, on the other hand...
    Gromovnik,

    And what horrible cult would you be talking about?

  13. #153

    Default Re: Infant Male Circumcision is Genital Mutilation without Consent

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    That still shows that the issue is not one of consent but of what you think is OK and not.
    Yes, I support vaccinating children against deadly diseases.
    Optio, Legio I Latina

  14. #154
    basics's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Infant Male Circumcision is Genital Mutilation without Consent

    Gromovnik,

    But what horrible cult are you talking about?

  15. #155

    Default Re: Infant Male Circumcision is Genital Mutilation without Consent

    Quote Originally Posted by Gromovnik View Post
    Yes, I support vaccinating children against deadly diseases.
    You could be wanting to do it for world peace. That wouldn't change what you said earlier. It's not a matter of consent as you demonstrated so well.
    The Armenian Issue
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    "We're nice mainly because we're rich and comfortable."

  16. #156
    Tribunus
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    Default Re: Infant Male Circumcision is Genital Mutilation without Consent

    Quote Originally Posted by Gromovnik View Post
    Yes, I support vaccinating children against deadly diseases.
    I have a permanent disfiguring (oh my beauty! ruined!) mark on my arm from childhood vaccination. Have I been mutilated?

    Also our friend basics asked a pertinent question, which horrible cult?
    Jatte lambastes Calico Rat

  17. #157
    basics's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Infant Male Circumcision is Genital Mutilation without Consent

    Well, the thing is that for all the countries that do this ritual it hasn't appeared to have affected their reproduction capabilities whichever that horrible cult may be.

  18. #158
    Mithradates's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Infant Male Circumcision is Genital Mutilation without Consent

    Quote Originally Posted by Common Soldier View Post
    Children are vaccinated without their consent. Therefore, you oppose vaccination of children for measles until they are adults by your logic.

    So all the parents who refuse to get their kids vaccinated are morally right? We should wait until the children are consenting adults before vaccinating them for polio, measles, etc.
    I think its apples and oranges.
    tradition:
    Circumcision is a religious/cultural body modification which offers no significant medical benefits, its no different than traditional african scarification, its "optional", majority of people believes that its not needed, so consent is kind of an issue here.

    science:
    Vaccination is not a body modification. Vaccination is a highly beneficial medical procedure to ensure the health of the child, virtually everybody agrees that its needed, it can not wait, and the child objectively benefits from it, backed by science. Not really a consent issue.

  19. #159

    Default Re: Infant Male Circumcision is Genital Mutilation without Consent

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    I have a permanent disfiguring (oh my beauty! ruined!) mark on my arm from childhood vaccination. Have I been mutilated?

    Also our friend basics asked a pertinent question, which horrible cult?
    The difference is necessity. Medical procedures may leave marks and scars, but alternative is health problems or even something worse.
    That doesn't apply to cosmetic body modifications, circumcision being one of those.

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