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Thread: Infant Male Circumcision is Genital Mutilation without Consent

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    Default Infant Male Circumcision is Genital Mutilation without Consent

    Men should have the right to choose circumcision, not have the choice forced upon them. Infant circumcision without consent or immediate medical justification is an unjustified violation of basic human rights, that shares more in common with ancient coming-of-age rituals than responsible medical practice.

    https://www.theguardian.com/science/...dern%20society.


    I understand the arguments for circumcision. Less chances of penile cancer and infections specifically of the urinary tract. Less need for daily penis related hygiene practices. Last longer in the boudoir. Prettier.

    Pretending it is anything but genital mutilation without consent seems a coping rationalization. It is a barbaric practice from the times before Christianity brought enlightenment to humankind.

    Why would western countries allow it to continue? Is a religious minority so powerful they run the western world I wonder? Maybe the whole world.



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    Default Re: Infant Male Circumcision is Genital Mutilation without Consent

    So is female one. Apart for life threatening reasons, there is none.

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    Default Re: Infant Male Circumcision is Genital Mutilation without Consent

    Considering that they still have father christmas and the easter bunny it may take a while longer before pagan rituals are abandoned.




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    Default Re: Infant Male Circumcision is Genital Mutilation without Consent

    The easter bunny always gets me. Sweets on zombie day. Different day Western/Eastern each year. Riddled with pagan rituals everywhere it is celebrated and not the same ones. I guess Spring is that cool. Even Jesus can’t change it.

    Back to the topic, cutting a baby’s penis for dubious reasons sounds like a sentence you should never say, yet circumcised is definitely better and who wants to do it as an adult. Seems wrong too. Paradox.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Infant Male Circumcision is Genital Mutilation without Consent

    Yeah, it is mutilation. And if done on babies, it is without consent.
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    Default Re: Infant Male Circumcision is Genital Mutilation without Consent

    OP is technically correct, the best kind of correct. Its an extremely vexed issue with respectable veiwpoints, venerable traditions, sensible and heartfelt sentiments, and trojan trolls on all sides.

    I was circumcised and don't regret it. Maybe I have internalised my "abuse" but I don't feel like I was abused. My son ain't and I don't regret it. I initially suggested it but Mrs Cyclops said no, so we compromised and did exactly what she wanted, but it was a big meh really.

    Best argument for is it prolongs the act of love. Not sure anything can make the old pork sword prettier, its a doer not a looker. The cancer argument is a furphy, we can eliminate breast cancer with mandatory mastectomies. I suspect the "cleaning argument" originates in hysterical anti- thinking (might lead to dancing).

    Here in Oz we've practically extirpated traditional Indigenous Australian practices around (m+f) circumcision (do not google anything remotely related as it will give you nightmares) because brown man bad. The same arguments against Jewish and Muslim traditions are ignored, except for certain extreme African Muslim practices (infibulation and clitoridectomy) so we're pretty racist about how we apply our ethics. Basically if its a "civilised" tradition (eg not too brown) it gets a pass.
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  7. #7

    Default Re: Infant Male Circumcision is Genital Mutilation without Consent

    While I recognize the difficult interactions of religion, tradition, and cultures, I must say that I am a staunch supporter of the idea that mutilating the genitalia of someone who is incapable of giving consent is an act of genital mutilation without consent.

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    Default Re: Infant Male Circumcision is Genital Mutilation without Consent

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    OP is technically correct, the best kind of correct. Its an extremely vexed issue with respectable veiwpoints, venerable traditions, sensible and heartfelt sentiments, and trojan trolls on all sides.

    I was circumcised and don't regret it. Maybe I have internalised my "abuse" but I don't feel like I was abused. My son ain't and I don't regret it. I initially suggested it but Mrs Cyclops said no, so we compromised and did exactly what she wanted, but it was a big meh really.
    Technically my actions are always correct, whether others see deep enough to glean my motivations is also a meh. An aside, my spouse and me had a similar conversation as American men are almost universally circumcised, and the compromise was also do what she wants, just went the other way than your anecdote.

    The disconnect between white good but brown bad on this and many issues irks me in a systemic way. As does the lack of consent on a baby for an unnecessary procedure. The prettier argument is actually held up. Explaining it with my way of speaking could very well end bad for me. Suffice to say prettier is a cultural determination. Blond green eyed white women are typically rated as prettier than other women throughout the world. Why is a question worth exploring.
    Last edited by enoch; April 16, 2021 at 10:18 AM. Reason: Better

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    Default Re: Infant Male Circumcision is Genital Mutilation without Consent

    Quote Originally Posted by Septentrionalis View Post
    While I recognize the difficult interactions of religion, tradition, and cultures, I must say that I am a staunch supporter of the idea that mutilating the genitalia of someone who is incapable of giving consent is an act of genital mutilation without consent.
    Is the consent the punctum saliens here, though? We are usually fine with parents taking decisions about medical (and other) procedures on behalf of their underage children, and not all of them based on a direct medical indication of imminent danger to be averted (consider orthodontic measures, e.g.). Putting aside that the general gut feeling treats genitalia as a more delicate subject (which I doubt holds up against a non-emotional assessment), I think it boils down to the question whether the long-term gains in general health justify such a preemptive operation (which, to begin with, pretty easily rules out the more extreme practices like clitoridectomy).
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    Default Re: Infant Male Circumcision is Genital Mutilation without Consent

    Why should parents be allowed to make decision about their kids with regards to many different subject but not about circumcision?
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    Default Re: Infant Male Circumcision is Genital Mutilation without Consent

    And parenting is humans greatest advantage. A means of production that produces infinite variety in a way we dream AI might someday.

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    Default Re: Infant Male Circumcision is Genital Mutilation without Consent

    Through the process of manufacturing offspring we equip the universe with the very tools it requires to supplant us.
    I find it surprising that our pre-reflective/pre-emptive vengeance is limited to acts as minor as circumcision.
    The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are so certain of themselves, but wiser people are full of doubts.
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    Default Re: Infant Male Circumcision is Genital Mutilation without Consent

    As theory this seems right but in practice the old are making slaves not replacements these days.

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    Default Re: Infant Male Circumcision is Genital Mutilation without Consent

    Are you familiar with the Hegelian Master-Slave Dialectic?
    The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are so certain of themselves, but wiser people are full of doubts.
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    Default Re: Infant Male Circumcision is Genital Mutilation without Consent

    I don't think there can be non-hierarchical discourse in the sense of Habermas between parents and children.
    "Non i titoli illustrano gli uomini, ma gli uomini i titoli." - Niccolo Machiavelli, Discorsi
    "Du musst die Sterne und den Mond enthaupten, und am besten auch den Zar. Die Gestirne werden sich behaupten, aber wahrscheinlich nicht der Zar." - Einstürzende Neubauten, Weil, Weil, Weil

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    Default Re: Infant Male Circumcision is Genital Mutilation without Consent

    Quote Originally Posted by Himster View Post
    Are you familiar with the Hegelian Master-Slave Dialectic?
    Are you familiar with 50 Shades of Grey?
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    Default Re: Infant Male Circumcision is Genital Mutilation without Consent

    Hard to describe circumcision as mutilation when it doesn't negatively impact either the function or the appearance of the penis.
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    Default Re: Infant Male Circumcision is Genital Mutilation without Consent

    Quote Originally Posted by Prodromos View Post
    Hard to describe circumcision as mutilation when it doesn't negatively impact either the function or the appearance of the penis.
    Neither does cutting off a pinky toe.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Infant Male Circumcision is Genital Mutilation without Consent

    Quote Originally Posted by enoch View Post
    Neither does cutting off a pinky toe.
    Cutting off a pinky toe negatively impacts both the function and the appearance of the foot.
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    Default Re: Infant Male Circumcision is Genital Mutilation without Consent

    Quote Originally Posted by Prodromos View Post
    Cutting off a pinky toe negatively impacts both the function and the appearance of the foot.
    Does it?
    Cutting off the foreskin impacts the appearance of the penis. Where is Ferrets when we need him?

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