Islam is the heir to Abraham

[basics]

enoch,

The god of Islam is not the God of the Bible so let's get that out of the way. Way back in the garden it is written that Adam walked and talked with God so Who exactly was he doing the walking and talking with? The Father is a Spirit so blinding that no man might look on Him and live so Who was this Person that Adam talked with? Does the same Person Who wrestled with Jacob, talked with Abraham and appeared to Paul ring a bell? The One Who provided the Light for the world until the sun, moon and stars were made and Whose Light will shine on the New creation when this one is dissolved as John saw? Why Islam does not even believe on original sin relying on works as its way of salvation so how does it reach that conclusion? Why would God need to show mercy if there was not a separation between man and Himself? That mercy came in the Form of a Saviour Who died and rose again after shedding His blood for certain sinners, known to the world as Jesus Christ, on Whom Islam has no answer but to deny that, why? Because its god is not God, Father, Son and Holy Ghost.

[enoch]

enoch,

The god of Islam is not the God of the Bible so let's get that out of the way. Way back in the garden it is written that Adam walked and talked with God so Who exactly was he doing the walking and talking with? The Father is a Spirit so blinding that no man might look on Him and live so Who was this Person that Adam talked with? Does the same Person Who wrestled with Jacob, talked with Abraham and appeared to Paul ring a bell? The One Who provided the Light for the world until the sun, moon and stars were made and Whose Light will shine on the New creation when this one is dissolved as John saw? Why Islam does not even believe on original sin relying on works as its way of salvation so how does it reach that conclusion? Why would God need to show mercy if there was not a separation between man and Himself? That mercy came in the Form of a Saviour Who died and rose again after shedding His blood for certain sinners, known to the world as Jesus Christ, on Whom Islam has no answer but to deny that, why? Because its god is not God, Father, Son and Holy Ghost.

Adam did not walk with God in the bibble. Plus you left Eve out of that misinterpretation.

Enoch, Noah, and Levi are the only ones the Bible states walked with god. Whether it’s 2006 when I used to run rampant on your heresies or 15 years later when I barely remember my theology; I know the Bible so much better than you do. Plus I have read it.

[basics]

enoch,

Before Eve was even created out of Adam tell me how it was that Adam knew what to do with naming the animals and other creatures if God had not talked with him about these things? The natural logic is that Adam and God were in contact. That contact was enough for God to see that Adam needed help and so Eve was created out of Adam by Whom? It is written that God put Adam into a deep sleep and removed one of his ribs upon which He created Eve. So, what does your Bible say about that? As for walking with God did Abraham not walk with God? Did Jacob not wrestle with God? If I'm right you had to google even to get that wrong. So much for your greater knowledge of the Bible.

[conon394]

The natural logic is that Adam and God were in contact.

Is it based on what? If we are going on assumption here than why not as equally natural that god created Adam whit the full capacity of languages and logical reasoning and the desire to name things? Are you implying god to hang around with everything to tell all the plants and animals and what what do as well. Did he/it/she forget to make females of everything? A massive duh I need to world 2.0 fast damn me its right in my notes make a male and female if I am going with that whole sex propagation approach.

[basics]

conon394,

I assume you have children and if so what's the first things you do with them? You talk to them even though at that point they cannot talk back that is until you teach them how to talk. Adam being created as a fully formed man understood what God asked of him and since we learn that later from John Jesus his Creator spoke Aramaic Adam would not only understand that language but speak it himself. All this was preordained in the heavens before the worlds were made so no, God didn't hang around waiting and hoping that His plan might work out.

[enoch]

conon394,

I assume you have children and if so what's the first things you do with them? You talk to them even though at that point they cannot talk back that is until you teach them how to talk. Adam being created as a fully formed man understood what God asked of him and since we learn that later from John Jesus his Creator spoke Aramaic Adam would not only understand that language but speak it himself. All this was preordained in the heavens before the worlds were made so no, God didn't hang around waiting and hoping that His plan might work out.

God’s tongue is Aramaic. As is his word. No Bible claiming to be gospel is unless it was written in Aramaic. 100% agree. Anyone inspired by God would understand Aramaic as basics’ quotes prove. Wait. Is this a circle? Meh

[basics]

enoch,

Is it possible that the Bible Jesus quoted from was by then Hebrew rather than Aramaic? We know that the Old Covenant was rewritten after the captivity so it may well have been translated to Hebrew whereupon our versions are translations of that. Our translations of the New Covenant stem from the Greek yet they were translations also from the Hebrew. How do I come to that conclusion? Because no Jew would speak Greek in the synagogue or in the original churches such as at Jerusalem. As Paul began his church building it was to the Jew first that he went and so these converts too would speak Hebrew that is until the Gentile converts became more numerous in them that Greek had to be employed, and that's where the Greek translation began. Of all the world's Bibles in whatever language written the Gospel message is exactly the same. " Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved." This is not what Islam preaches and so it is not an heir to Abraham's belief.

[Gromovnik]

The Gospels were originally written in Greek.

[enoch]

enoch,

Before Eve was even created out of Adam tell me how it was that Adam knew what to do with naming the animals and other creatures if God had not talked with him about these things? The natural logic is that Adam and God were in contact. That contact was enough for God to see that Adam needed help and so Eve was created out of Adam by Whom? It is written that God put Adam into a deep sleep and removed one of his ribs upon which He created Eve. So, what does your Bible say about that? As for walking with God did Abraham not walk with God? Did Jacob not wrestle with God? If I'm right you had to google even to get that wrong. So much for your greater knowledge of the Bible.

Show me the bibble verse where it says Adam walked with
God. Since 3 other people are stated as walking with god it stands to reason that the Logos only means walked with God where it states it.

Also, the natural logic is this is silly but saddest of all, I am using scripture while you are making up stuff that isn’t in the bibble. How far we both have fallen.

[Axalon]

God’s tongue is Aramaic. As is his word. No Bible claiming to be gospel is unless it was written in Aramaic. 100% agree. Anyone inspired by God would understand Aramaic as basics’ quotes prove. Wait. Is this a circle? Meh

Yup and this circle-thing-argument is of course totally not so for the self-styled prophet Mohammed as…. According to Islamic tradition...

He said that God said that all he said was totally true because God said so according to Mohammed - and we know all this because of the Koran which is all based upon the supposed super ultra reliable Mohammeds personal word for it guarantee. Not to mention that all this was supposedly all written down in advance before it happened by God. Again, we know all this - as Mohammed said so… Furthermore, as Mohammed was analphabetic, all this circular moronity supposedly proves the mighty power of God as Mohammed supposedly wrote all things down anyways – despite his of inability to both write and read, and despite the fact that it had already been written down by God anyways prior to all this – making Mohammed writing it down too utterly redundant in the first place. For all intents and purposes, God should just hand over a physical copy of his Koran to Mohammed and all that fuss could have been avoided in the first place. After all, it is supposed to be the same thing (Koran) anyways…

Now, the only one who knew and witnessed all this spectacular stuff was of course Mohammed - as God in its infinite wisdom decided to solely rely upon Mohammed's indestructible and ever successful personal word for it guarantee - supposedly. Not to mention that it was actually written down (yet again) some 200-300 years AFTER Mohammed had died - and this by a horde other folks - as cherry on top. All this, because God thought this particular circumstance would be an oh so great idea – supposedly… Yup.

It all has too be true because first Mohammed, via God and thru the Koran said so which is all based upon the insights that Mohammed alone witnessed - as conveyed by God for him exclusively – according to the Koran. Totally not any circle argument there. Nope, not in any way, shape or form – Mohammed said so, God did too (via Mohammed), and so did the Koran (via God thru Mohammed). No circular argument here at all…

- A

[Axalon]

Personally, I think that the only folks that will ever take the notion (the topic/contention of this thread) seriously are either Muslims (already) or ambitious PC-nuts (who are religious somehow). If the (devout) Jews and Christians ever thought that there was merit to such an idea - the world would have known all about it by now - some 1400 years after Mohammed’s personal cult was set up.

What I do know for sure is that I am a blatant kafir - and I prefer it just like that. I’m sure that "momma earth" and "father sun" approves of my choice btw, or any other deities that might be out there, for that matter. We can at least safely assume that all these deities won’t be calling themselves “God” anytime soon, nor will they ever intentionally send a human to present their case/claim as gods - to humans. That’s just too unreliable and counterproductive, and every self-respecting deity probably knows that already...

- A

[Gromovnik]

They do approve. Old gods are chill about it, don't worry. Anyway, Basics, what language did Adam spoke?

[basics]

They do approve. Old gods are chill about it, don't worry. Anyway, Basics, what language did Adam spoke?

Adam would have spoken Aramaic to understand what God, Jesus, was telling him. That also would have been the language until God separated the peoples because of the tower of Babel incident. This diaspora brought about new languages and dialects which we enjoy today.

[Gromovnik]

Adam would have spoken Aramaic to understand what God, Jesus, was telling him. That also would have been the language until God separated the peoples because of the tower of Babel incident. This diaspora brought about new languages and dialects which we enjoy today.

Despite the fact that there is no proof that the language existed before roughly year 1000 BCE?

[conon394]

Adam would have spoken Aramaic to understand what God, Jesus, was telling him

He would why exactly?

[Septentrionalis]

Adam would have spoken Aramaic to understand what God, Jesus, was telling him. That also would have been the language until God separated the peoples because of the tower of Babel incident. This diaspora brought about new languages and dialects which we enjoy today.

Despite the fact that there is no proof that the language existed before roughly year 1000 BCE?

The scientific consensus is and has been for a long time that languages do not just appear and languages do not have an age that can be determined. Languages are very much like biological organisms in the sense that they evolve and branch out. English, Dutch, and German are considered separate languages today, but there was a time when they were highly diverging dialects of the same language. And even before that, they were one and the same.

Of course language forms of any reasonably recent time can be roughly dated from literary sources and ultimately using a so-called comparative-historical method, but once we go back far enough in time, it becomes impossible to tell whether certain similarities are because of a genetic relationship in between languages or just by coincidence. We know that is not a coincidence that the English "name", Latin "nomen", and Greek "onoma" are similar. That is because all of those languages descend from a common ancestor thousands of years ago. What we do not know, however, is whether Finnish "nimi" and Japanese "namae" of identical meaning are related to each other or to Greek or Latin. It could be that they just happen to be similar. There aren't that many ways that one can assign short series of speech sounds to a specific meaning.

So if you hear a claim that this or that language is the oldest in Europe, for instance, you are dealing with absolute nonsense. It is true, however, that some languages have evolved slower than others and that there are times when a certain language has evolved very rapidly.

[basics]

Despite the fact that there is no proof that the language existed before roughly year 1000 BCE?

Gromovnik,

Well, if you accept that Jesus Christ is our Creator and when on the planet He spoke Aramaic is it not surprising to assume that He spoke it when He created and taught Adam?

[Gromovnik]

Gromovnik,

Well, if you accept that Jesus Christ is our Creator and when on the planet He spoke Aramaic is it not surprising to assume that He spoke it when He created and taught Adam?

This makes no sense even within the christian mythology. If Jesus is all-powerful, he could've used any language. He could've even created a new language just to communicate with Adam. He could've used non-verbal communication. It's absolutely irrelevant. Saying that he HAD to use Aramaic for some reason is admitting that jesus is not omnipotent.

[basics]

Gromovnik,

All the people spoke one language until the tower of Babel event and so that language would have been the language that Christ Jesus used when here on earth, why? Because until His sojourn here on earth His people used Aramaic and Hebrew, closely linked, as their languages, the modern day Jews still doing the same. Now as for creating a new language, where is the sense in that? The ones chosen to carry the oracles of God to this very day still use that same language.

[Gromovnik]

The ones chosen to carry the oracles of God to this very day still use that same language.

Which ones, and what language? Because Aramaic still exists, but you probably think its speakers will be tortured by Jesus for countless eons.