Old Georgian Units Submod for EB II 2.35A

[Khevsur]

Colchis( Kingdom Of Egrisi) and Iberia (Kingdom Of Kartli ) - information and pictures


Colchis-Land of the Golden Fleece






https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colchian_culture

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colchis

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argona..._Golden_Fleece
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Fleece



Old Georgian Symbol - Borjgali . Georgian Borjgali is With seven beams .




Kingdom of Iberia c. 302 BC















Colchian Warriors - V-III c BC










Iberian Warriors - V-III c BC
























































this is Iberian plate helmet From the side view. sorry, image is bad quality.
























Maps

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Georgian tribes in 20'th - 10'th century BC.




Early Georgian Kingdoms: Colchis, Diaeuhi and Hurrian-Georgian (Chaldian) Kingdom Of Urartu












Georgian (Kartvelian ) Tribes and other Caucasian Tribes , After Fall Of Hurrian-Georgian ( Chaldian) Kingdom - Urartu.
Georgian tribes were : Chalybes ,Chaldaei, Tibareni, Mosynoeci, Colchi, Macrones ,Saspires, Taochi, Gogari, Phasiani, Moschi, Lazi, Iberi, Coraxi, Abasgi, Heniochi.








270 BC - Europe and Georgian Kingdoms




Kingdom of Iberia, III c. BC





Gneus Pompeus's Campaigns in Georgia (Colchis and Iberia) 66 - 63 BC

Georgian archeology

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Colch-Iberian Types and Cavalry - From Georgian Archeology

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Colch-Iberian warriors on Colchian bronze battle belt .11th-7th BC century.


round shield


Iberian Man VI-IV c BC


Iberian man - 7 th century BC











Colchian Man VI-IV c BC


colchian cavalry 8th-7th BC century

Colchian Battle bronze - leather Belt. 11th BC-7th BC century.




















Iberian and Cochian Cavalry IV-III c BC





Kutaisi fountain- Larger Copy



Iberian Battle Chariot VI-IV c BC









Colchian Woman IV-III BC

Weapons - Archaeological Materials (Only Period Of Game)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Colchian Warrior -Weapons



Spears



III century BC - 33,37 cm



III century BC- 34cm





III century BC -33, 37cm



III,II century BC- 25,34 cm



III,II century BC - 41,46 cm



III,II century BC - 25,27 cm





III,II century BC-25 cm



III,II century BC -34 cm



III,II century BC -29 cm


Javelins





IV,III century BC - 21,27 cm


Swords





IV,III century BC - 50 to 80 cm





VI,I century BC - 55 to 75 cm







dagger

I century BC- 29 cm


Axes







III,II century BC



IV,II century BC





Iberian Warrior - Weapons

Spears


I century BC , I century AD - 31 cm

II century BC-20cm

III century BC-20cm

IV-III century BC-48cm

IV-III century BC - 40cm

IV-III century BC -35 cm

IV-III century BC - 20cm

IV-III century BC - 30 cm

IV-III century BC - 45,48 cm



IV-III century BC -25 to 26 cm



IV-III century BC -35 cm


javelins

IV-III century BC - 13cm


IV-III century BC- 15,17 cm

IV-III century BC- 25cm

Axes




IV-III century BC

My Art

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Colch-Iberian Warrior



Colch- Iberian warrior , Svan Warrior



Colchian Warrior

Ancient Georgian alphabet, culture and Units names

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Old Georgian Alphabet and writhing

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King Pharnavaz I - Asomtavruli alphabet- 3 th century BC

Jumati-Colchian writing 6th c BC-2th c BC


Grakliani writhing 11th -10th c BC


Khevsureti writhing -in caucasus mountains












Nekresi writhing 1th c AD -3th c AD

Units Native Names

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Iberians Spearmens - Shubosanni Kartlisani
Iberians Cavalry- Mkhedarni Kartlisani
Iberians Warriors - Meomarni Kartlisani

Colchians Spearmens - Egrisali Borzalamephi
Colchians Skrimshers - Egrisali Khesh-borzalamephi
Colchian Warrior- Egrisali Malimarephi

Chaldian Spearmens - Chani Borzalamephi
Chaldian Warrior - Chani Malimorephi

Svan Warriors - Mushvan Meshialaa
Svan Archers - Mushvan Mtskhemdamalaa

............................................

Iberia-Kartli. Iberians -Kartlelni ,
Kingdom of Iberia - Kartlis Samepho

Colchis - Egrisi . Colchians - Egrephi
Kingdom of Colchis - Egrisish Omaphe

Chaldia, Chalibea - Chanephi .
Chaldians , Chalibeans - Chanephi

It's possible to create such units

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

1.Iberian shock Cavalry - Mkhedarni Kartlisani
2.Iberian Skrimshers Cavalry- Mkhedarni Satkhedosanni
3.Iberian Battle Chariots - Etlni Sabrdzoloni
4.Iberian Spearmens - Shubosanni Kartlisani
5.Iberian Swordsmens - Makhvilosanni Kartlisani
6.Iberian Skrimshers / Axeman - Satkhedosanni/Tsulosanni Kartlisani
7.Iberian Archers - Mshvilosanni Kartlisani

8.Colchian Skrimshers / Axemans -Egrisali Khesh Bordzalamephi
9.Colchian Swordsmens - Egrisali Malimorephi
10.Colchian Hoplites - Egrisali Bordzalamephi
11.Colchian Archers - Egrisali Mesthaganeephi
12. Colchian Slingers - Egrisali Meshqurdumephi

13.Chaldian phalanx - Chani Borzalamephi
14.Chaldian Skrimshers / Swordsmens - Chani Khesh-borzalamephi

15. Svan Hunters Archer - Mushvan Mtskhedamalaa

Georgian Folk Music :

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5jxHt-f6jY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rcDZhzxl_8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XcjldoQaMA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faYO_worE_A

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SA27VIGehI


Georgian song in Space - Chakrulo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDdWFewtfzY


svan Folk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-zKgpz1m0o

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiCWj3EDks8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0sM5mMW_T4Y

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAtgawjkrqM


Georgian Battle Music

https://soundcloud.com/binuli-1/pher...tHOfEQm7aX-aD0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gE3UaeAlfP4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBuqLackegA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtP-FS-sz1A

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlKvUytZ_Wg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QrQ7nPsjkE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rx7kQV59F2Q

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0scKFHrTd4


Georgian song- belongs to a Urartian deity "Arale"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExkXJcx7RZ4

........................

[Vladyvid]

You want the mod team to cooperate but youre antogonizing them with every next post you make. What is that meant to achieve? Do you think that you can force them to do what you think is right? If you and the mod team really cant come to any type of compromise or understanding, whats the point? I get it that you want those units to be included but like what, by any means necessary? Thats not how things work.

[Khevsur]

You want the mod team to cooperate but youre antogonizing them with every next post you make. What is that meant to achieve? Do you think that you can force them to do what you think is right? If you and the mod team really cant come to any type of compromise or understanding, whats the point? I get it that you want those units to be included but like what, by any means necessary? Thats not how things work.

I just want team to work with me and not make such mistakes. It's elementary, if you do not know , ask for help from someone who knows. But team Ignores me.

They destroyed my topic. All my posts were mixed up.

[umbracatervae777]

I'm not play the mod yet, but it seems i have a little responsible for this because i'm one of the "yes" voters.

Notes for you Khevsur, i don't like your attitude forcing the team mod to make an accurate of Old Georgian units. Yeah i know you like historical accuracy, you want to see the right portrayal of Old Georgian units. But you must accept the fact that Colchis is not even a playable faction here. The teams probably have more important to do rather than take care of 3 or 5 units which is even a minor units.

If you really impatient, all you can do is learn how to 3D modelling yourself slowly. If you want to learn, trust me, the result will be worth it. For example, i'm making Medieval Georgian ones by picking existing 3D models in game, then reskin it to fit for Georgian army.

All in all, i'm vote "yes" back then to motivate you to learn how make unit yourself.

[Khevsur]

I'm not play the mod yet, but it seems i have a little responsible for this because i'm one of the "yes" voters.

Notes for you Khevsur, i don't like your attitude forcing the team mod to make an accurate of Old Georgian units. Yeah i know you like historical accuracy, you want to see the right portrayal of Old Georgian units. But you must accept the fact that Colchis is not even a playable faction here. The teams probably have more important to do rather than take care of 3 or 5 units which is even a minor units.

If you really impatient, all you can do is learn how to 3D modelling yourself slowly. If you want to learn, trust me, the result will be worth it. For example, i'm making Medieval Georgian ones by picking existing 3D models in game, then reskin it to fit for Georgian army.

All in all, i'm vote "yes" back then to motivate you to learn how make unit yourself.

Thank you for making historically accurate Georgian army of the Middle Ages.
I like your artwork.

team not like the Caucasus and oldest georgian kingdoms , It is their will what they do. I did what I could.

[JERUSALEM]

Good job. Hope they will include it in their mode as you want it. Also voted - Yes.
But, take into consideration that those earrings on soldiers are wrong and you need to delete it from your pictures for more accuracy.
Earrings were used by few aristocrats (as insignia, symbol of power) and not by commoners and soldiers.

[Khevsur]

Good job. Hope they will include it in their mode as you want it. Also voted - Yes.
But, take into consideration that those earrings on soldiers are wrong and you need to delete it from your pictures for more accuracy.
Earrings were used by few aristocrats (as insignia, symbol of power) and not by commoners and soldiers.

thanks . Earrings found in tombs of Old Georgian noble Warriors . Yes, poor old georgians did not have Earrings.

You know history well

[Sarkiss]

thanks . Earrings found in tombs of Old Georgian noble Warriors . Yes, poor old georgians did not have Earrings.

You know history well

out of curiosity, and since you think you know 'your history' so well, why do you keep calling these peoples 'old Georgians'? surely if you're the expert you claim to be, you'd know that back then they did not identify themselves as such. i wouldn't normally ask this question of any amateur historian, but why keep doing this time and again if you are so knowledgeable and care for historical accuracy so much?

[Khevsur]

out of curiosity, and since you think you know 'your history' so well, why do you keep calling these peoples 'old Georgians'? surely if you're the expert you claim to be, you'd know that back then they did not identify themselves as such. i wouldn't normally ask this question of any amateur historian, but why keep doing this time and again if you are so knowledgeable and care for historical accuracy so much?

Yes, they were old Georgians:


Georgian tribes(Kartvelian tribes) - Egrisians(Colchians), Taochians,Kartlians(iberians) ,Meskhetians(Mushki),Kakhetians , Svanians(Soanes) , Chalybes(Sanni) ,Heniochs,Saspers and other georgian tribes - It was one people like Celts, Slavs, Germans, Arabs, Turks...

Georgian people had one language - Proto-Georgian(Proto-Kartvelian). in georgian language are small dialectal differences, but this is one language- Georgian ( Kartvelian ) language . Georgian people sometimes united and sometimes disintegrated - Because of the invaders. But They considered themselves one people,They fought together against the invaders and They always formed one kingdom.

These people created Kingdom Of Colchis In 13th c BC, Kingdom of Diauehi(Taochi) In the 12th c BC. Kingdom of iberia( Kartli) - In 4th c BC . Then in the Middle Ages they united again and formed the Kingdom of Georgia(Sakartvelos samepo). Today these people created the Republic of Georgia (sakartvelo).

According to the sources of ancient Greek historians Colchians and Meskhetians were one people. Before arrival of the Indo-european phrygo-Armenians, part of the population of kingdom of Urartu(Hurrians) was Georgian ( Saspers)

Please learn history of Georgia and then ask me questions. My English is limited and I do not want to give lectures.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catego...rgia_(country)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgians

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kartvelian_languages

[Sarkiss]

Please learn history of Georgia and then ask me questions. My English is limited and I do not want to give lectures.

you do try though, don't you. but distorted ones for some reason because something else takes precedent over history and historical accuracy. and because you have other priorities, the logic you apply to historical investigations is rather strange one imho. for example, no one calls Romans 'old Italians', even though Italy is not an anachronistic term when applied to them, unlike in your case, because at the time Italy existed as geographical concept. still, we do not call Romans 'Italians', be that 'old' or 'young'. there are many peoples who speak Romance languages today, we do not call them all Romans, let alone Italians. see where im going with this?

[Khevsur]

Colchis-Land of the Golden Fleece


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argona..._Golden_Fleece

https://georgianjournal.ge/discover-...en-fleece.html

[Tadzreuli]

Hi guys, looks like your discussion reached an impasse. I don't understand what about discuss you , are or not are the Old Georgian tribes a modern georgians ? Well, it is a question of language , that's all. Actually, old georgian language about 1500-2000 BC formed with 3 linguistic Kartvelian (Goergian ) groupes: Kartvels (main group), Laz and Svanian sub-languages groupes. Modern georgians speak with  90% same language as a old georgian tribes. So, for the finally over the inutile disscussion, I propose to chnage the term "Old Georgian" to the  simple "Kartvelian Warriors" , because this will be more accurate about hystorical evidences. The term "Kartvelian" regroupe all old georgian tribes .

[Khevsur]

Hi guys, looks like your discussion reached an impasse. I don't understand what about discuss you , are or not are the Old Georgian tribes a modern georgians ? Well, it is a question of language , that's all. Actually, old georgian language about 1500-2000 BC formed with 3 linguistic Kartvelian (Goergian ) groupes: Kartvels (main group), Laz and Svanian sub-languages groupes. Modern georgians speak with  90% same language as a old georgian tribes. So, for the finally over the inutile disscussion, I propose to chnage the term "Old Georgian" to the  simple "Kartvelian Warriors" , because this will be more accurate about hystorical evidences. The term "Kartvelian" regroupe all old georgian tribes .

I agree with you. These are Kartvelian warriors from Kartvelian Tribes - Colchians, Chalybeans, Iberians and so on. The word "old" is my little mistake. Kartvelian Tribes from Bronze and Hellenistic era are Kartvelian people today-Direct ancestors of today's Kartvelians and speak Kartvelian languages again.

[Khevsur]

i do apologise, please forgive my dilettante questions. obviously i am not an expert of your caliber but an average, humble history teacher that tries to learn. i hope this makes it clear why i do not understand some of your logic. so the language does not matter then, its to do with geography now? that's why you think that Kartvelian tribes 'did not disintegrate into different peoples'? though for them not to disintegrate, it assumes that there was uniformity and unity to start with, does it not? my understanding is that they actually emerge as disparate entities and get bundled into a political unit further down the line. but that did not happen until over a thousand years later, in the middle ages when we have the rise of a first unified 'Georgian' state spanning Colchis and Iberia, no? same process took place in other places - one tribe/sub-group dominates others and forges them into a political unit/state. this then gradually leads to unification and standartisation of culture, language etc. so to assume this unity is a given would seem wrong. nations are not simply born out of thin air, they are forged (in blood and iron Bismark may have added).

Yes! in the Middle Ages there was one kingdom of one people - Kingdom of Georgia

also , In the Hellenistic era there was one kingdom of one people - Kingdom of Iberia . I showed you




Why not read what I show you? You are not interested in history and you talk nonsense. I'm waiting for you. Prove that these were not one people. Show me the sources Or stop talking!



I'm tired of your "bla bla bla"

Do personal goals drive you to write these lies?

[Ampe211]

You dont understand. Lets assume that people inhabiting the region 3000 years ago are genetically and linguistically the same as today’s georgians. The states which the ancient kartvelians created cannot in any way, shape or form considered to be the antecedent of modern day Georgia. That would require a continous identity to exist from 1200 BC to modern day, which certainly does not.

[Khevsur]

You dont understand. Lets assume that people inhabiting the region 3000 years ago are genetically and linguistically the same as today’s georgians. The states which the ancient kartvelians created cannot in any way, shape or form considered to be the antecedent of modern day Georgia. That would require a continous identity to exist from 1200 BC to modern day, which certainly does not.

Do you know the history of Georgia? You do not know the history of Georgia and nevertheless you make wrong conclusions.

[Ampe211]

I have absolutely no intention of making fun of your country’s history. But you have to accept the fact, that this nationalistic approach of treating these very dubious, sometimes downright absurd sources and claims of likeminded historians as absolute truth just because they meet your ideas about your countrys history makes it impossible for the hard working creators of this mod successfully aiming to be one of the most realistic games out there to use any of your work.

[Khevsur]

I have absolutely no intention of making fun of your country’s history. But you have to accept the fact, that this nationalistic approach of treating these very dubious, sometimes downright absurd sources and claims of likeminded historians as absolute truth just because they meet your ideas about your countrys history makes it impossible for the hard working creators of this mod successfully aiming to be one of the most realistic games out there to use any of your work.

I am not a nationalist, I say that : Kartvelian tribes ( Colchians, Iberians , Meskhian , chalybes , taochi , saspers and others) created ancient kingdoms in ancient times ( Kingdom of Colchis, Kingdom of diauehi,Kingdom of Iberia ).These people were of one origin - Kartvelians ! Like Celts, germanics ... These were not different peoples, such as the Celts and the Turks. Do you oppose this?


I love this game because it is historically accurate, That is why I am fighting for historical accuracy in the Caucasus.

[QuintusSertorius]

I love this game because it is historically accurate, That is why I am fighting for historical accuracy in the Caucasus.

No you are not. You are fighting for nationalist-inspired historical revisionism. That is why we have no use for most of what you say.

[QuintusSertorius]

You dont understand. Lets assume that people inhabiting the region 3000 years ago are genetically and linguistically the same as today’s georgians. The states which the ancient kartvelians created cannot in any way, shape or form considered to be the antecedent of modern day Georgia. That would require a continous identity to exist from 1200 BC to modern day, which certainly does not.

Even that first premise is impossible outside of instances like uncontacted tribes of the Amazonian jungle. Where modern Georgia sits is a region much traversed by other peoples and interacted with everyone around them for that entire time.