Announcement: Europa Barbarorum II 2.35A R3.5 released!

[QuintusSertorius]

They have other elites, their Tarabostes cavalry are elite and don't require the Great King government. Their inability to take Histrie should be aided in the next release by the general reduction of Command stars for Rebel characters.

[Krampus]

Been away from the game for almost a year now, built a sprawling crypto mining farm in my small apt, but I am SO EXCITED TO PLAY THIS NEW PATCH <3

[bordinis]

They have other elites, their Tarabostes cavalry are elite and don't require the Great King government. Their inability to take Histrie should be aided in the next release by the general reduction of Command stars for Rebel characters.

Very lovely indeed. BTW you guys are sneaky, Those chatti spearmen look so awesome kudos who made those, their colours and variations look like done by a designer not mention the Langobardian retainers( I m yet to see them in campaign). Not to mention half of the gallic roster remade. Boii light infantry and galic combatants look awesome.. Chatti spearmen were long awaited unit by me also the cherusci swordsmen yet to be made

[Victor1234]

EBII isn't EB1, nor is it trying to be. I say this because the mechanics work differently. There are no "expansion regions", because government buildings aren't the main source of recruitment for Hellenistic factions, the polis and colonies are.

The reason you were struggling for regular Phalangitai is because you weren't building Hellenistic Colonies, which is where they come from. Same goes for other professional units, they come from colonies, not from your governments. It sounds like you were relying entirely on the polis for recruitment, and they're not at the cutting edge of warfare, which is why the Hemithorakitai persisted longer.

The Molossians only come from Epirus proper, that's intended. There should be other elite cavalry instead in those other two locations.

I'd highly recommend reading the Player's Guide on how the colonisation mechanics and reforms for the faction work.



They spawn with 3 Command stars, but if you leave them, they tend to get more if they win battles against the AI. That will be rectified in a later release, because it wasn't intended that they end up the best commanders on the map.

The spawns themselves are random. It's a relatively simple script that doesn't check ownership or settlements changing hands, so I can only suggest what you're observing is a coincidence. They're also not big stacks, the largest ones are only 8 units. Unless what you're encountering are consolidating stacks who've been hiding or wandering around.

Fair point about the rebels, for the rest though, are you sure it's just not Epiros's unique geographical situation? I only ask because I did build military colonies everywhere I went, but aside from Ambrakia, Pella and Demetrias, I can't recruit the regular phalangites anywhere I'd expanded until I hit Egypt. Nowhere in Italy or Sicily, not even Syrakousai. I can recruit the agema phalanx there once I'd done the centralization reform and build the highest colony I could, but no levy or regular phalanx.

I also couldn't recruit any levy or regular phalangites in any of the northern Illyrian cities (but Illyrian ones, sure), any of the Thracian/Byzantion, and only levy phalanxes in Greece/Thermon eventually, not regulars, even with the highest level colonies. Also no phalanxes on Crete, Rhodes or Cyrene.

Also, even in places I can build them, they come about 1 per 16 turns, while in the same timeframe I get 2 swordsmen and 1 spearman units, so essentially 3 non-phalanx to 1 phalangite.

I found in my Epirus game, everyone is ganging up on me, unlike my Roman game, so I'm bleeding troops like crazy trying to hold everyone off and in the rush, my army necessarily barely has any phalangites even before the reforms kick in, just because the cities that do make them have so few, and most of my cities don't make them in the first place.

I reached into Asia now after Pergamon declared war on me and see I picked up 3 cities that will make regular phalangites, bringing my total up to 7 (3 in Macedonia, 1 in Egypt, 3 in Asia) but it's already 215BC, and AI Egypt even built the land reform to do away with phalangites in one city already. Plus, I have ~20 cities that still don't make them.

I suspect if I'd turned east sooner, or played the Seleucids, I'd have more cities pumping them out, but it's definitely more than just building a military colony, there seems to be a geographical element involved too.

[realm56]

Pella, Antioch and Alexandria are the 3 places ingame where regular Phalangitai cam be recruited via government (These 3 locations have relatively large standing non-settler populations of Macedonians who were eligible for service in the phalanx). As for locations whose Hellenistic military colonies can produce them, they are restricted to a few select locations that reflect their suitability for large scale settlement by Greco-Macedonians (Such as Ambrakia. Demetrias, Memphis, West and south Anatolia, Kappadokia, Sinope. Trapezous, Mesopotamia and Europos).

[QuintusSertorius]

Fair point about the rebels, for the rest though, are you sure it's just not Epiros's unique geographical situation? I only ask because I did build military colonies everywhere I went, but aside from Ambrakia, Pella and Demetrias, I can't recruit the regular phalangites anywhere I'd expanded until I hit Egypt. Nowhere in Italy or Sicily, not even Syrakousai. I can recruit the agema phalanx there once I'd done the centralization reform and build the highest colony I could, but no levy or regular phalanx.

I also couldn't recruit any levy or regular phalangites in any of the northern Illyrian cities (but Illyrian ones, sure), any of the Thracian/Byzantion, and only levy phalanxes in Greece/Thermon eventually, not regulars, even with the highest level colonies. Also no phalanxes on Crete, Rhodes or Cyrene.

Also, even in places I can build them, they come about 1 per 16 turns, while in the same timeframe I get 2 swordsmen and 1 spearman units, so essentially 3 non-phalanx to 1 phalangite.

I found in my Epirus game, everyone is ganging up on me, unlike my Roman game, so I'm bleeding troops like crazy trying to hold everyone off and in the rush, my army necessarily barely has any phalangites even before the reforms kick in, just because the cities that do make them have so few, and most of my cities don't make them in the first place.

I reached into Asia now after Pergamon declared war on me and see I picked up 3 cities that will make regular phalangites, bringing my total up to 7 (3 in Macedonia, 1 in Egypt, 3 in Asia) but it's already 215BC, and AI Egypt even built the land reform to do away with phalangites in one city already. Plus, I have ~20 cities that still don't make them.

I suspect if I'd turned east sooner, or played the Seleucids, I'd have more cities pumping them out, but it's definitely more than just building a military colony, there seems to be a geographical element involved too.

You're mixing up different sources of recruitment there. Agema Phalangitai come only from your Basilike Patris or equivalent top-tier government.

Phalangitai are deliberately limited in where they can be recruited, so you're right there's a geographic element. That's primarily Anatolia, Syria and Egypt. They only come from Hellenistic Colony, barring special dispensation for Pella, Alexandreia and Antiocheia in the governments, where historically very large bodies of Makedonians were settled (or in the first case being where they originate). They also diminish after the late Hellenistic reform, which means they disappear from some places where they weren't very frequent in the first place (replaced by Thorakitai mostly). The point is they were a scarce resource to fight over. Your main source as a western Mediterranean faction is their origin in Makedonia.

Levy phalanxes on the other hand come from both polis and colony (and a little bonus point of them in the Isopoliteia) in Greece later on.

But yes, different factions get different experiences.

[melkor400]

hello, quick question, are there any principate legionnaries or lorica segmentata legions in this new update? thanks!

[QuintusSertorius]

hello, quick question, are there any principate legionnaries or lorica segmentata legions in this new update? thanks!

No, nor will there ever be, they're outside our timeframe.

[Victor1234]

You're mixing up different sources of recruitment there. Agema Phalangitai come only from your Basilike Patris or equivalent top-tier government.

Phalangitai are deliberately limited in where they can be recruited, so you're right there's a geographic element. That's primarily Anatolia, Syria and Egypt. They only come from Hellenistic Colony, barring special dispensation for Pella, Alexandreia and Antiocheia in the governments, where historically very large bodies of Makedonians were settled (or in the first case being where they originate). They also diminish after the late Hellenistic reform, which means they disappear from some places where they weren't very frequent in the first place (replaced by Thorakitai mostly). The point is they were a scarce resource to fight over. Your main source as a western Mediterranean faction is their origin in Makedonia.

Levy phalanxes on the other hand come from both polis and colony (and a little bonus point of them in the Isopoliteia) in Greece later on.

But yes, different factions get different experiences.

That makes a lot of sense, thanks. I would say that it makes sense not to let them be produced in more regions than currently then, but I would still offer my opinion that the pool replenishment speed should be looked at. Like with the Italian soci, they refill much slower than the troops they're supposed to work with. I know they're not meant to form half of your army like with the Italians, but I can barely keep 2 full strength phalangite units in the field with all the fighting I'm doing, but am drowning in the support units, even pre-reform, just because they refill so much faster. The land reform that's supposed to decrease phalangites in favor of support units seems like something I'd never use, which seems counter-intuitive to what the mod is trying to accomplish.

I just checked to be sure, and in Ambrakia/Pella/Demetrias, I get a regular phalangite every 26 turns, but 1 swordsman and 1 spearman flanker every 9 turns. This means that after every phalangite recruitment cycle, I'd end up with 3 regular phalangites, and 18 support units, not even counting the Greek cities that effectively can only produce the support units (4 Greek cities for an additional 24 support units).

Again, just offering an opinion, but it seems like the intent is not for me to kit out 3 regular phalangites and 42 flanker units, even as a western Med faction, but that's what I end up doing just because I need to throw something at my opponents.

[QuintusSertorius]

Those regular Phalangitai should be supplemented in the battle line by levy phalanxes - you've got a choice of Deuteroi and/or Illyrioi as Epeiros. At the very least a couple of them to flank the main units. Those Greek cities will give you Deuteroi Phalangitai.

Plus there are merc Phalangitai available too, who are better than the levies, but not quite as good as the regulars. Both to hire directly, and to re-hire through the "capture" script.

[Victor1234]

Sounds good, I'll try that. I didn't know the capture script was available for phalangites too. I had it happen only once so far, and for hoplites at that. I'm back to playing as Rome and have some more good news.

Remember I mentioned my tactic of dumping all family members in Rome practically all the time? I think it breaks the offices script somehow because this latest turn, I just got 4 consuls elected in Rome simultaneously. Speaking of offices, Censor seems to be a hard one to get, in particular. I've only ever had one censor so far and I'm at 210BC. Lots of guys are eligible but usually get elected consul instead.

[realm56]

You're mixing up different sources of recruitment there. Agema Phalangitai come only from your Basilike Patris or equivalent top-tier government.

Phalangitai are deliberately limited in where they can be recruited, so you're right there's a geographic element. That's primarily Anatolia, Syria and Egypt. They only come from Hellenistic Colony, barring special dispensation for Pella, Alexandreia and Antiocheia in the governments, where historically very large bodies of Makedonians were settled (or in the first case being where they originate). They also diminish after the late Hellenistic reform, which means they disappear from some places where they weren't very frequent in the first place (replaced by Thorakitai mostly). The point is they were a scarce resource to fight over. Your main source as a western Mediterranean faction is their origin in Makedonia.

Levy phalanxes on the other hand come from both polis and colony (and a little bonus point of them in the Isopoliteia) in Greece later on.

But yes, different factions get different experiences.

The relative scarcity of Phalangitai is usually why I usually move my Hellenistic army away from the phalanx come 222BC (Thorakitai reforms) and had Thorakitai make up my main battle line. Additionally as Eperios, If you manage to subjugate Italia at the right time, Polybian Romans can also make up that front line.

[QuintusSertorius]

Sounds good, I'll try that. I didn't know the capture script was available for phalangites too. I had it happen only once so far, and for hoplites at that. I'm back to playing as Rome and have some more good news.

It only works in battles where you fight Phalangitai, but it's similar to the hoplite capture one.

Remember I mentioned my tactic of dumping all family members in Rome practically all the time? I think it breaks the offices script somehow because this latest turn, I just got 4 consuls elected in Rome simultaneously. Speaking of offices, Censor seems to be a hard one to get, in particular. I've only ever had one censor so far and I'm at 210BC. Lots of guys are eligible but usually get elected consul instead.

We have no way of limiting the number of consuls to two. We can either make it unique (one per election) or else however many might qualify.

The relative scarcity of Phalangitai is usually why I usually move my Hellenistic army away from the phalanx come 222BC (Thorakitai reforms) and had Thorakitai make up my main battle line. Additionally as Eperios, If you manage to subjugate Italia at the right time, Polybian Romans can also make up that front line.

Having discussed the relative scarcity of Thorakitai (and overabundance of Thureophoroi), I think a slight rebalance in the helcol is in order there. I think a little nuance for Aitolia is in order too, apparently they never experimented with the pike phalanx. So I'll make that the one Greek province that doesn't provide Deuteroi Phalangitai after the ThorakitaiReform in the polis. Little things like that make it feel less uniform.

[Hellenikon]

If you want to use regular phalangites in numbers, the best investment is to control one of the 3 macedonian capitals (Alexandreia, Antiocheia, Pella) and build a basilike patris there. Pella in particular is the best for this, due to having even more phalangites in the reformed colony.

[Lusitanio]

We have no way of limiting the number of consuls to two. We can either make it unique (one per election) or else however many might qualify.

We could do it with ancillaries, that way we could limit it to only two but it would require a change on the overall election process.

[bordinis]

SO what you guys planning with Numidia? different government types and recruitment? why change it?

[Aodh Mór Ó Néill]

Will Release 3 be out in the next couple of weeks?

[Victor1234]

I'm up to 190BC in my Rome game. I want to get those Marian reforms!

Speaking of Rome, the corona civica has happened to a few of my characters by now, in the form of an ancillary. I managed to win the corona obsidionalis once so far, and it was a trait for that specific character. Is this intentional? I would've thought the awards would be one (an ancillary so it can be passed down in the family?) or the other (a trait that only affects that one character).

I've been spending a lot of time developing Italy as a way to keep busy, and have another opinion to offer, this time around the Marian reforms. The Polybian reform feels spot on the nose in terms of game pacing but I'm sure I'm not the first to say the Marian reforms are a bit far out. Instead of trying to guess a better year for the first trigger (140BC is too late in my opinion, earlier dates might be too early for others, etc), why not remove the year condition altogether and add an additional indirectly time-based trigger besides the latifundia, of say 5 latin rights cities in Italy? This would accomplish in my opinion:

1. A more organic way to measure when the Romans are "ready" for the reform (given how well the colony points are balanced, it'll take a long time to get there regardless. I personally have 1 latifundia now in 190BC, expect to have the 6 by about ~180BC, but won't have 5 Latin cities before ~160BC at the earliest just because of how slow cultural conversion is even after you've built colonies).
2. Encourage the player to actually give cities Latin rights (since right now, it just removes the very cool Italian soci units, for little additional benefit and I'm holding off giving any more in spite of being able to)
3. Represent a gradual homogenization of the Roman army as each new Latin city comes online, since the Italian cities won't have the right cultural percentages all at once. Your Roman+Italian troops will become just Roman on their own.

Since the actual reforms are supposed to be around the breakdown of the property class-based system/manpower shortages and not just homogenization, I can understand that this might seem very ahistorical (if anything, use more Italians!), but because of the game's design, a Rome that is lacking manpower is a Rome that is going to get eaten by the AI and destroyed as a faction very quickly.

An alternative/accompanying idea might be that the larger city upgrades/agriculture buildings reduce the triarii, principes and equites pool specifically and increase the hastati/velites? Or at least just the triarii? The more successful you become along the historical path, and the larger your Italian cities grow, the more poor troops you end up having? This might allow for a gameplay compromise of showing how the property classes in the army degraded but not reducing the overall quantity so the AI doesn't get eaten. Food for thought anyways.

Anyways, it's interesting to see the campaign AI at work. I've been expanding even slower than Rome was historically (I just started going east after Ptolemies tried to invade Sicily), and only go to war when someone attacks me, and even then try to only take bits and pieces or vassal them instead of outright taking all cities. The naval invasion AI is working very well in particular, and Cyprus/various islands are a battleground like they should be. Even the British faction has crossed over into Belgium successfully!

One thing that I notice is that by now, several factions have been wiped out, completely independently of me (KH, Epirus, Pontus) and there are only a few rebel settlements left on the map (1 in Gaul, 1 in Ireland and the one covering Scandinavia). As a result, there are some pretty epic wars going on already between fairly large and in some cases very well developed factions, but I feel like I've also missed out on some pretty interesting opponents. The Seleucids will likely be the next to go, as they've been majorly ganged up on.

[realm56]

I'm up to 190BC in my Rome game. I want to get those Marian reforms!

Speaking of Rome, the corona civica has happened to a few of my characters by now, in the form of an ancillary. I managed to win the corona obsidionalis once so far, and it was a trait for that specific character. Is this intentional? I would've thought the awards would be one (an ancillary so it can be passed down in the family?) or the other (a trait that only affects that one character).

I've been spending a lot of time developing Italy as a way to keep busy, and have another opinion to offer, this time around the Marian reforms. The Polybian reform feels spot on the nose in terms of game pacing but I'm sure I'm not the first to say the Marian reforms are a bit far out. Instead of trying to guess a better year for the first trigger (140BC is too late in my opinion, earlier dates might be too early for others, etc), why not remove the year condition altogether and add an additional indirectly time-based trigger besides the latifundia, of say 5 latin rights cities in Italy? This would accomplish in my opinion:

1. A more organic way to measure when the Romans are "ready" for the reform (given how well the colony points are balanced, it'll take a long time to get there regardless. I personally have 1 latifundia now in 190BC, expect to have the 6 by about ~180BC, but won't have 5 Latin cities before ~160BC at the earliest just because of how slow cultural conversion is even after you've built colonies).
2. Encourage the player to actually give cities Latin rights (since right now, it just removes the very cool Italian soci units, for little additional benefit and I'm holding off giving any more in spite of being able to)
3. Represent a gradual homogenization of the Roman army as each new Latin city comes online, since the Italian cities won't have the right cultural percentages all at once. Your Roman+Italian troops will become just Roman on their own.

Since the actual reforms are supposed to be around the breakdown of the property class-based system/manpower shortages and not just homogenization, I can understand that this might seem very ahistorical (if anything, use more Italians!), but because of the game's design, a Rome that is lacking manpower is a Rome that is going to get eaten by the AI and destroyed as a faction very quickly.

An alternative/accompanying idea might be that the larger city upgrades/agriculture buildings reduce the triarii, principes and equites pool specifically and increase the hastati/velites? Or at least just the triarii? The more successful you become along the historical path, and the larger your Italian cities grow, the more poor troops you end up having? This might allow for a gameplay compromise of showing how the property classes in the army degraded but not reducing the overall quantity so the AI doesn't get eaten. Food for thought anyways.

IIRC, there was a post way back that mentioned a suggestion for a more organic trigger for achieving the thureos and thorakitai reforms. Perhaps a possible organic trigger for the thureos reforms would be the use/recruitment of certain thureos wielding units (Such as Batoroi or Raskumezenai) in battle for the thureos reforms. For the thorakitai reforms, perhaps its timing (For the automatic fallback) could be tied to a certain duration after the keltoi units get their 1st round of armor upgrades, unsure of what to do for the major organic trigger though. On that topic, the EB1 Cataphract recruitment unlock was an interesting one (Having to lose to Cata wielding armies is rough...perhaps just a trigger for catas specifically when you fight catas in battle), perhaps an opportunity to make them available at an earlier date for Baktria, then the AS would be a good place to start.

[Pooploop]

Need technical assistance. I think I have something of a Seleucid bloat. Playing as Macedonia, clicked end turn as usual, game cycles through the other faction icons until it stops at the Grey Blob's. Then, M2TW can't respond. It just hangs. According to the ebii logs these are the last events fired:

21:56:21.062 [game.script.trigger] [trace] Trigger <0101_sack_settlement_decrease_global> fired
21:56:21.062 [game.script.trigger] [trace] Trigger <extermination1> fired
21:56:21.062 [game.script.trigger] [trace] Trigger <Brutal_Bonus2> fired
21:56:21.062 [game.script.trigger] [trace] Trigger <Lenient_reduct2> fired
21:56:21.062 [game.script.trigger] [trace] Trigger <Wealthy_from_Slavery> fired
21:56:21.062 [game.script.trigger] [trace] Trigger <pillage_bad_disciplinarian_undisciplined> fired

I can't even describe how extremely depressed I feel. My ebii playthrough will be tarnished because of hanging? Yes, ebii is set to windowed borderless mode.