Trans Day of Visibility

[Stario]

Just because we can't figure it out now, doesn't mean all trans women should be barred from competitive sports.

I am quite happy for a biological man to stick to men's sport; and a biological woman to women's sport.

[antaeus]

I am quite happy for a biological man to stick to men's sport; and a biological woman to women's sport.

And those who are somewhere in between... biologically?

[enoch]

@himster but the good acts are the means brother

groupthink is not a recent thing, people just like to think it is

[the_mango55]

Is there any evidence of trans women dominating sports or is this another hypothetical boogeyman the right has created to perpetuate their culture war?

[Cope]

Is there any evidence of trans women dominating sports or is this another hypothetical boogeyman the right has created to perpetuate their culture war?

Critical theorists virulently attack social/cultural norms and balkanize society along identity lines (openly abetted by the globalist corporations they claim to despise) then have the temerity to accuse others of causing conflict. Laughable.

[athanaric]

Is there any evidence of trans women dominating sports or is this another hypothetical boogeyman the right has created to perpetuate their culture war?

Uh, I mean you could always look up their record, specifically record breaking (or leg breaking, skull breaking, ...) performances in women's sports. Also, projection much?

[Mithradates]

Uh, I mean you could always look up their record, specifically record breaking (or leg breaking, skull breaking, ...) performances in women's sports. Also, projection much?

In short: common sense.
Oh, God this is so ridiculous...

[the_mango55]

So when I asked for any evidence we’ve got “I’m rubber you’re glue” a demand to me to look it up, and an appeal to “common sense”

As I thought, made up boogeyman.

[athanaric]

As I thought, made up boogeyman.

Sure, if you just ignore the news of the last few years, it's a "made up boogeyman". Just like climate change, or Covid-19, or ISIL, etc.

[the_mango55]

Sure, if you just ignore the news of the last few years, it's a "made up boogeyman". Just like climate change, or Covid-19, or ISIL, etc.

The news I’ve seen recently has been a spate of Republican led states banning trans people from high school and college sports despite there never being any issue in the past with trans people in those sports.

It’s a solution in search of a problem and a wedge issue devised to draw ignorant voters because their important policy positions are not popular.

[Cyclops]

The news I’ve seen recently has been a spate of Republican led states banning trans people from high school and college sports despite there never being any issue in the past with trans people in those sports.

It’s a solution in search of a problem and a wedge issue devised to draw ignorant voters because their important policy positions are not popular.

I agree some evil politicians have created a wedge problem, eg the horrendous toilet laws, and its despicable.

There was an issue raised in Australian Rules Football where a woman Hannah Mouncey was barred because of her trans status. Trans women are subjected to a battery of tests concerning testosterone, and some women players have voiced injury concerns but AFAIK a bloodbath has not eventuated. In the event Mouncey has been excluded by quibbling and exceptions to the general rule, including the nebulous term "where height and strength are a factor". She's a big strong gil, so it was a "bad look", but there are actually Cis women with higher T allowed to play, so its not as clear cut as the Twitterverse pretends.

In my view the league has felt comfortable putting incredible restrictions and self-reporting requirements on trans woman to satisfy ignorant and ill willed objectors. There may well be genuine concerns (eg fellow players fears) but knowing the AFL they generally worry more about optics and "the vibe" and rarely show leadership, instead scuttling on board issue once the public drift of opinion becomes clear. Trans women are still pretty marginal so they get sort shrift.

In Mouney's case she met every requirement, including presenting heaps of private personal medical data about operations, blood tests, T levels etc. only to be canned by a vague "factor" clause.

[Gromovnik]

Some people are only interested in sports and toilets.

[Mithradates]

So when I asked for any evidence we’ve got “I’m rubber you’re glue” a demand to me to look it up, and an appeal to “common sense”

As I thought, made up boogeyman.

Ever wondered why these stories are always about trans women and never about trans men?
Right, because trans men were born with a female body therefore they dont have a chance against cis males in sports, thats how nature is, thats how reality is.
Trans women were born with a male body, so they dominate womens sport because they have male bodies.
Nature.
Common sense.

[Cyclops]

Some people are only interested in sports and toilets.

One is my religion. The other is a basic necessity. I refuse to elaborate further.

Ever wondered why these stories are always about trans women and never about trans men?
Right, because trans men were born with a female body therefore they dont have a chance against cis males in sports, thats how nature is, thats how reality is.
Trans women were born with a male body, so they dominate womens sport because they have male bodies.
Nature.
Common sense.

While my instinct is to agree with you, Mouncey argued she was not injuring her opponents as had been feared: if this is true then she should probably play.

We need more facts, I don't trust common sense because people are mostly stupid. I say this fully aware it applies to me more than most, and the more extreme views from many sides of this debate suggest my thesis is sustainable.

[Gromovnik]

Ever wondered why these stories are always about trans women and never about trans men?
Right, because trans men were born with a female body therefore they dont have a chance against cis males in sports, thats how nature is, thats how reality is.
Trans women were born with a male body, so they dominate womens sport because they have male bodies.
Nature.
Common sense.

So you do agree that those people are born in a "wrong" body, and their true gender is different? Good, we are making progress here.

[Mithradates]

One is my religion. The other is a basic necessity. I refuse to elaborate further.



While my instinct is to agree with you, Mouncey argued she was not injuring her opponents as had been feared: if this is true then she should probably play.

We need more facts, I don't trust common sense because people are mostly stupid. I say this fully aware it applies to me more than most, and the more extreme views from many sides of this debate suggest my thesis is sustainable.

An example:
Transgender Weight Lifter Breaks Every Female Record At World Championships

The transgender athletes do not have to undergo a sex change operation too, to qualify for the sport. ...
...transgender women, especially those who had undergone puberty as a male, had a definite unfair genetic advantage....
...A transgender born as a male has a completely different bone structure, which will stay the same and cannot match the body structure of a woman.

Its not just the testosterone level, the difference is much more.
Its not fair to let trans women to participate in cis women competitions, just like it is not fair to assign trans men to cis men categories because of the same reason, the one with the original male body will always have an unfair advantage over the one with an original female body.

Trans people should have their own categories, easy.

Also, a mans desire to become a trans woman and compete in the cis women categories outweights all the cis womens desire for a fair competition. Think about that for a second.

So you do agree that those people are born in a "wrong" body, and their true gender is different? Good, we are making progress here.

So not relevant here how they feel about their bodies, You are missing my point.

[Gromovnik]

But it's not just how they feel, you said so yourself.

[Infidel144]

Trans people should have their own categories, easy.

Even easier, completely eliminate sex based categories in sports.
"There's not a single thing a man can do that a woman can't do as well or better. Not a single thing."

[Himster]

Even easier, completely eliminate sex based categories in sports.

That seems to be inevitable at this point.

"There's not a single thing a man can do that a woman can't do as well or better. Not a single thing."

A typical woman might struggle when it comes to impregnating another woman... or peeing while standing up... being a king... becoming an American President... having rights in the Middle East... having a nice time while time-travelling to the past... lots of other things.

but the good acts are the means brother

Intentionality is part of the means, arguably the most significant part.

groupthink is not a recent thing, people just like to think it is

Of course, that's why why I specified the recent trend of groupthink.

[antaeus]

If we just allowed for full and uncontrolled gene editing we wouldn't have this debate.

Women could match men in every way they wanted. Maybe even produce their own sperm just to kill that argument. Trans people could be who they wanted to be... literally, and those of us who want to live in space could replace our legs with an extra pair of arms.

You guys and your binary "you're wrong... no you're wrong" debates will have to find something else to argue about.