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Thread: Trans Day of Visibility

  1. #21
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    Default Re: Trans Day of Visibility

    Quote Originally Posted by enoch View Post
    You go back to before me: not a point in your favor you had anything but the lowest expectations for me. Will try to answer what I think is your question. I have no problems with all women playing women’s sports at the amateur level period. I have some problems with forcing private colleges to do the same. I have serious problems with forcing private adult and professional leagues to include all women (black, Catholic, trans...) because $$profits$$ come first. I give zero s about the Olympics.

    I love capitalism and socialism and anarchism and libertarianism but most of all freedom of speech and belief and movement, human rights et al and all the other common sense things that would make a better world and I hate hate hate moralizers and xenophobes and people telling other people what to do so all these things make sense to me.

    No gods. No Masters.
    So you do want to see precisely that for the sports example. My guess was actually correct then.

    Well, since I've already demonstrated the logical inconsistency and underhandedness of doing that, and without being countered in any meaningful way, I'm done.

    Thanks for making this topic, I enjoyed responding.

  2. #22
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    Default Re: Trans Day of Visibility

    You are polite and your beliefs lack the bitterness such statements normally scream from the page.
    Last edited by alhoon; April 04, 2021 at 01:35 PM. Reason: off topic personal reference removed

  3. #23
    the_mango55's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: Trans Day of Visibility

    I don’t understand the confusion about cis and trans women.

    A woman could be either a right handed woman or a left handed woman, but either way she is a woman.
    ttt
    Adopted son of Lord Sephiroth, Youngest sibling of Pent uP Rage, Prarara the Great, Nerwen CarnesÓr, TB666 and, Boudicca. In the great Family of the Black Prince

  4. #24
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    Default Re: Trans Day of Visibility

    Religion couched as absolute morality (to circumstantially pick and choose from) messes with misguided souls. Very sad. Going to use lefty/righty irl. Took it to the crux.

  5. #25

    Default Re: Trans Day of Visibility

    Trans day of visibility is transphobic since it implies every other day is trans day of invisibility. Tear it down, pack it up.

  6. #26
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    Default Re: Trans Day of Visibility

    Minus the transphobic the first sentence is the whole point.

  7. #27
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    Default Re: Trans Day of Visibility

    The original first and truest of the Protestant denominations has determined that the Bible supports transexuals and have elected a transexual Bishop. Good times.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...er-bishop.html

  8. #28
    Tribunus
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    Default Re: Trans Day of Visibility

    We have a trans day of support coming up. I'm going to virtue signal like a liberal and hide my discomfort because with familiarity will come less angst, and less trans people will kill themselves from despair. I'll even make a cake: my skills don't extend to rainbow cakes so sparkles will have to do.
    Democracy and society is eating the **** sandwiches someone else prepares for you. This sort of event will have a few good outcomes despite the obvious awkwardness and forced nature of it.
    Jatte lambastes Calico Rat

  9. #29
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    Default Re: Trans Day of Visibility

    Virtue signaling is just another word for publicly stating the morally and ethically correct treatment of other humans. That the right has turned that into an insult because they are unwilling to act decent and keep relevancy within their base says all that needs saying.

  10. #30
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    Default Re: Trans Day of Visibility

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    I'm going to virtue signal like a liberal and hide my discomfort because with familiarity will come less angst, and less trans people will kill themselves from despair. I'll even make a cake: my skills don't extend to rainbow cakes so sparkles will have to do.
    Democracy and society is eating the **** sandwiches someone else prepares for you. This sort of event will have a few good outcomes despite the obvious awkwardness and forced nature of it.
    It is awkward and forced. But resentment does just as much damage to yourself as anything else.
    Eventually we will all have at least one trans friend, individuals can be understood and accepted.
    The braying of herds should be ignored, the individual should be exalted.
    The need for external validation is the whole ing problem killing all of these trans folks and stultifying many individuals. It's not something inborn, it is an artifice, a learned behaviour inherited from tribal ancestors who huddled close when the predators came. Like a genius invention from long ago, with a radioactive core that is now cracked, poisoning us. It is an impulse that is no longer needed and is demonstrably harmful.

    Quote Originally Posted by enoch View Post
    Virtue signaling is just another word for publicly stating the morally and ethically correct treatment of other humans.
    ... for the purposes of self-aggrandizement.

    That the right has turned that into an insult because they are unwilling to act decent and keep relevancy within their base says all that needs saying.
    It is an insult and it is a damning insult, equivalent to whore, dick or .
    Also, it's not just the "right". It's anyone outside the sound-proofed bubble of self-righteous orthodoxy that claims to be on the left. Which is, you know... most humans.
    Including people, like me, who is sickened by any form of deontological ethics, due to its inherently transitory fashion-like nature, while claiming the opposite. Whether it is religiously dictated, politically dictated or dictated by some supposed categorical imperative. Get rid of dictated ethics and we get rid of virtue-signalling.
    If only there were a deontological system that was universally accepted in which the final commandment was to jump off a cliff. Imagine that, a cleansed world with only Existentialists, Anarchists, Subjectivists, Naturists, Nichomacheans etc. I mean, we'd starve in our caves, but it'd be sweet for a few days.

    Damn, I went on quite a rant there.
    The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are so certain of themselves, but wiser people are full of doubts.
    -Betrand Russell

  11. #31
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    Default Re: Trans Day of Visibility

    Quote Originally Posted by Himster View Post
    It is awkward and forced. But resentment does just as much damage to yourself as anything else.
    Eventually we will all have at least one trans friend, individuals can be understood and accepted.
    The braying of herds should be ignored, the individual should be exalted.
    The need for external validation is the whole ing problem killing all of these trans folks and stultifying many individuals. It's not something inborn, it is an artifice, a learned behaviour inherited from tribal ancestors who huddled close when the predators came. Like a genius invention from long ago, with a radioactive core that is now cracked, poisoning us. It is an impulse that is no longer needed and is demonstrably harmful.



    ... for the purposes of self-aggrandizement.



    It is an insult and it is a damning insult, equivalent to whore, dick or .
    Also, it's not just the "right". It's anyone outside the sound-proofed bubble of self-righteous orthodoxy that claims to be on the left. Which is, you know... most humans.
    Including people, like me, who is sickened by any form of deontological ethics, due to its inherently transitory fashion-like nature, while claiming the opposite. Whether it is religiously dictated, politically dictated or dictated by some supposed categorical imperative. Get rid of dictated ethics and we get rid of virtue-signalling.
    If only there were a deontological system that was universally accepted in which the final commandment was to jump off a cliff. Imagine that, a cleansed world with only Existentialists, Anarchists, Subjectivists, Naturists, Nichomacheans etc. I mean, we'd starve in our caves, but it'd be sweet for a few days.

    Damn, I went on quite a rant there.
    It was a fantastic rant. Adults telling other adults how to live is the worst. For me the reasons for people expressing proper treatment of fellow humans is irrelevant. And of course I would prefer action but ideas are as infective as hyped. If just enough people believed that treating others as one wants to be treated was the way what a wonderful world it would be.

    From my own experience I am a man who knows from his history he is capable of astonishing evil, yet I have spent 16 plus years acting like a dogooder’s dogooder. To such an extant even the people who knew the younger me sell me as a bastion of decency and kindness.

    So my question @himster is does it matter why I act this way, if the act is so convincing it is the intersubjective reality of those I interact with? Self aggrandizement isn’t the worst path to a better self.

    An aside I love your posts. I wish you were here more often. Join the discord group in Akar’s signature for further discussion whenever it suits your fancy.

  12. #32
    Tribunus
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    Default Re: Trans Day of Visibility

    Quote Originally Posted by Himster View Post
    It is awkward and forced. But resentment does just as much damage to yourself as anything else.
    Eventually we will all have at least one trans friend, individuals can be understood and accepted.
    The braying of herds should be ignored, the individual should be exalted.
    The need for external validation is the whole ing problem killing all of these trans folks and stultifying many individuals. It's not something inborn, it is an artifice, a learned behaviour inherited from tribal ancestors who huddled close when the predators came. Like a genius invention from long ago, with a radioactive core that is now cracked, poisoning us. It is an impulse that is no longer needed and is demonstrably harmful....
    Sorry I wasn't expressing resentment, rather scorning my own small mindedness. We need a lot more smilies, with a lot more nuance.

    I approach the question of individual validation differently. I see the value of the group and the value of ritual. I don't think the impulse to be a group is an ancient aberration or monstrous survival, rather we exist (to the extent anything does) in the interplay between the (illusion of) individuality and (equally illusory) herd existence. Ultimately I see us as accidentally self aware, self abusing star dust.

    You're very right about trans friends making us less scared, and events like this are inoculations for the less emotionally aware. My nephew transitioned F to M and I didn't know, I saw this rowdy unshaved young lout at my brother's wedding and did not even talk to them, because I didn't know who it was. A little ritual or ceremony or bar-mitzvah/confirmation/boy ritual would have meant all the family were up to speed. Trans people die in the silence and get bruised by the ignorance. Next time I see Big Al he's getting an avuncular bro-hug cos I'll know who it is.
    Jatte lambastes Calico Rat

  13. #33
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    Default Re: Trans Day of Visibility

    Only problem I have is when biological males who decide they are females compete in female sports with females. Not right! Imo

  14. #34
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    Default Re: Trans Day of Visibility

    Quote Originally Posted by Stario View Post
    Only problem I have is when biological males who decide they are females compete in female sports with females. Not right! Imo
    Agree that is a problem you have.

  15. #35

    Default Re: Trans Day of Visibility

    Quote Originally Posted by Stario View Post
    Only problem I have is when biological males who decide they are females compete in female sports with females. Not right! Imo
    You have some pretty strange problems.
    Optio, Legio I Latina

  16. #36
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    Default Re: Trans Day of Visibility

    Ye I agree too; its BS! Needs to stop!
    Outright unfair for a female mma fighter sustain a fractured skull from a hard KO because her opponent is a biological male.
    That sort of BS doesn't belong in sport.

    Few other female sports are also currently dominated by biological males. Unfair for females imo... Utter BS.
    Hopefully our dudicial system can in time fix this BS.

  17. #37
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    Default Re: Trans Day of Visibility

    Quote Originally Posted by enoch View Post
    From my own experience I am a man who knows from his history he is capable of astonishing evil, yet I have spent 16 plus years acting like a dogooder’s dogooder. To such an extant even the people who knew the younger me sell me as a bastion of decency and kindness.
    Being capable of evil is arguably the ultimate form of good.
    If someone is incapable of harming another, it cannot be said that he is choosing good when he doesn't cause harm. He is merely incapable of choice. The man capable of wickedness and chooses good: he walks among the righteous.

    So my question @himster is does it matter why I act this way, if the act is so convincing it is the intersubjective reality of those I interact with? Self aggrandizement isn’t the worst path to a better self.
    This is another issue that has arisen with the recent trends of group-think. Consequentialism has come to overshadow intentionalism.
    It is a basic principle of ethics that ends do not justify means. I believe this also applies to pre-reflective actions, which, I think describes your path.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stario View Post
    Only problem I have is when biological males who decide they are females compete in female sports with females. Not right! Imo
    I'm quite sure there will be a league system developed, one day, that adequately accounts for muscle-mass/density disparities. Just because we can't figure it out now, doesn't mean all trans women should be barred from competitive sports. It's an issue now and will be for some time.
    One day combat sports will be dominated solely by trans folks, not just trans gender, but trans species too: Hermaphroditic octopus beings with shimmering aluminium scales battling a fluorescent 20 foot entity of condescended thought that whispers flame and shouts with the power of a thousand brilliant dying suns.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    I approach the question of individual validation differently. I see the value of the group and the value of ritual. I don't think the impulse to be a group is an ancient aberration or monstrous survival, rather we exist (to the extent anything does) in the interplay between the (illusion of) individuality and (equally illusory) herd existence. Ultimately I see us as accidentally self aware, self abusing star dust.
    I would argue that, unlike the herd, the individual has at least a spark of irreducible necessity at its core.
    All things can be doubted, until one thing is left: the existence of the one doing the doubting. From this single seed of absolute knowledge, all other knowledge grows.
    We are reducible to being even lesser than stardust, and that's where we should start any schema of metaphysics or epistemology and (in a round about way) ethics. Try building a house on free-floating assumptions, and watch it sink.
    The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are so certain of themselves, but wiser people are full of doubts.
    -Betrand Russell

  18. #38
    Tribunus
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    Default Re: Trans Day of Visibility

    Quote Originally Posted by Gromovnik View Post
    You have some pretty strange problems.
    Its a problem when women have carved out a place for themselves in a male dominated society and sports culture, and someone they think is a man rolls up and grabs all the medals. In some feminists narratives that's a hard pill to swallow.

    Quote Originally Posted by Himster View Post
    I would argue that, unlike the herd, the individual has at least a spark of irreducible necessity at its core.
    Never met a self-generating individual...except the universe, or possible God...Rene's point stands even the assault of the solipsist and the monad. For myself I am but a herd moment, and only by talking to you do I join the herd mind: the rest is dormant capacity.

    Quote Originally Posted by Himster View Post
    All things can be doubted, until one thing is left: the existence of the one doing the doubting. From this single seed of absolute knowledge, all other knowledge grows.
    Predicated on "the one reasoning" not being insane or stupid of course I cannot guarantee my own qualification to doubt but I believe in yours, so I agree the doubt is not in question.

    I guess an Indian philosopher (Upanishadic? I forget the schools and names) might make a point that doubt may not be what we think it is, and it might be someone else doing the doubting and we (or someone we think we are) perceive it falsely as out own blah blah they have a habit of getting into solid sounding premises and honeycombing even doubt with doubt...but the doubt does feel irreducible.

    "The One" who does the doubting is in question. Is it One? Is that one less than the whole? I'm drifting back toward some ultra boring monadism here (its like I'm talking to myself ).

    Quote Originally Posted by Himster View Post
    We are reducible to being even lesser than stardust, and that's where we should start any schema of metaphysics or epistemology and (in a round about way) ethics. Try building a house on free-floating assumptions, and watch it sink.
    I think an individual is a free floating assumption, unless the Individual is All. Remember Descartes in his room looked out his window and had the paranoid thought that all the passers-by might be robots. Thats pretty Trumped up dude, I mean doubt as a first principle? Thats Taoist "it is the empty spaces that make a room useful" no its not its the bloody walls and roof, no one goes into space and says "sure are a lot of small useful rooms out here". That sort of reasoning means poptarts are ravioli and I'm not having it.

    Nitpicking and nervous giggling aside I really do doubt the individual being more than a passing illusion (a really satisfying one though) but you make good points. if we are temporary swirls of stardust and thoughts and dreams and doubt are mere parasites from the ether they still exist, and so do we sort of, just not on the mythic terms we generated to explain our feelings in the past.
    Jatte lambastes Calico Rat

  19. #39

    Default Re: Trans Day of Visibility

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    Its a problem when women have carved out a place for themselves in a male dominated society and sports culture, and someone they think is a man rolls up and grabs all the medals. In some feminists narratives that's a hard pill to swallow.
    Exactly, TERFs are so scummy.
    Optio, Legio I Latina

  20. #40

    Default Re: Trans Day of Visibility

    We are not what other people say we are. We are who we know ourselves to be, and we are what we love. Thatís OK." ó Laverne Cox

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