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Thread: Trans Day of Visibility

  1. #81

    Default Re: Trans Day of Visibility

    Quote Originally Posted by antaeus View Post
    Perhaps you missed the direct nature of my question. I asked what are you being forced to cater to?
    Perhaps the most Orwellian example would be that I’ve been asked by my direct superiors at work to make sure I use “gender neutral” greetings and language in correspondence, in case any recipients are put off by “cis-normative” language (he/she, sir/ma’am, guys/ladies, etc). I work for a private company in a space unrelated to social or political activism. It would be amusing if it didn’t require constant self censorship, all to cater to the possible reaction of some portion of an audience that could be less than 1% transgender people, if at all. And all to virtue signal my compliance with an absurd de-facto policy, just so I can keep my job.
    Quote Originally Posted by sumskilz
    Which is concerning considering the increase is likely due to endocrine disrupters in the food supply and environment. I've had the (maybe not so paranoid) concern that segments of the population will be unbothered by the problem if it happens to support their ideological biases about sex/gender. It's a problem that is certainly getting worse.
    Did you have background info on this? I know you shared that study with me the other day. I’m curious to know the potential scope of the impact.
    I think that pre-feminising therapy figure is an underestimate depending on what is being measured, which would likely translate to the post-feminising therapy figure.
    There’s definitely a difference in measurement between the two studies that probably would lend itself to potential underestimation in the study I cited. First, they studied members of the Air Force, not athletes, and according to changes in hormone levels and fitness test performance, not physical force. It’s a decent proxy, but may not account for innate differences in certain physical capacities between men and women.
    Last edited by Lord Thesaurian; June 17, 2021 at 07:37 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    No, we don't care about your libertarian "evidence".

  2. #82
    antaeus's Avatar Simplism
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    Default Re: Trans Day of Visibility

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Thesaurian View Post
    Perhaps the most Orwellian example would be that I’ve been asked by my direct superiors at work to make sure I use “gender neutral” greetings and language in correspondence, in case any recipients are put off by “cis-normative” language (he/she, sir/ma’am, guys/ladies, etc). I work for a private company in a space unrelated to social or political activism. It would be amusing if it didn’t require constant self censorship, all to cater to the possible reaction of some portion of an audience that could be less than 1% transgender people, if at all. And all to virtue signal my compliance with an absurd de-facto policy, just so I can keep my job.
    Can you give me examples of times you have self censored when at work while discussing transgender people? What was the context? what did you want to say? What did you end up saying?
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB MARENOSTRUM

  3. #83

    Default Re: Trans Day of Visibility

    Quote Originally Posted by antaeus View Post
    Can you give me examples of times you have self censored when at work while discussing transgender people? What was the context? what did you want to say? What did you end up saying?
    I’m fairly certain the level of detail I provided makes shifting the goalposts any further impossible, rhetorically or otherwise.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    No, we don't care about your libertarian "evidence".

  4. #84

    Default Re: Trans Day of Visibility

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Thesaurian View Post
    Did you have background info on this? I know you shared that study with me the other day. I’m curious to know the potential scope of the impact.
    Sure, here are some of the studies:

    Decrease in Anogenital Distance among Male Infants with Prenatal Phthalate Exposure

    First trimester phthalate exposure and anogenital distance in newborns

    First trimester phthalate exposure and male newborn genital anomalies

    Prenatal phthalate exposure and reduced masculine play in boys

    Temporal trends in sperm count: a systematic review and meta-regression analysis

    Phthalate Exposure and Long-Term Epigenomic Consequences: A Review

    Transgenerational Effects of Endocrine-Disrupting Chemicals on Male and Female Reproduction

    The question of declining sperm density revisited: an analysis of 101 studies published 1934-1996

    And here is the woman who has headed a lot of this research for the NIH explaining it simple enough for Joe Rogan to understand:



    It would make sense if endocrine disruptors are also a factor in the prevalence of gender dysphoria, but I doubt anyone wants to touch that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


  5. #85
    swabian's Avatar igni ferroque
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    Default Re: Trans Day of Visibility

    Last edited by swabian; June 17, 2021 at 11:37 AM.

  6. #86

    Default Re: Trans Day of Visibility

    Quote Originally Posted by swabian View Post
    Yeah, pretty disturbing. Enough bioaccumulation of that and we're likely to make our species extinct. Hence my (possibly paranoid) concern about sex/gender ideology getting involved. The biological sexes becoming more similar is a sign of something very bad.
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


  7. #87
    swabian's Avatar igni ferroque
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    Default Re: Trans Day of Visibility

    Sorry, it's the most incomprehensive article I have ever read. Normally I can get an idea, but this is absolutely horrible. This really is only for involved specialists.

  8. #88

    Default Re: Trans Day of Visibility

    Quote Originally Posted by sumskilz View Post
    Yeah, pretty disturbing. Enough bioaccumulation of that and we're likely to make our species extinct. Hence my (possibly paranoid) concern about sex/gender ideology getting involved. The biological sexes becoming more similar is a sign of something very bad.
    I was talking to someone at the park yesterday. I said to him, "The way kids look today, you can't tell boys from girls. Why, look at that kid over there - is that a boy or a girl?" He said, "That's a boy, that's my son." I said, "Sure, you knew, you're his father." He said, "I'm not his father, I'm his mother!"
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  9. #89
    antaeus's Avatar Simplism
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    Default Re: Trans Day of Visibility

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Thesaurian View Post
    I’m fairly certain the level of detail I provided makes shifting the goalposts any further impossible, rhetorically or otherwise.
    Most people would call this a conversation. If you're uncomfortable with a conversation changing over time based on how it progresses, I'm not sure why you're even here.

    Remember, you led us down this path. I was discussing someone's simpleton post, you brought the additional angle about the many suffering for the few. You've implied that this is personal for you. I'm just trying to get to the crux of your suffering - to understand how difficult life has been for you. Unlike many of your other conversationalists in this thread, I am a staunch advocate of free speech and I disagree with the kinds of environments you've been describing, but you haven't given me detail of how those policies have actually affected your behaviour. I get that you don't normally allow for the personal to creep into your debates, but it can be healthy - this might allow some of the others in this thread to empathise and form a greater understanding through your experiences.

    So my question is not one of shifting goalposts, but it is one of specificity.

    So again: Can you give me examples of times you have self censored when at work while discussing transgender people? What was the context? what did you want to say? What did you end up saying?
    Last edited by antaeus; June 17, 2021 at 05:34 PM.
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  10. #90

    Default Re: Trans Day of Visibility

    Quote Originally Posted by antaeus View Post
    Most people would call this a conversation. If you're uncomfortable with a conversation changing over time based on how it progresses, I'm not sure why you're even here.

    Remember, you led us down this path. I was discussing someone's simpleton post, you brought the additional angle about the many suffering for the few. You've implied that this is personal for you. I'm just trying to get to the crux of your suffering - to understand how difficult life has been for you. Unlike many of your other conversationalists in this thread, I am a staunch advocate of free speech and I disagree with the kinds of environments you've been describing, but you haven't given me detail of how those policies have actually affected your behaviour. I get that you don't normally allow for the personal to creep into your debates, but it can be healthy - this might allow some of the others in this thread to empathise and form a greater understanding through your experiences.

    So my question is not one of shifting goalposts, but it is one of specificity.

    So again: Can you give me examples of times you have self censored when at work while discussing transgender people? What was the context? what did you want to say? What did you end up saying?
    It isn’t an emotional issue for me (beyond the philosophical sense), it’s an inconvenience with grim implications. You’re right that I normally don’t see the point of including personal anecdotes in a political discussion. You were given a general example of controversial accommodations for transgender people. You asked for a personal example, so whatever connection that has to the current discussion is yours to make. I’m not looking to vent my feelings or suggest I am a unique victim. The point of the requested example is to show the banality of the environment we’re all living in.

    My only reaction was to think, “and so it begins,” and to modify my prose as requested going forward. I could have probably, politely declined or rebutted the instructions I was given, or tried to negotiate or explain myself. I might have even been successful. But I didn’t, because simple obedience is easy, freedom is hard. I keep my head down, I don’t cause trouble, so I can be left alone. I could be put in the street just for talking about this. Brave new world. So now you have the personal example to go with the general one skilz and I were discussing. Make of it what you will.
    Last edited by Lord Thesaurian; June 17, 2021 at 06:42 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    No, we don't care about your libertarian "evidence".

  11. #91

    Default Re: Trans Day of Visibility

    So, nothing happened. Or being polite to people is somehow traumatic for you.
    Optio, Legio I Latina

  12. #92

    Default Re: Trans Day of Visibility

    >”Dear sir/ma’am” is rude and offensive

    What a time to be alive.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    No, we don't care about your libertarian "evidence".

  13. #93
    Himster's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Trans Day of Visibility

    I do find it strange that trans identity somehow got contaminated with this non-binary business. They are irreconcilable opposites.
    One of these is the statement: I am the opposite gender to the one I appear to be, I am the master of my destiny and I decide who/what I am. Nothing can stop me.
    The other is: Gender is an indefinable and indefinite tessellated spectrum, men and women don't exist. To use a pronoun, other than the one I made up five minutes ago, is a hate crime and you should be fired/homeless as a result.

    You can't be a woman trapped in a man's body if gender binaries don't exist.
    The moment we snap our fingers and believe that gender is non-binary then trans-people literally cease to exist. Their struggle, erased.

    The cult-like nature of the non-binary collective is not just separate from trans issues, it is an attack on them. And unlike trans people, they all seem to be intensely obnoxious, which is probably colouring my view of their claims.
    The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are so certain of themselves, but wiser people are full of doubts.
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  14. #94

    Default Re: Trans Day of Visibility

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Thesaurian View Post
    >”Dear sir/ma’am” is rude and offensive

    What a time to be alive.
    And what greetings did they told you to use?
    Optio, Legio I Latina

  15. #95
    swabian's Avatar igni ferroque
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    Default Re: Trans Day of Visibility

    Quote Originally Posted by Gromovnik View Post
    And what greetings did they told you to use?
    Why don't you just get to the point instead of this passive-aggressive bombardment with stupid questions? Oh right, you don't have a point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Thesaurian View Post
    >”Dear sir/ma’am” is rude and offensive

    What a time to be alive.
    Hysterical times, indeed. I suggest to just lean back and enjoy the butthurt.

    Quote Originally Posted by Knight of Heaven View Post
    No, the idea that people are born in the wrong bodies, is not backed by any science whatsoever.

    What is agreed is that there is people who feel that way at some point in their lives for whatever reason that is unclear actually. And that is called gender dysphoria. It is a feeling.

    One of its known treatments, is an aesthetic transition to the opposite gender, in a way to alleviate the feeling of dysphoria. With mixed, and unclear results on the efficiency of that treatment to be honest.

    I do not wish any ill will to people who feel gender dysphoria, on the contrary. The transition process shouldn't be above medical, scientific, and moral question just for the sake of ideological dogma, or activism.
    And i do think the activism, and ideological dogmatists, allied to a sense of opportunist business in a new thriving industry, is taking over the narrative, and probably doing more harm then good if im honest.
    Yes, exactly. Good post. It used to be regarded as some sort of mental disorder (identity disturbance, unspecified personality disorder, etc), but this has been removed from the DSM out of politically correct politeness. I doubt gender dysphoric people are done any favours with that.

    This gender crazy is a societal problem of our times (note: i said "problem", not "catastrophe"), and to mention this very fact is not an expression of trauma or victimhood @ Gromovnik. It's the problematisation of ridiculous, unscientific garbage. Your trollish mock concern about the emotional state of people with differing opinions rather indicates projection from your side, Gromovnik: it might very well be you who is expressing hidden distress and fear of oppression with that.
    Last edited by swabian; July 04, 2021 at 09:18 AM.

  16. #96

    Default Re: Trans Day of Visibility

    Jesus. I only asked him a simple question, relax, it's not the end of the world.
    Optio, Legio I Latina

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