I find this mod unplayable cause of the NATO HRE

**The Despondent Mind** · March 09, 2021, 12:34 PM

Just look at this:

This is every game, either all of this is red or its green, there is never variation, its just a block of factions against the HRE faction, once it gets mauled, you have one enormous blob. There are no sub mods or methods I found that fix it, except the crazy ones that turn the AI aggression into pandemonium, but nothing with nuance or finesse to make the German/Italian factions have some variation in diplomatic relations.

Basically its impossible to get any fun in the western part of the map, usually the HRE are good with England, so after France gets eaten up you almost get the

ing NATO... I just don't get why does it take a year or more to fix stuff like this, other mods have smaller updates to rectify stuff like this.

**alhoon** · March 09, 2021, 01:36 PM

I actually find it both realistic and desirable. You get one serious late-game enemy.

**Poacher886** · March 10, 2021, 11:33 AM

Ive voiced many times my quibble with France (one of the leading Medieval powers) not existing after so many turns, they might as well remove them from the game, as is the case with alot of factions, as you say OP, it baffles me how the devs can create such a fantastic and complete mod, without fixing (improving) the basics of diplomacy, faction relations, and balancing for re-play value.

Every game really is a copy of the last. France dies > England takes over France > Central Europe is one big happy family > West goes to war with East > End.

**The Despondent Mind** · March 10, 2021, 01:02 PM

Originally Posted by alhoon

I actually find it both realistic and desirable. You get one serious late-game enemy.

NATO-like alliance in 1212 realistic?

I don't find it desirable, I want my TW campaign to have diversity and variation, not have the same exact block of factions each and every game, and also a boring or disastrous early game.

Originally Posted by Poacher886

Ive voiced many times my quibble with France (one of the leading Medieval powers) not existing after so many turns, they might as well remove them from the game, as is the case with alot of factions, as you say OP, it baffles me how the devs can create such a fantastic and complete mod, without fixing (improving) the basics of diplomacy, faction relations, and balancing for re-play value.

Every game really is a copy of the last. France dies > England takes over France > Central Europe is one big happy family > West goes to war with East > End.

Exactly, I just don't get what they were thinking with this, and why can't they release minor submods or patches like all big and popular mods do.

**Poacher886** · March 10, 2021, 02:45 PM

So, im guessing their concentrating on the hard content like Naval combat / units (would be nice). etc first, before perhaps refining the gameplay. However, im amazed no-one has made a sub mod for this issue for the time being, without as you say being an "All out super massacre aggression fest" as per some of the Campaign Ai mods currently available..

**Wallachian** · March 12, 2021, 02:38 AM

Originally Posted by The Despondent Mind

Exactly, I just don't get what they were thinking with this, and why can't they release minor submods or patches like all big and popular mods do.

It's easy to criticise people's work when you are not involved in it. These guys poured blood and tears into this mod. modding things like AI behaviour is probably the hardest thing to do.

If people are not happy with the outcome they should either do their own changes or try and learn how to mod and assist the team. Just providing criticism but no actual help does nothing.

**gary** · March 16, 2021, 08:22 AM

I think they are limited by the Attila engine... I'm not sure how they could change it...The creators of this mod have performed wonders, and it is by far the most polished and ambitious mod out there for Attila. I'm sure they will find some way to work around the green blob... France probably needs to be strengthened to make it less fragile early-on, also, perhaps alliances need to be more nuanced in order to not have the whole of HRE gan up on France... But these are just observations, not criticisms, I know as an "X Modder" how much time and effort goes into making work like this, truly astounding what they have done with this Attila. Well done.

**VltimaRatio** · March 20, 2021, 02:51 PM

Would it be possible to throw in a script that resets faction attitude when the leader dies? Might keep things more fluid as the game goes on. And politics were pretty personal back then so it's not totally crazy. But I agree it's incredible what this team did with the Attila engine, warscape isn't exactly modder-friendly compared to the old titles.

**The Despondent Mind** · April 17, 2021, 01:21 PM

Originally Posted by Wallachian

It's easy to criticise people's work when you are not involved in it. These guys poured blood and tears into this mod. modding things like AI behaviour is probably the hardest thing to do.

If people are not happy with the outcome they should either do their own changes or try and learn how to mod and assist the team. Just providing criticism but no actual help does nothing.

Oh c'mon mate, that is a ridiculous argument, criticism is criticism, I don't have to be a 5 star chief to say that a piece of meat is under cooked. A game or a mod can simply fail at something, much bigger developers than this mod have failed and taken criticism on the chin. I have also tried to learn how to fix this, but nobody on lovely TWC was willing to help me, for again, what is a small matter of changing the diplomatic standings in the beginning (who likes/dislikes who).

And I am not talking about AI behavior, just simple faction standings in the beginning of the game, there is too many factions that like each other, that should be easy to fix. I have played over 50 Attila mods, and thousands of TW mods, no mod ever has made such bizarre oversight, where you have one enormous block of factions that do nothing but just love each other and gang up on other ones.

To give an example, I am trying to play as Portugal, but its not possible to have fan since from Aragon to England everybody is buddies, and since Portugal is excommunicated at the start, everyone hates me to a comical degree, so I get attacked by German factions, cause they have nothing better to do since France and HRE are crushed.

**VINC.XXIII** · April 23, 2021, 02:14 PM

If they manage to mod the map it will help, I generally find geopolitic to be disgusting on Rome II/Attila due to low amount of regions, which is partially easier to bear on provincial maps(HatG).

Btw, there are plenty reinforcement scripts in HatG and CiG which helps AI vs player, maybe it could be used here for AI vs AI? You can have reinforcement helping italian Comunes, maybe some dysentry script to help against germans in summer(historical).

**Condottiere SOG** · April 23, 2021, 02:22 PM

Originally Posted by Poacher886

Ive voiced many times my quibble with France (one of the leading Medieval powers) not existing after so many turns, they might as well remove them from the game, as is the case with alot of factions, as you say OP, it baffles me how the devs can create such a fantastic and complete mod, without fixing (improving) the basics of diplomacy, faction relations, and balancing for re-play value.

Every game really is a copy of the last. France dies > England takes over France > Central Europe is one big happy family > West goes to war with East > End.

Pretty much.

**Visarion** · April 23, 2021, 03:41 PM

I just conquered HRE!!!

**Mugen234** · April 23, 2021, 11:57 PM

I had fixed it in my sub mod before the update and will get back to fixing this, before I had it so all throughout the map factions had infights so this way campaigns were more interesting. As well as improving the garrisons of major Kingdoms like France and HRE so they would be the mini-bosses in their region splitting up other factions to either ally with them or go to war.

I'll be working on the new update soon which should be out in a week or so after a few tests.

**Lunar4** · May 14, 2021, 12:25 PM

Originally Posted by Mugen234

I had fixed it in my sub mod before the update and will get back to fixing this, before I had it so all throughout the map factions had infights so this way campaigns were more interesting. As well as improving the garrisons of major Kingdoms like France and HRE so they would be the mini-bosses in their region splitting up other factions to either ally with them or go to war.

I'll be working on the new update soon which should be out in a week or so after a few tests.

thanks!!! keep us updated