Makedonia always at war with Ptolemaioi

**Roma_Victrix** · March 09, 2021, 03:33 AM

I haven't played a Macedon campaign for quite a while, so this is something I must have forgotten about or perhaps it wasn't in previous versions of 2.0?

There seems to be no way to declare a ceasefire with the Ptolemies, with war declared in the very next turn after trying to hammer out a peace deal via diplomats. It wasn't just my diplomats trying to do this, they attempted to make peace with my faction using theirs. Once again, on the very next turn we were at war for no particular reason at all. There was not even a naval blockade involved.

Obviously this is all scripted, so what exactly does Antigonid Pella need to do to make peace with Ptolemaic Alexandria? Is this because of a possession of a certain settlement? I thought for sure it wouldn't matter after eliminating Koinon Hellenon, but nope, same nonsense. I'm busy trying to conquer the Balkans. A war in the Eastern Mediterranean is a silly distraction and realistically speaking this war of attrition usually did not exist among historical Hellenistic kingdoms, which fought a few set piece field battles or a few fateful sieges and then signed peace treaties with marriage alliances, tribute or minor territorial exchanges. I feel as though the factions in the game should reflect that historical reality.

Any particular reason why you guys thought it was a good idea for them to always be at war, until either side is totally vanquished and annihilated hundreds of turns into the game?

**realm56** · March 09, 2021, 03:50 AM

IIRC, the Antigonidai and The Ptolomaioi can only be at peace if either Antigonos Gonatas or Ptolemaios Philadelphos is dead, these two had quite the antagonistic relationship with each other.

**Roma_Victrix** · March 09, 2021, 03:59 AM

Ah, that does make some sense. I guess I'll just have to wait until about turn 100 then for any change in diplomacy. Good to know, thanks!

**Sar1n** · March 09, 2021, 11:53 AM

Originally Posted by Roma_Victrix

Ah, that does make some sense. I guess I'll just have to wait until about turn 100 then for any change in diplomacy. Good to know, thanks!

Of course, you can accelerate this by orchestrating either one's premature demise....

**eyelurker** · March 09, 2021, 02:33 PM

Originally Posted by Roma_Victrix

Ah, that does make some sense. I guess I'll just have to wait until about turn 100 then for any change in diplomacy. Good to know, thanks!

You can also do it by finishing stop the makedon raid rebel event which basicly require you to conquer territory adjacent to pella and conquer thrace.

After that ptoelamic invasion of pella event kicks in and once you defeat them you can make peace with ptoelamic.

**Roma_Victrix** · March 09, 2021, 03:49 PM

Originally Posted by Sar1n

Of course, you can accelerate this by orchestrating either one's premature demise....

Nah, I'll just let him die of old age. I'm past the Thureophoroi reforms now and he won't even make it to the Thorakitai Reforms at turn 200. He'll be dead within two decades. I can wait, I guess, although the Ptolemies are starting to crumble and I do want them to survive at least until the 100th year anniversary after Alexander's death for roleplay purposes. A noteworthy Hellenistic dynasty should last a good solid century at least.

Originally Posted by eyelurker

You can also do it by finishing stop the makedon raid rebel event which basicly require you to conquer territory adjacent to pella and conquer thrace.

After that ptoelamic invasion of pella event kicks in and once you defeat them you can make peace with ptoelamic.

That's odd, because I already conquered Byzantion in Thrace and Dardoneian in Paeonia (eastern Illyria). There are no more raids on the Kingdom of Makedonia proper in the region around Pella. The Ptolemies never invaded. There a reason for that? Is my script bugged out or are the certain other conditions that stop the Ptolemies from invading? They still held several settlements in the Aegean at the time, in Asia Minor. They could have easily invaded. In either case Antigonos isn't going to live forever. I cannot wait to make peace, though, because the Ptolemies are beset by enemies on all sides now and I think my faction being at war with them is causing their steep decline. If I made peace the pressure would be lifted and the other factions might back off. Even Carthage has moved into Cyrenica in eastern Libya now.

**realm56** · March 09, 2021, 04:20 PM

Originally Posted by Roma_Victrix

That's odd, because I already conquered Byzantion in Thrace and Dardoneian in Paeonia (eastern Illyria). There are no more raids on the Kingdom of Makedonia proper in the region around Pella. The Ptolemies never invaded. There a reason for that? Is my script bugged out or are the certain other conditions that stop the Ptolemies from invading? They still held several settlements in the Aegean at the time, in Asia Minor. They could have easily invaded. In either case Antigonos isn't going to live forever. I cannot wait to make peace, though, because the Ptolemies are beset by enemies on all sides now and I think my faction being at war with them is causing their steep decline. If I made peace the pressure would be lifted and the other factions might back off. Even Carthage has moved into Cyrenica in eastern Libya now.

Do you have a strong garrison in Pella? The Antipartrid pretender will not come out of hiding until Pella is left undefended.

**eyelurker** · March 09, 2021, 08:36 PM

Originally Posted by Roma_Victrix

That's odd, because I already conquered Byzantion in Thrace and Dardoneian in Paeonia (eastern Illyria). There are no more raids on the Kingdom of Makedonia proper in the region around Pella. The Ptolemies never invaded. There a reason for that? Is my script bugged out or are the certain other conditions that stop the Ptolemies from invading? They still held several settlements in the Aegean at the time, in Asia Minor. They could have easily invaded. In either case Antigonos isn't going to live forever. I cannot wait to make peace, though, because the Ptolemies are beset by enemies on all sides now and I think my faction being at war with them is causing their steep decline. If I made peace the pressure would be lifted and the other factions might back off. Even Carthage has moved into Cyrenica in eastern Libya now.

Kabyle and Zikideva (and probably Epidamnos but i forget) must also be conquered. I'm pretty sure garisson in Pella do not affect anything since they always besiege pella as soon as the event script triggered.

Edit : Oops i mean Zikideva(which is moesia) and Kabyle fixed that

**Roma_Victrix** · March 09, 2021, 04:29 PM

Ah! That explains it then. Yes, I had half a stack of troops stationed there for quite a while now, with a family member inside the city too. That probably scared them off then.

**Roma_Victrix** · March 09, 2021, 09:38 PM

Thanks for letting me know. I already had Epidamnos and just took Kabyle, but I have yet to take Zikideva in Moesia. Rather odd I would need to do that just to end a war with the Ptolemies, but I'm not going to argue about it. In fact I was going to do those things anyway.

**Shoebopp** · March 10, 2021, 03:13 PM

Don't forget to take Byzantion as well to trigger the final pretender invasion. The Ptolemies fund mercenary raids from that region

**Roma_Victrix** · March 11, 2021, 05:10 AM

Yes, I already had Byzantion before I moved further north. I'm just coming back to chime in that you actually don't need Zikideva, only Kabyle! I was in possession of Kabyle but not yet Zikideva when I made peace with the Ptolemies. I didn't even need Histrie on the Black Sea, but I took that anyway shortly afterwards.

It was 252 when I was finally able to make peace with them, 20 years into the game. Antigonos Gonatas has several years left in him at least.

**QuintusSertorius** · March 11, 2021, 06:00 AM

Yeah, Gonatas was a popular chap with his fellow Hellenistic rulers...

**Roma_Victrix** · March 12, 2021, 09:22 AM

Originally Posted by QuintusSertorius

Yeah, Gonatas was a popular chap with his fellow Hellenistic rulers...

Well, it took them a while, but after I eventually took Zikideva in Moisia the Ptolemies finally attempted to besiege Pella with their pretender to the throne, Antipatros Etesias. His army didn't even bother to continue it after one turn, turning tail and fleeing with their naval fleet. Fatal mistake! I hunted them down with my significantly bigger armada containing a warship and smaller ancillary fleet. I was then able to crush them at sea with no survivors (maybe some captives just for pretend sake). So much for the Antipatridai!

It's quite clear now: when you take Kabyle, you can make peace with the Ptolemies as Makedonia under Antigonos Gonatas. The moment you take Zikideva, however, the Ptolemies attack you and reignite the war effort. A full decade existed between these two points, by the way, and Gonatas is about to die or retire of old age fairly soon since he is now 68. I noticed you changed his age for the sake of game mechanics, though, since no general lasts beyond age 74 but he was more like 81 years old when he died (320-239 BC). I think a good number of historical figures from classical antiquity lived into their 80s and Seleucus I Nicator was 77 when assassinated, who knows how much longer he would have been king? Maybe consider having generals live until age 80 to 82 instead of 72 to 74.