Anyone here studies Judaism/Hinduism?

[Douchebag]

Sooooooooo, im writing a story and I need some basic knowledge on the 7 layers of Heaven. Can anyone explain the details(in simple words), for each layer and its role?

[sumskilz]

Sooooooooo, im writing a story and I need some basic knowledge on the 7 layers of Heaven. Can anyone explain the details(in simple words), for each layer and its role?

No, not in Judaism, because no such coherent conception exists. This explains the history pretty well:

The idea that the heavens are multiple and stacked one above another was widespread among the ancient cultures of the world. Perhaps this came from a natural tendency to ask what lay above the dome of the sky and to imagine a hierarchy of additional skies in which the gods dwelled. But the number of heavens one finds in the world’s ancient mythologies was not necessarily seven. Lesser and greater numbers were imagined, too. The number of seven, or sometimes eight, first took hold in the Near East and eastern Mediterranean world as a blend of Babylonian astronomy and early Greek science.

It was the Babylonians who first charted astronomically the precise trajectories of the seven visible celestial bodies — the sun, the moon, Mercury, Venus, Mars, Saturn, and Jupiter — that did not move in tandem with the fixed stars; the Greeks first came to the conclusion that each of these bodies must be situated on a circular plane of its own that revolved independently of the others. In his “myth of Er” in “The Republic,” Plato, writing in the fourth-century BCE, imagined the universe as a spinning top, with the earth at its bottom and eight inner wheels (the eighth carrying the fixed stars) rotating above the earth at different speeds. Each of these wheels in effect constituted a separate heaven, with the sides of the top forming the outer limits of the universe that enclosed them all. Eventually, this conception was given a sophisticated mathematical form by second-century C.E. astronomer Ptolemy, and the “Ptolemaic system,” different versions of which posited seven to 11 celestial spheres, prevailed in Europe until overthrown by Copernicus.

Because in Jewish sources the idea of seven heavens is not found in the Bible and first occurs in the early centuries C.E. in the rabbinic literature of Palestine, a country then heavily under the influence of Greek culture, it stands to reason that the rabbis borrowed the idea from the Greeks. They probably settled on seven heavens because of the special importance of the number seven in Jewish tradition — think, for example, of the Sabbath day — and imaginatively peopled each with angels, ranging from the lowest-ranking in the first heaven to the highest-ranking in the seventh.

It is true that, of the names for the seven heavens given by the tractate of Hagigah, all but the first, Vilon (which means “curtain” in rabbinic Hebrew), occurs in the Bible as a term, or part of a term, for God’s dwelling place. The word raki’a, generally translated as “firmament,” is found in the account of Creation in the first chapter of Genesis. Shehakim, which probably originally referred to clouds, is rendered by the King James Bible as “heaven” in the verse from Psalms, “Who in the heaven [ba’shehakim] can be compared unto the Lord.” Zevul means “mansion” or “habitation,” as when Isaiah calls upon God, “Look down from heaven and behold from the habitation of thy holiness [zevul kodshekha],” etc. Yet, in the Bible these are basically all synonyms. Nowhere do we find the idea that each refers to a specific heaven distinct from the others.

This concept we find only in rabbinic literature, where it plays an important role, especially in the early form of Jewish mystical thought known as “Hechalot” or “Palace” mysticism. In the Hechalot tradition, it is the task of the mystical initiate to ascend by meditative techniques through the seven heavens one after another, overcoming angelic challenges in each, and then to pass safely through the seven “palaces” of the seventh heaven in order to reach the base of God’s throne. Similar beliefs, each with a complex angelology, existed among various Gnostic sects in the Roman Empire and had some currency in early Christianity, too, at least to judge by Paul’s remark in Corinthians II that “I knew a man in Christ… [who was] caught up to the third heaven.” From Judaism and/or Christianity the idea also spread to Islam, so that we read in Sura 71 of the Quran, “See you not how Allah has created the seven heavens one above another, and made the moon a light in their midst and made the sun a lamp?”

Except that it wasn't really in the mainstream Rabbinic literature, for the most part it was in the Merkhabah and Hekhalot literature, which was an experiential/non-rational tradition that was a competitor to the more academic mainstream Rabbinical tradition. As a mystical tradition, the interest was in metaphor rather than proposing any sort of coherent cosmological theory. Jewish tradition in general has very little interest in orthodoxy anyway, rather the interest in in orthopraxy. It is proper behavior that matters, while a Jew can believe almost anything they want. Jews haven't even decided whether or not to believe in an afterlife, much less the nature and properties of heaven, or whether or not such a place exists in any literal sense. The saying is "two Jews, three opinions". Although maybe you'll be able to find some Jew giving their opinion with such authority that you assume it's a widely agreed upon view, just know that it isn't.

No idea about Hinduism though, maybe you'll get a better answer there.

[Lord Thesaurian]

No, not in Judaism, because no such coherent conception exists. This explains the history pretty well:

Except that it wasn't really in the mainstream Rabbinic literature, for the most part it was in the Merkhabah and Hekhalot literature, which was an experiential/non-rational tradition that was a competitor to the more academic mainstream Rabbinical tradition. As a mystical tradition, the interest was in metaphor rather than proposing any sort of coherent cosmological theory. Jewish tradition in general has very little interest in orthodoxy anyway, rather the interest in in orthopraxy. It is proper behavior that matters, while a Jew can believe almost anything they want. Jews haven't even decided whether or not to believe in an afterlife, much less the nature and properties of heaven, or whether or not such a place exists in any literal sense. The saying is "two Jews, three opinions". Although maybe you'll be able to find some Jew giving their opinion with such authority that you assume it's a widely agreed upon view, just know that it isn't.

No idea about Hinduism though, maybe you'll get a better answer there.

Am I correct to understand there is no Jewish consensus about an afterlife at all? Jews believe heaven physically exists to the extent God lives there and governs from there, but are undecided as to whether humanity would ever join him there in some form?

[sumskilz]

Am I correct to understand there is no Jewish consensus about an afterlife at all?

Yeah, that's correct. Although there are movements that promote a particular view. For example, some of the Orthodox movements believe humans have an eternal aspect which is a spark of the divine that returns to God after death. The word for this is nəšāmāh, which means "breath" based on Genesis 2:7 in which God breathes life into Adam, ᵓāḏām being literally "man" as in a human being. How much of what we think of as the self is contained within the nəšāmāh isn't usually discussed. As I believe you know, the word nep̄eš (pronounced nefesh) is typically translated as "soul" but means something more like "vitality" and is clearly mortal in a literal reading of the biblical texts.

Jews believe heaven physically exists to the extent God lives there and governs from there, but are undecided as to whether humanity would ever join him there in some form?

Yes, on the latter, but regarding the former, this is how God is described in a literal reading of the biblical texts, but it's not a common way to think of God. The word usually translated as "Heaven" just means "the sky", so modern Jews almost never take it literally as the place where God is. God's name YHWH is a verb. It's the past tense continuous of "to cause to exist", so it is generally held that God is all causality, hence God is everywhere. If you understand the meaning of YHWH, you cannot dispute his existence, only his nature. Spinoza is not considered to be an atheist from a Jewish perspective. The reason he came into conflict with his community was that he argued that God doesn't want anything, God just is. This was a concern not so much because of his belief or lack thereof, but that such a belief could lead people to disregard the Torah, in the sense of the Torah being the way Jews are directed to behave. A more traditional view of God is that God is everywhere within the universe but also the Ein Sof, which is the infinite and uncomprehendable aspect of God.

For Jews who believe in an afterlife, the "place" isn't Heaven but Gan Eden (the Garden of Eden) or Olam HaBa (the World to Come). Although some consider Olam HaBa to be a future corporeal resurrection rather than an afterlife.

[Cyclops]

Long time since I studied either, but as mentioned there's not a clear consensus in Judaism on heaven as regards locale, number and function. I had at first blush thought it was from the Q'ran, but maybe its a common near eastern concept that many religious traditions felt they had to address? Heaven is important as a place in many traditions indeed, and seven is a sacred number in a lot of places too.

Quite often the hierarchy of a religion relies on sacred texts, by their nature behind the times and has to catch up with new concepts as the community develops/imports/adopts them: quite likely the number and function of heaven in most communities has been variable over time and texts reflect official responses to emerging questions based on beliefs not addressed in the source material (the Bible to my mind is full of impact craters from imported ideas affecting religious traditions). I think these updates get labelled as religious reform after the fact.

As for Hinduism, well that's a whole bunch of traditions in which the answer to any question is "yes", "no", "maybe" and "other" "all of the above" and "something else again". If you Google heaven in Hinduism just be prepared for a lot of reading. Your first problem will be to define Hinduism.

From the POV of your position as an author you can use pretty much any source you like and say "inspired by x tradition". If you want a template well there is always the Deities and Demigods supplements in various iterations of D&D.

[Lord Thesaurian]

Yeah, that's correct. Although there are movements that promote a particular view. For example, some of the Orthodox movements believe humans have an eternal aspect which is a spark of the divine that returns to God after death. The word for this is nəšāmāh, which means "breath" based on Genesis 2:7 in which God breathes life into Adam, ᵓāḏām being literally "man" as in a human being. How much of what we think of as the self is contained within the nəšāmāh isn't usually discussed. As I believe you know, the word nep̄eš (pronounced nefesh) is typically translated as "soul" but means something more like "vitality" and is clearly mortal in a literal reading of the biblical texts.

I agree. It’s the main reason I am unable to find a firm Biblical basis for the concept of the immortal soul which Christianity has borrowed from Greco-Roman tradition.

Yes, on the latter, but regarding the former, this is how God is described in a literal reading of the biblical texts, but it's not a common way to think of God. The word usually translated as "Heaven" just means "the sky", so modern Jews almost never take it literally as the place where God is. God's name YHWH is a verb. It's the past tense continuous of "to cause to exist", so it is generally held that God is all causality, hence God is everywhere. If you understand the meaning of YHWH, you cannot dispute his existence, only his nature. Spinoza is not considered to be an atheist from a Jewish perspective. The reason he came into conflict with his community was that he argued that God doesn't want anything, God just is. This was a concern not so much because of his belief or lack thereof, but that such a belief could lead people to disregard the Torah, in the sense of the Torah being the way Jews are directed to behave. A more traditional view of God is that God is everywhere within the universe but also the Ein Sof, which is the infinite and uncomprehendable aspect of God.

For Jews who believe in an afterlife, the "place" isn't Heaven but Gan Eden (the Garden of Eden) or Olam HaBa (the World to Come). Although some consider Olam HaBa to be a future corporeal resurrection rather than an afterlife.

Hm I see the dilemma. Seems like the majority of references to heaven in the OT in relation to God are to illustrate his infinite existence and (God of heaven and the earth below, voice of God from heaven, etc) שָׁמַיִם seems like the main or only word used, and there does seem to be a direct reference to God living there, though I suppose it could be rhetorical; not sure if there are others in a quick search through Strong’s.

And hearken thou to the supplication of thy servant, and of thy people Israel, when they shall pray toward this place: and hear thou in heaven (שָׁמַיִם) thy dwelling place: and when thou hearest, forgive.

While digging I wondered about the differences between the Tanakh and Biblical OT, found this handy chart:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[sumskilz]

Hm I see the dilemma. Seems like the majority of references to heaven in the OT in relation to God are to illustrate his infinite existence and (God of heaven and the earth below, voice of God from heaven, etc) שָׁמַיִם seems like the main or only word used, and there does seem to be a direct reference to God living there, though I suppose it could be rhetorical; not sure if there are others in a quick search through Strong’s.

The word you mention is usually written with the definite article, so הַשָּׁמַ֖יִם, which can be transliterated as hašāmayim. In Genesis 1:1, it's usually translated as "the heavens". A literal translation would be "that of waters". The word māyim (מים) is "water" or "waters" which is always plural in Hebrew. It usually just means "the sky", but "the heavens" also works because the sun, moon, and stars are in it. The etymology is assumed to be based on the fact that the sky is blue, has clouds, and pours water. In I Kings 8:23, it's bašāmayim (בַּשָּׁמַ֣יִם). The first letter indicates bə, which is the preposition for "in", but the vowel underneath indicates "in" has fused with the definite article ha (bə + ha = ba). So you could translate this as "in the sky", or "in the heavens", or literally "in that of waters". Usually it's translated in this verse as "in Heaven", for theological reasons I assume, but "in the heavens" is how one would translate it without any presumptions about the meaning.