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Thread: [DISCUSSION] Disciplinary Procedure Alteration

  1. #1

    Default [DISCUSSION] Disciplinary Procedure Alteration

    In light of the most recent failed amendment (which did go to vote), I have drafted the following "compromise" between what we have and total removal of what we have. All points are suggestions and I am open to alterations and changes.



    If a citizen receives an infraction the Consul may issue a Censure or suspends their citizenship for a duration of three months until the infraction has expired or is revoked.
    If a citizen believes an offense by another citizen is unbecoming citizen, he may petition the Consul to issue a Censure or a Curial warning.
    An Ostrakon is initiated at the discretion of the Consul if a citizen’s behavior is egregious enough to bring before the entire Curia

    If a citizen believes an offense by another citizen is egregious enough to bring before the entire Curia that citizen may initiate an Ostrakon.1

    Footnotes

    Censure is a 6-month probationary Period.
    If a Citizen receives an infraction during the probationary period, the Consul will suspend their citizenship for 3 months.
    If a citizen receives another infraction during their suspension, they must serve the second suspension consecutively.

    When a citizen believes a citizen is actions are unbecoming of citizenship, they shall make a a case via private message to the Consul, who determines if there is any merit.
    A citizen initiates an ostrakon by making a case via private message to the Consul, who determines if an ostrakon has merit. If an ostrakon has merit:
    When the Consul initiates a ostrakon;
    The Consul notifies the defendant and requests a defense
    After a defense is provided, or after one week if no defense is provided, the Consul posts the ostrakon accusation and defense within the Quaestiones Perpetuae
    After three days of discussion the Consul adds a poll lasting seven days to either Dismiss, Revoke Citizenship, or Abstain. A 2/3rds majority of non-abstaining votes is required for revocation.
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  2. #2
    Emperor Commodus's Avatar Worst crops in history.
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    Default Re: [DISCUSSION] Disciplinary Procedure Alteration

    Deja vu. What we have is the most minimum possible by the will of a curia that wanted to minimize a beaurocratic moderation system, with the only lower point being nothing. This is a simplified form of the previous structure, except extra power is offered to the consul and there is apparently no consideration of reach the consul has in applying probation or warning. As much as our glorious king will surely appreciate the sentiment, a problem may arise here immediately.

    The general will of the people appears to be 'forget about it' and weariness on the topic, and so it's a compromise that doesn't seem to have been made with any forward input from key parties interested in the previous talks. I doubt it'll go anywhere. Might be wrong, dunno.

  3. #3
    Iskar's Avatar Insanity with Dignity
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    Default Re: [DISCUSSION] Disciplinary Procedure Alteration

    The main effect of this would be more opportunities for people to VonC the Consul.
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    makawa's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: [DISCUSSION] Disciplinary Procedure Alteration

    More complications, more controversial, I can even forsee amendments to this ammendment, so thinking of the welfare of the curia I support this.
    So, because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth. (Revelation 3:16).

  5. #5

    Default Re: [DISCUSSION] Disciplinary Procedure Alteration

    Opposed.

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    Default Re: [DISCUSSION] Disciplinary Procedure Alteration

    Not a terrible idea, it's probably a step in the right direction - if only a small one.

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    Default Re: [DISCUSSION] Disciplinary Procedure Alteration

    unbecoming of citizenship,
    The specifics of which are?.

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    Nicholas Rush's Avatar The Black Rose
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    Default Re: [DISCUSSION] Disciplinary Procedure Alteration

    Opposed.

    I would think after the last Ostrakon fiasco we would go back to a multi-member review team for Citizen behavior and retribution.


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    makawa's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: [DISCUSSION] Disciplinary Procedure Alteration

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicholas Rush View Post
    a multi-member review team for Citizen behavior and retribution.
    you have described the current ostraka system.
    So, because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth. (Revelation 3:16).

  10. #10
    Iskar's Avatar Insanity with Dignity
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    Default Re: [DISCUSSION] Disciplinary Procedure Alteration

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicholas Rush View Post
    Opposed.

    I would think after the last Ostrakon fiasco we would go back to a multi-member review team for Citizen behavior and retribution.
    That sounds a lot like reckoning and day of judgment. I like it.

    We found a witch, may we burn her?


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    Morticia Iunia Bruti's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: [DISCUSSION] Disciplinary Procedure Alteration

    Before we are busy with formal procedures, should we not first decide, what the material criteria for BEHAVING as a citizen should be?

    Otherwise it seems to be the change from a toothless lion to a toothless tiger for me...
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    Default Re: [DISCUSSION] Disciplinary Procedure Alteration

    Quote Originally Posted by Iskar View Post
    That sounds a lot like reckoning and day of judgment. I like it.

    We found a witch, may we burn her?


    (shamelessly mixing MP tropes here, but whatever...)
    And how do we know she's a witch?

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    Default Re: [DISCUSSION] Disciplinary Procedure Alteration

    Quote Originally Posted by Iskar View Post
    Why do people always have to crop me out of that pic. I was standing right next to them.



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  14. #14

    Default Re: [DISCUSSION] Disciplinary Procedure Alteration

    I am not seeing how this will result in a VonC of the Consul. The least punishment is Censure. The most is exactly what we have now. Who would have an issue with receiving something less than a suspension? Disagreeing with a decision of the Consul is not "abuse of power" by the Consul.

    The Drama is removed from the Ostrakon Instead of it being initiated by a "citizen" it is initiated by moderation infraction.
    In an earlier version I define "egregious." But I felt best to see what others thought "egregious" could mean. Is it two or more infractions. Is it two or more of the same type. Is it at least one infraction is "rudeness" or other impolite behavior brought up in previous discussions?

    if behavior standards are not define, then define them. The scope of the discussion is discipline and therefore such discussion/amendment can be included.
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    Default Re: [DISCUSSION] Disciplinary Procedure Alteration

    The drama is actually that almost nobody applied to the Censor election at that time. It was always the same people who cumulated terms after terms. You can implement all the systems you want, if nobody wants to take the responsability, that's not gonna work.
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    Default Re: [DISCUSSION] Disciplinary Procedure Alteration

    Quote Originally Posted by Morticia Iunia Bruti View Post
    Before we are busy with formal procedures, should we not first decide, what the material criteria for BEHAVING as a citizen should be?

    Otherwise it seems to be the change from a toothless lion to a toothless tiger for me...
    As ever the Curia forgets a guidelines thread that is as close to persistent standards as ever existed. We treat it like it doesn't exist. Doing that when it's right there, I'm afraid the question will always be moot.

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