Vassal thread

[Steward Denethor II]

Do you guys use vassals at all? I am playing as Scotland right now. I managed to be very aggressive early on and took over Britian. A little bit afterwards I marched into Flanders and took that as well. The French were not too happy that I took a region they had the right too but I managed to fight them off. I then fought a few back and forth battles with the French, eventually taking Paris, Rheims and Orleans, although not too easily with their fine cavalry. When I was threatened by the Pope I instead attacked the English in France and wiped them out. Spies opening the gates have been extremely helpful.

Eventually I got France down to one region but got a message to cease hostilities or face excommunication. Then when the mission was about to expire and I was about to attack a fair lass from France came to my door asking for a ceasefire. I said her brother who I had captured in battle and ransomed off would have to accept me as King if they wanted peace. He was not happy at all but begrudgingly accepted.

He has been a loyal vassal for around 6 turns or so, which surprises me because they basically have a full stack. It is mostly militia but has 4 generals. They pay me about 2500 a turn. They also do not seem to want the alliance to end, if I propose breaking it off in diplomacy it is Very Demanding, so I don't.

Since I was at total peace I decided to give the new Pope a lot of gold so he would forgive my sins and call a Crusade on the Moors. Unfortunately my Imperial allies beat me to Seville but I have taken Granada and will get Cordoba this turn. I can't have a meaningful peace with Muslims because of Jihads and them spreading Islam is a pain so I plan to destroy the Moors. Southern Spain and North Africa, however, will be awkward for me to hold since I have few generals and I don't want to adopt. Castile would be splitting my Empire. I am thinking of just taking everything from the Moors and giving the land to my vassal France, in return for their last region in France. They will manage the land and bring it back to Christ, while sending me tribute as well.

Does anyone else use vassals? Since I have thought outside the box I'm really interested in how this will turn out. Hopefully they do not become arrogant like Frenchmen often are and bite the hand of their King!

One note is that it seems if a vassal ends his turn with over 10000 gold, all the money goes to his liege lord. The French have been stuck at 10,000 for awhile now. I wonder how this affects construction and if I could send gifts to help them build Cathedrals.

Since this is a Historical Improvement mod, I think it would be a good idea for the game to encourage vassals and discourage the player from directly running huge Empires.

[Belovèse]

Well, I looks almost like the start of an AAR!
I use vassal when I can and when the settlements are not too big or in an important strategic position. Apart from the historicity, the gold tribute and the feeling of power, the provide nice shielding from neighbouring empires!
Just missed yesterday the opportunity to make serbia my vassal as venice, but I had the choice: that or assassinate their last FM and grab easily the newly rebelled settlements.
Well let's just say he tripped and had a bad fall, what a shame.

[Steward Denethor II]

Yeah I actually did write a couple AAR's many, many years ago. Some of the AAR's here were really good. I was still a young teenager who did not understand interactions too well so mine were not that good, although some people liked them. I was trying to sort of create a story.

I bet if I tried again I'd do a considerably better job since I'm more knowledgeable now.

LOL that's funny! Poor guy... There is less of a point in making a vassal when they are of a different faith, although Orthodox vassals are still manageable for a Catholic faction. Muslims and Pagans can get Crusades called upon and Muslims could call Jihads, so these are poor choices for vassals.

The 10,000 gold limit for vassals actually makes exploiting the game possible. You can gift them a lot of money and they will love you, then at the end of their turn they have to return most of it and they don't even notice! I am not sure if they get access to the gold for 1 turn or not at all. Another thing is that if they are big you can buy their regions and end up getting your money back! It would have been better for vassals to just give 20% or so of their income, instead of having a financial limit.

One thing I was wondering is if vassals are able to build expensive buildings like Cathedrals? 10,000 gold is not enough to build a lot of high end buildings in one turn.

[Belovèse]

I really don't know the details of the mechanic and what they can build or not, so if someone post more info I'll also be interested in the answer!

[Steward Denethor II]

Here is another thing. As the Byzantines (or Romans) on turn 1, you can besiege the Serbians with 2 regiments from Nis. Then send your diplomat immediately to the Serbian general hiding in the woods. Offer them a gift(s) of 100 gold, or offer them map information. To the map information they will respond with Appreciative and say "Give us map information/ Accept or we will attack". You should decline this and your diplomat does not suffer. You can then offer them map information again, repeating this process.

After some diplomatic activity, their priorities will change from Unknown to Peace. This can be 1 or 2 activities, but is sometimes a little more. Then you can demand they become a vassal, and you should probably offer map information so they are more likely to accept. They are happy to accept this offer, and you have a fellow Orthodox vassal without a single battle on your very first turn! I bet they could be a great buffer against the Catholics while you fight the Muslims.

It does not seem to work with Castile and Portugal, however, since there is much less of a power imbalance there.

[george0433]

Here is another thing. As the Byzantines (or Romans) on turn 1, you can besiege the Serbians with 2 regiments from Nis. Then send your diplomat immediately to the Serbian general hiding in the woods. Offer them a gift(s) of 100 gold, or offer them map information. To the map information they will respond with Appreciative and say "Give us map information/ Accept or we will attack". You should decline this and your diplomat does not suffer. You can then offer them map information again, repeating this process.

After some diplomatic activity, their priorities will change from Unknown to Peace. This can be 1 or 2 activities, but is sometimes a little more. Then you can demand they become a vassal, and you should probably offer map information so they are more likely to accept. They are happy to accept this offer, and you have a fellow Orthodox vassal without a single battle on your very first turn! I bet they could be a great buffer against the Catholics while you fight the Muslims.

It does not seem to work with Castile and Portugal, however, since there is much less of a power imbalance there.

I love preserving factions and building an empire with vassals. Keeping htem in this game however is very difficult. Once the vassalized FL kicks the bucket they tend to throw off the yoke and reset all of their diplomatic stances. This always seems to happen once I let my guard down on that front and gift them back their home regions. With the reputation system being so.... so..... sensitive in this mod, I tend just to shoot for large block alliances.