View Poll Results: What shall be done?

Voters
35. You may not vote on this poll
  • Revoke Citizenship

    16 45.71%
  • Dismiss

    13 37.14%
  • Abstain

    6 17.14%
Page 4 of 8 FirstFirst 12345678 LastLast
Results 61 to 80 of 142

Thread: [Ostrakon] Pontifex Maximus

  1. #61

    Default Re: [Ostrakon] Pontifex Maximus

    I do with people actually debating in good faith, which is pretty rare these days. When a response to your post is "you're racist for thinking so" or "you're a maga cultist" the door is more or less closed to anything other than satirizing the other for being memeable.

  2. #62
    chriscase's Avatar Chairman Miao
    Civitate Patrician

    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    5,732

    Default Re: [Ostrakon] Pontifex Maximus

    But isn't the point you made yourself that these are misconceptions about your views? I find it hard to believe you simply *have* to let the misconceptions stand and then satirize them. You appear quite capable of directly answering such accusations and being reasonably convincing. You're doing it now.

    Why is it that mysteries are always about something bad? You never hear there's a mystery, and then it's like, "Who made cookies?"
    - Demetri Martin

  3. #63

    Default Re: [Ostrakon] Pontifex Maximus

    I addressed the original complaint and since then this thread has been bombarded by extremely venemous, often times personally insulting posts or assumptions of my beliefs that are as myriad as they are bizarre to me. I think it would be fair for me to address concerns that are not framed so unfairly. So in the spirit of playing ball, what specific concerns would you like me to address?

  4. #64
    Iskar's Avatar Insanity with Dignity
    Moderator Emeritus

    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Frankfurt, München, somtimes my beloved Rhineland
    Posts
    6,395

    Default Re: [Ostrakon] Pontifex Maximus

    Here goes:
    You encoded the Hitler salute in a post of yours.
    You could have contextualised it, chosen any other less anti-humane message to prove whatever point you might have wanted to make.

    You didn't. Why?
    "Non i titoli illustrano gli uomini, ma gli uomini i titoli." - Niccolo Machiavelli, Discorsi
    "Du musst die Sterne und den Mond enthaupten, und am besten auch den Zar. Die Gestirne werden sich behaupten, aber wahrscheinlich nicht der Zar." - Einstürzende Neubauten, Weil, Weil, Weil

    On an eternal crusade for reason, logics, catholicism and chocolate. Mostly chocolate, though.

    I can heartily recommend the Italian Wars mod by Aneirin.
    In exile, but still under the patronage of the impeccable Aikanár, alongside Aneirin. Humble patron of Cyclops, Frunk and Abdülmecid I.

  5. #65

    Default Re: [Ostrakon] Pontifex Maximus

    The original post of the thread, as I recall, was an attempt to get moderation to initiate a witch hunt style purging of so called white supremacist dog whistles and the such, coded messages and symbols that the racists use to communicate ideas with one another. The existence of anything like that is absurd to me because most racists, if you've ever met a real one, don't particularly care if you know they're racist. I made a post satirizing that concept. The content seemed to be in agreement and to strengthen the satirization of just how absurd the concept is, I did exactly what OP suggested what was happening in order to mock it. The reaction is exactly how I anticipated it would go, what I didn't count on was being put on trial as someone who actually heils Hitler. I find the concept of race obsession to be ridiculous. That means that I openly mock the race obsessed leftists who cannot help themselves but put everyone into their own little color based groups, and it means that I also mock white supremacists or ethnonationalists for the same reason. The main difference between these two groups is that we have no lack of supply of such posters of the former group, but the matter group doesn't have much membership. Get your average white supremacist, neoconfederate or stormfront poster in here and I'll ridicule him just as much.

    The color of people's skin doesn't matter to me. I care more about conduct and ideas than melanin.

  6. #66
    Iskar's Avatar Insanity with Dignity
    Moderator Emeritus

    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Frankfurt, München, somtimes my beloved Rhineland
    Posts
    6,395

    Default Re: [Ostrakon] Pontifex Maximus

    You didn't answer my question, I'm afraid, and veered off into assertions about your character I cannot verify (in contrast to the content of your posts) after the first sentence.

    So again:
    You could have contextualised it, chosen any other less anti-humane message to prove whatever point you might have wanted to make.

    You didn't. Why?
    "Non i titoli illustrano gli uomini, ma gli uomini i titoli." - Niccolo Machiavelli, Discorsi
    "Du musst die Sterne und den Mond enthaupten, und am besten auch den Zar. Die Gestirne werden sich behaupten, aber wahrscheinlich nicht der Zar." - Einstürzende Neubauten, Weil, Weil, Weil

    On an eternal crusade for reason, logics, catholicism and chocolate. Mostly chocolate, though.

    I can heartily recommend the Italian Wars mod by Aneirin.
    In exile, but still under the patronage of the impeccable Aikanár, alongside Aneirin. Humble patron of Cyclops, Frunk and Abdülmecid I.

  7. #67

    Default Re: [Ostrakon] Pontifex Maximus

    Well, I think I did just contextualize it . Because it was the first thing that sprang to mind and a phrase that couldn't have possibly been more of a juxtaposition between the kind of "nefarious white supremacist dog whistles" and something blatantly and shabbily "hidden." If you actually think I stand behind any Nazi ideology I challenge you to find one serious post I've ever made in agreement with the hitler.

  8. #68

    Default Re: [Ostrakon] Pontifex Maximus

    While references to racial issues may be tasteless, this whole debate over Pontifex Maximus' racism rather dilutes the discussion over more obvious offenses.
    The Armenian Issue

  9. #69
    Iskar's Avatar Insanity with Dignity
    Moderator Emeritus

    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Frankfurt, München, somtimes my beloved Rhineland
    Posts
    6,395

    Default Re: [Ostrakon] Pontifex Maximus

    Quote Originally Posted by Pontifex Maximus View Post
    Well, I think I did just contextualize it . Because it was the first thing that sprang to mind and a phrase that couldn't have possibly been more of a juxtaposition between the kind of "nefarious white supremacist dog whistles" and something blatantly and shabbily "hidden." If you actually think I stand behind any Nazi ideology I challenge you to find one serious post I've ever made in agreement with the hitler.
    I don't think you're a nazi, but I do think you showed lack of consideration and respect for the victims of nazism by using a phrase like that lightely to drive home a satirical point. Can you at least see where I am coming from and why I find that post deeply reprehensible, even if your perception of it differs?
    "Non i titoli illustrano gli uomini, ma gli uomini i titoli." - Niccolo Machiavelli, Discorsi
    "Du musst die Sterne und den Mond enthaupten, und am besten auch den Zar. Die Gestirne werden sich behaupten, aber wahrscheinlich nicht der Zar." - Einstürzende Neubauten, Weil, Weil, Weil

    On an eternal crusade for reason, logics, catholicism and chocolate. Mostly chocolate, though.

    I can heartily recommend the Italian Wars mod by Aneirin.
    In exile, but still under the patronage of the impeccable Aikanár, alongside Aneirin. Humble patron of Cyclops, Frunk and Abdülmecid I.

  10. #70

    Default Re: [Ostrakon] Pontifex Maximus

    Yes I can; but the caveat I must add is that the best way I know to deprive the evil NSDAP is to mock them into oblivion.

    edit - nvm, edited in order to avoid any accusation I'm racist by opposing Japanese imperialism.
    Last edited by Pontifex Maximus; January 28, 2021 at 07:11 PM.

  11. #71
    Lifthrasir's Avatar "Capre" Dunkerquois
    Patrician Moderator Emeritus

    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    City of Jan Baert
    Posts
    13,950
    Blog Entries
    4

    Default Re: [Ostrakon] Pontifex Maximus

    Quote Originally Posted by sumskilz View Post
    The comment was ignorant, but being culture based, it wasn't racialist. From what I've seen, negative generalizations based on culture tend not to be considered violations of the ToS unless they are against groups that have particularly suffered from persecution in recent history. Feel free to consider a one off negative generalization about "Gypsy culture" as a strike against him, but what I was actually referring to is his consistent opposition to race playing a role in politics or policy.
    Come on! You're playing with words
    In any case, that's not point here. I honestly don't care what Ponti's political views are, should I share them or not. The point here, as already hightlighted, is to decide if his posting behaviour and, most of all, his attitude towards other members make him still worthy for citizenry.
    Under the patronage of Flinn, proud patron of Jadli, from the Heresy Vault of the Imperial House of Hader

  12. #72

    Default Re: [Ostrakon] Pontifex Maximus

    Quote Originally Posted by Lifthrasir View Post
    Come on! You're playing with words
    Not at all, "race" and "culture" are simply not synonyms, despite attempts by various racialist ideologies to conflate the two.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lifthrasir View Post
    In any case, that's not point here. I honestly don't care what Ponti's political views are...
    You seem to be reacting emotively with very little sense of what my point actually is. Some far-fetched allegations have been made. They are far-fetched precisely because they are so inconsistent with the political views Ponti has demonstrated over the years.
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


  13. #73
    King Athelstan's Avatar The Wheel Weaves
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Nidaros
    Posts
    6,771
    Blog Entries
    8

    Default Re: [Ostrakon] Pontifex Maximus

    Poll added.
    Proudly under the patronage of General Brewster of the Imperial House of Hader
    Proud patron of 4zumi, Akar, CommodusIV ,Swaeft
    and Peaman






  14. #74
    Gaius Baltar's Avatar Old gods die hard
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    campus Martis
    Posts
    7,587
    Blog Entries
    13

    Default Re: [Ostrakon] Pontifex Maximus

    Voted

    ​​
    Pillaging and Plundering since 2006

    The House of Baltar

    Neither is this the dawn from the east, nor is a dragon flying above, nor are the gables of this hall aflame. Nay, mortal enemies approach in ready armour. Ravens are calling, wolves are howling, spear clashes and shield answers



  15. #75
    Lifthrasir's Avatar "Capre" Dunkerquois
    Patrician Moderator Emeritus

    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    City of Jan Baert
    Posts
    13,950
    Blog Entries
    4

    Default Re: [Ostrakon] Pontifex Maximus

    Quote Originally Posted by sumskilz View Post
    Not at all, "race" and "culture" are simply not synonyms, despite attempts by various racialist ideologies to conflate the two.
    Considering this, do you really think that Ponti was referring to the culture rather to the ethnic group? But again, that's not the point here.

    Quote Originally Posted by sumskilz View Post
    You seem to be reacting emotively with very little sense of what my point actually is. Some far-fetched allegations have been made. They are far-fetched precisely because they are so inconsistent with the political views Ponti has demonstrated over the years.
    Actually, I don't and you really don't know how I can react "emotively".
    And as it seems I haven't been enough clear, let me borrow the words from Halie, which summarize perfectly my point:
    Quote Originally Posted by Halie Satanus View Post
    ...
    What citizens should be voting on is whether Ponti's behaviour brings citizenship into disrepute. It's really that simple.
    Under the patronage of Flinn, proud patron of Jadli, from the Heresy Vault of the Imperial House of Hader

  16. #76
    Leonardo's Avatar Reborn Old Timer
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Southern Sweden
    Posts
    5,245

    Default Re: [Ostrakon] Pontifex Maximus

    Voted.
    Under patronage of General Brewster of the Imperial House of Hader.





    How to make Morrowind less buggy for new players - Of course every player may find it useful.

  17. #77

    Default Re: [Ostrakon] Pontifex Maximus

    Quote Originally Posted by Lifthrasir View Post
    Considering this, do you really think that Ponti was referring to the culture rather to the ethnic group?
    Yes, obviously he was referring to the culture of an ethnic group rather than their ancestry, or genetics, or phenotype. Clearly it was a reaction to the negative interactions he had with some members of that ethnic group. I don't condone making sweeping negative and reductive generalizations about the culture of an entire group based on the actions of some members of that group, but such generalizations are fairly common in the political sections of the site, where they tend to draw little to no condemnation if they're worded mildly and not about groups who have suffered significant recent persecution. I recently criticized another poster doing just that in the Mudpit, and in that case as well, I'm certain race was not a factor.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lifthrasir View Post
    But again, that's not the point here.
    Considering your interaction with me in this thread started with an interjection on my response to another poster's argument, you don't get to decide what the point is here.

    Everyone is free to decide their vote based on their own perspective and rationale.
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


  18. #78
    Sir Adrian's Avatar the Imperishable
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Nehekhara
    Posts
    17,363

    Default Re: [Ostrakon] Pontifex Maximus

    Quote Originally Posted by Lifthrasir View Post
    Considering this, do you really think that Ponti was referring to the culture rather to the ethnic group? But again, that's not the point here.
    Well he does mention gypsy culture specifically all throughout the infracted post.
    Under the patronage of Pie the Inkster Click here to find a hidden gem on the forum!


  19. #79

    Default Re: [Ostrakon] Pontifex Maximus

    How many more insults, harassment, and downright brutish behavior must I be subjected to?

  20. #80
    TheDarkKnight's Avatar Compliance will be rewarded
    Moderator Emeritus Content Emeritus Administrator Emeritus

    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    The good (not South) part of the USA
    Posts
    11,632
    Blog Entries
    12

    Default Re: [Ostrakon] Pontifex Maximus

    Opposed.

    This is not worth an Ostrakon.
    Things I trust more than American conservatives:

    Drinks from Bill Cosby, Flint Michigan tap water, Plane rides from Al Qaeda, Anything on the menu at Chipotle, Medical procedures from Mengele

Page 4 of 8 FirstFirst 12345678 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •