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Thread: President Biden's first term in office

  1. #1041
    alhoon's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: President Biden's first year in office

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    Indeed. I kinda admire the system American oligarchy has got going for itself. People can vote for whoever they want to represent them (which always comes down to whoever each of of the two party picks), that person can promise literally anything, but upon coming into the office can just ignore own promises entirely and focus on working for the interests of the oligarchy, then if/when he loses next election oligarchy can just pick another one from opposing party and then it looks like its people's fault for electing such candidates and not system's fault at all, isn't democracy wonderful?
    Yes and it has worked quite well. Once a while, the people give the system a shock to remind the elites that they should also look after the common people.
    Thus, the standard of living, the happiness indices, literacy, health indices etc have an upwards trend from 19th century onwards.
    You can bemoan all the horrors of the current system but life in 2021 is better than it was in 1921, and life in 1921 was better than in 1821.

    And that's thanks to the elites being forced by the system of democracy to also look after the little people. Yes, the elite make x100 more than what they did in 1921 while the low economic classes make x3 what they did in 1921. Is it bad? Yes.
    But at least, the low economic classes make x3 what they did 100 years ago.
    Last edited by alhoon; August 04, 2021 at 09:38 AM.
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  2. #1042

    Default Re: President Biden's first year in office

    Also, income inequality isn’t all it’s cracked up to be in the US:

    We explore the concentration of wealth among households ages 40 to 59 and find that (1) including DB pension and Social Security results in markedly lower measures of wealth concentration and (2) trends toward higher wealth inequality over time, while moderated, are still present. Simulation exercises show that reductions in Social Security benefits significantly increase wealth concentration for the youngest birth-year cohorts.

    https://lindsayjacobs.github.io/pape...pdf?mod=ANLink
    Recent influential work finds large increases in inequality in the U.S. based on measures of wealth concentration that notably exclude the value of social insurance programs. This paper revisits this conclusion by incorporating Social Security retirement benefits into measures of wealth inequality. We find that top wealth shares have not increased in the last three decades when Social Security is properly accounted for. This finding is robust to assumptions about how taxes and benefits may change in response to system financing concerns.

    https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers....668&mod=ANLink
    Of these facts there cannot be any shadow of doubt: for instance, that civil society was renovated in every part by Christian institutions; that in the strength of that renewal the human race was lifted up to better things-nay, that it was brought back from death to life, and to so excellent a life that nothing more perfect had been known before, or will come to be known in the ages that have yet to be. - Pope Leo XIII

  3. #1043

    Default Re: President Biden's first year in office

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    Yes and it has worked quite well. Once a while, the people give the system a shock to remind the elites that they should also look after the common people.
    Thus, the standard of living, the happiness indices, literacy, health indices etc have an upwards trend from 19th century onwards.
    You can bemoan all the horrors of the current system but life in 2021 is better than it was in 1921, and life in 1921 was better than in 1821.

    And that's thanks to the elites being forced by the system of democracy to also look after the little people. Yes, the elite make x100 more than what they did in 1921 while the low economic classes make x3 what they did in 1921. Is it bad? Yes.
    But at least, the low economic classes make x3 what they did 100 years ago.
    Life is better or maybe we are just conditioned to assume that it is better? Modern average wage worker works more, is taxed more and rests less then an average medieval peasant.
    Heck, even in comparison to 1970s we are worse of, one HS graduate could afford a house, two vehicles and feed whole family off one income back then, today this sounds like Sci-Fi. Not to mention cheap college/university tuitions.
    Even assuming that it is better (objectively it is not), correlation doesn't mean causation. Almost every aspect of high living standards is a product of technological progress, which in some aspects can be even argued, occurs not because, but despite the efforts of the government. Just look at how US government's history of legislating to prevent newer technologies to threaten already existing domestic industries, especially when it comes to energy sector.
    Democracy simply doesn't "force" elites to look for people's interests. It is there to create an aura of legitimacy for the elites and to prevent disruption from those elites enriching themselves at the expense of everyone else.

  4. #1044
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    Default Re: President Biden's first year in office

    Remember to keep the discussion impersonal.

    Why is it that mysteries are always about something bad? You never hear there's a mystery, and then it's like, "Who made cookies?"
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  5. #1045
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    Default Re: President Biden's first year in office

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    Democracy simply doesn't "force" elites to look for people's interests. It is there to create an aura of legitimacy for the elites and to prevent disruption from those elites enriching themselves at the expense of everyone else.
    The way the elites have to remain in power and prevent disruption in democracy, is look out for people's interests. If they get too far, a Trump or Johnson is elected and reminds them that they can get away with just so much. Both Trump and Johnson were horrible, but they were not the systemic candidates. They were the warning shots. They reminded everyone, including "We the People" that there are other options, that the system in place gives the people the power to bring new elites in power with a bloodless change of regime. So, the current elites should play nice, or at least nicer.



    The elites were always enriching themselves at the expense of everyone else, that's why they are elites.
    But in the current system there's much more upwards mobility than when you have a feudal society or when you have authoritarian forms of Government (like the many hardcore dictatorships around the world - leftwing or rightwing). So, you have self-made multi-millionaires. Oprah is a rugs to riches story and she's not the only one.
    Furthermore, in the current system of "an aura of legitimacy" through presenting you similar-agenda candidates and telling you to choose what interests you support ... most people agree to a large degree with the choices Heathen Hammer. They may be right or wrong and they probably have very different priorities than you. But they are given a choice between "System" and "System Change". In much of the west the people choose the "System" because they're content enough.
    In USA, the parties rely on the average joe to pick the candidates. In multi-party countries, the small parties that get in coalitions influence the agenda. That YOU disagree with the vision the elites have for the country doesn't mean the majority disagrees.
    If they did, they would send warning shots. THere are enough crazies and populists and clowns out there, hanging in the periphery of the system ready to be the new elites. So the current elites HAVE TO play nicer.

    Back in the 19th century, the employees were at the complete mercy of the employer. There was no 8h workday, there was no minimum wage, there was no recompense if you lost fingers in the dangerous job and couldn't work anymore. The factory owner was living the life while the employers were enjoying much less privileges than they do today, with crushing work-hours and insecurity that they were one mistake away from being thrown to the streets. And that mistake didn't have to be their own. If their superior made a mistake that required the factory to close, the workers would lose their jobs. With no severance pay.

    In comparison to 1970s, USA is calmer, more powerful, more prosperous and more egalitarian. I honestly doubt that the average 1970s graduate could afford a house, two vehicles and feed a whole family off one white collar job or even a blue collar job. There were certainly some blue collar workers that made a lot of money in the 1970s and there are many Blue collar jobs that pay well in 2020s. I don't see a reason why the technician that fixes your AC in 2020 would be worse paid than in the 1970s.
    What is different is that your family would want more things than in the 1970s. Your daughter would want a new iphone. Your son would require a much more expensive student loan. Your car costs more. I don't disagree with those. BUT:
    Your daughter has an iphone in case she needs to call you to pick her up when the school bus broke down. Your son will receive a much better education than in 1970s (except if you send him to a progressive castle to be 're-educated' to a multi-gendered, pink-haired, vegetarian weirdo). Your car is faster, safer and more efficient.
    Last edited by alhoon; August 04, 2021 at 08:09 PM.
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  6. #1046
    antaeus's Avatar Cool and normal
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    Default Re: President Biden's first year in office

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    In comparison to 1970s, USA is calmer, more powerful, more prosperous and more egalitarian. I honestly doubt that the average 1970s graduate could afford a house, two vehicles and feed a whole family off one white collar job or even a blue collar job.
    I can't speak for the US, but that was indeed the case in much of the Anglosphere. My parents bought their first house in Australia on a construction apprentice and part time retail assistant wage, with a couple of years of saving, as late teenagers. My partner's parents did the same from a similar income bracket from Manchester in the UK.

    But I also think that is not quite the right approach to make to measuring intergenerational wellbeing. I have visited 40 countries, mostly on student and retail income, my parents didn't have that opportunity. Wellbeing measures and purchasing power are very generationally subjective. Which I guess, is also your point.
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  7. #1047
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    Default Re: President Biden's first year in office

    Indeed. My OTHER point is:
    Nobody from the progressives here helps me find an appropriate demeaning name for DeSantis.
    Bidet's advice that masks are no longer needed for the vaccinated cost thousands of lives. DeSantis' suggestion to go unmasked in schools would be likewise bad and as stupid. He deserves a similarly insulting name.
    alhoon is not a member of the infamous Hoons: a (fictional) nazi-sympathizer KKK clan. Of course, no Hoon would openly admit affiliation to the uninitiated.
    "Angry Uncle Gordon" describes me well.
    _______________________________________________________
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    Developer of Causa Belli submod for Darthmod, headed by Hammeredalways and a ton of other people.
    Developer of LtC: Random maps submod for Lands to Conquer (that brings a multitude of random maps and other features).

  8. #1048

    Default Re: President Biden's first year in office

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    The way the elites have to remain in power and prevent disruption in democracy, is look out for people's interests. If they get too far, a Trump or Johnson is elected and reminds them that they can get away with just so much. Both Trump and Johnson were horrible, but they were not the systemic candidates. They were the warning shots. They reminded everyone, including "We the People" that there are other options, that the system in place gives the people the power to bring new elites in power with a bloodless change of regime. So, the current elites should play nice, or at least nicer.



    The elites were always enriching themselves at the expense of everyone else, that's why they are elites.
    But in the current system there's much more upwards mobility than when you have a feudal society or when you have authoritarian forms of Government (like the many hardcore dictatorships around the world - leftwing or rightwing). So, you have self-made multi-millionaires. Oprah is a rugs to riches story and she's not the only one.
    Furthermore, in the current system of "an aura of legitimacy" through presenting you similar-agenda candidates and telling you to choose what interests you support ... most people agree to a large degree with the choices Heathen Hammer. They may be right or wrong and they probably have very different priorities than you. But they are given a choice between "System" and "System Change". In much of the west the people choose the "System" because they're content enough.
    In USA, the parties rely on the average joe to pick the candidates. In multi-party countries, the small parties that get in coalitions influence the agenda. That YOU disagree with the vision the elites have for the country doesn't mean the majority disagrees.
    If they did, they would send warning shots. THere are enough crazies and populists and clowns out there, hanging in the periphery of the system ready to be the new elites. So the current elites HAVE TO play nicer.

    Back in the 19th century, the employees were at the complete mercy of the employer. There was no 8h workday, there was no minimum wage, there was no recompense if you lost fingers in the dangerous job and couldn't work anymore. The factory owner was living the life while the employers were enjoying much less privileges than they do today, with crushing work-hours and insecurity that they were one mistake away from being thrown to the streets. And that mistake didn't have to be their own. If their superior made a mistake that required the factory to close, the workers would lose their jobs. With no severance pay.

    In comparison to 1970s, USA is calmer, more powerful, more prosperous and more egalitarian. I honestly doubt that the average 1970s graduate could afford a house, two vehicles and feed a whole family off one white collar job or even a blue collar job. There were certainly some blue collar workers that made a lot of money in the 1970s and there are many Blue collar jobs that pay well in 2020s. I don't see a reason why the technician that fixes your AC in 2020 would be worse paid than in the 1970s.
    What is different is that your family would want more things than in the 1970s. Your daughter would want a new iphone. Your son would require a much more expensive student loan. Your car costs more. I don't disagree with those. BUT:
    Your daughter has an iphone in case she needs to call you to pick her up when the school bus broke down. Your son will receive a much better education than in 1970s (except if you send him to a progressive castle to be 're-educated' to a multi-gendered, pink-haired, vegetarian weirdo). Your car is faster, safer and more efficient.
    Not sure about Johnson, but if Trump was a warning shot, he clearly was never heard, as elites seem to double down on reasons why Trump got elected in the first place.

    Upward mobility was present in every type of recent regime from modern "liberal democracies" to fascist and communist dictatorships of past century. It is certainly not something that makes the upper class more legitimate and largely is limited. Few and in between rags to riches people within the elites are heavily outnumbered by people who simply inherited their wealth or had connections to succeed. Most elections don't provide people with "system change" choice. You can vote for two sides of uniparty, but you can't vote against Blackrock or Vanguard who are in far more control then those sides, which is my point why democracy is largely a farce. In USA and most of West, you don't get to choose who will be on the ballot. That YOU agree with vision of the elites doesn't mean that majority does. There is simply no outlet to voice discontent, since elections are nothing more then choice of which representatives of the elites would you like to pick, but you can't pick between elites themselves.

    I think we can all agree that most of Americans are worse off now, then in 1970s. Average HS graduate could afford a house back then, now he can't, which is the point Doesnb't matter that US is now more "powerful" if you can't buy a house, and egalitarianism is worth nothing if 60% of your income is stolen to fund megacorporations, foreign wars and welfare to unemployed people who can just vote for whoever gives them welfare. Post-secondary education costs weren't artificially inflated back then either, same with healthcare.

    I think the roots of the problem is that corporations and elites influence politics too much to the point where system is no longer truly democratic as voice of a lobbyist far outweighs voice of anyone else. We need some kind of caste system, that would prevent bankers and corporate CEOs from exerting too much political influence. I think finance class needs to lose some rights. Hindu caste system comes to mind, where merchants and tradesmen were forbidden from interacting with royal people.

  9. #1049
    alhoon's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: President Biden's first year in office

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    Not sure about Johnson, but if Trump was a warning shot, he clearly was never heard, as elites seem to double down on reasons why Trump got elected in the first place.

    Upward mobility was present in every type of recent regime from modern "liberal democracies" to fascist and communist dictatorships of past century. It is certainly not something that makes the upper class more legitimate and largely is limited. Few and in between rags to riches people within the elites are heavily outnumbered by people who simply inherited their wealth or had connections to succeed. Most elections don't provide people with "system change" choice. You can vote for two sides of uniparty, but you can't vote against Blackrock or Vanguard who are in far more control then those sides, which is my point why democracy is largely a farce. In USA and most of West, you don't get to choose who will be on the ballot. That YOU agree with vision of the elites doesn't mean that majority does. There is simply no outlet to voice discontent, since elections are nothing more then choice of which representatives of the elites would you like to pick, but you can't pick between elites themselves.

    I think we can all agree that most of Americans are worse off now, then in 1970s. Average HS graduate could afford a house back then, now he can't, which is the point Doesnb't matter that US is now more "powerful" if you can't buy a house, and egalitarianism is worth nothing if 60% of your income is stolen to fund megacorporations, foreign wars and welfare to unemployed people who can just vote for whoever gives them welfare. Post-secondary education costs weren't artificially inflated back then either, same with healthcare.

    I think the roots of the problem is that corporations and elites influence politics too much to the point where system is no longer truly democratic as voice of a lobbyist far outweighs voice of anyone else. We need some kind of caste system, that would prevent bankers and corporate CEOs from exerting too much political influence. I think finance class needs to lose some rights. Hindu caste system comes to mind, where merchants and tradesmen were forbidden from interacting with royal people.
    I agree the warning shot was ignored, so another shock would come.

    What I mean with the "system change" choice is simple: If things get too bad in USA, and I mean actually bad, the people will vote for a 3rd party. You will see Trump's party or the Progressive-wing-of-dems party splitting off and creating another party or the Libertarians or communists getting senators and winning state governors. It can happen and it has happened. That's what I mean with the ability to change the system.
    What would that lead to? Well, to a different generation of elites in 20 years.

    I honestly would not want to leave in a USA that got so traumatized that voted for the Squad-party or the Trump party or the Communist Party or the Libertarians. I think most people would, and that's the reason those wings stay with the larger parties or trend at 0.5%.

    "I think we can all agree that most of Americans are worse off now, then in 1970s. "
    I strongly disagree and I disagree that the average HS graduate is worse off now than in the 1970s. I don't think that the Average HS graduate in the 1970s could afford to support a family, own a house and two cars in the 1970s.





    "I think the roots of the problem is that corporations and elites influence politics too much to the point where system is no longer truly democratic as voice of a lobbyist far outweighs voice of anyone else. "
    I 100% agree. I completely agree!

    "We need some kind of caste system, that would prevent bankers and corporate CEOs from exerting too much political influence. I think finance class needs to lose some rights. Hindu caste system comes to mind, where merchants and tradesmen were forbidden from interacting with royal people."
    That system exists and we don't use it. Nobody forces you to vote for the politicians that get money from the CEOs. If anything, Trump was elected WITHOUT the money from the Superpacks. Sanders nearly got the nomination WITHOUT the money of the Superpacks and he was a horrific nominee (another warning shot, this time for the democrats).
    A system as you describe, would simply have other people become elites. Like the generals in pre-Erdogan Turkey or the clerics in middle East.

    The solution IMO is different:
    Step 1: Outlaw lobbying.
    In Greece, it is illegal for lobbies to exist. They do exist, unofficially and they also exert too much power, but that's because the CEOs are too rich and our country is too small and not too powerful. But you can't have a representative of the banking lobby gathering money for the politician. Nope. They find other ways to do it, from legal loopholes to illegal donations, but lobbies are illegal.
    Of course, branches DO NEED representation. I.e. nothing stops the bankers from having a couple of guys going on TV or on newspapers or meet with politicians and tell them "the bankers believe this". And that is right because they need representation too. What they can't do is say "so, we will fund your campaign with XXX millions if you go on air and support us."

    Step 2: Put Upper limits on campaign donations, but personal AND total.
    Simply put, pass state laws and federal laws that make it illegal for a house candidate to spend more than XXX in the district or a senate candidate or governor candidate to spend more that YYY in the state.

    For example, from here, we see the top 10 out of 33-34 most expensive senate races. Well, divide that by 3 and put that as limit for the state. A candidate (for federal, senate or governor) can spend up to say 32M$ in Michigan.

    Now, if one wants to have 30 mins of TV ads and go for a board-add blitz before the elections or hire more people or something that's his decision. If you spend that limited money better, you deserve to be elected IMO.

    Step 3: Do what Trump suggested: Block people in the executive government from moving to positions in the industry within 5 years. Block CEOs like Halliburton's Cheney from moving to the executive government within 5 years. If the PotUS wants consultants from the oil industry, he can hire them as consultants, not get them elected or give them actual power.

    Step 4: Educate the voters.



    Those would very much help with the budding oligarchy.
    Last edited by alhoon; August 05, 2021 at 02:06 PM.
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  10. #1050
    Sir Adrian's Avatar the Imperishable
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    Default Re: President Biden's first year in office

    If you can achieve step 4 in an unbiased and efficient manner that is accepted by all sides there is a Nobel prize waiting for you. (Mostly) Educated voting and civic initiative is something no democracy has ever managed to achieve.

    As for a 3rd party, unless the moderate republicans and moderate democrats split off and create a new middle of the road party, that's never happening. The trumpists and wokesters will continue the process of taking over and assimilating their respective party, which is going rather swimmingly for them. There is no way they are breaking off, they lack the creativity and industriousness to start new parties. Meanwhile I doubt the euro-liberal Libertarian Party or the "less palatable same democratic party in a different hat" Greens are going to gain any traction within our lifetimes.
    Last edited by Sir Adrian; August 05, 2021 at 07:19 PM.
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  11. #1051

    Default Re: President Biden's first year in office

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    I agree the warning shot was ignored, so another shock would come.
    I 100% agree. Next one is probably going to be their last one too.
    What I mean with the "system change" choice is simple: If things get too bad in USA, and I mean actually bad, the people will vote for a 3rd party. You will see Trump's party or the Progressive-wing-of-dems party splitting off and creating another party or the Libertarians or communists getting senators and winning state governors. It can happen and it has happened. That's what I mean with the ability to change the system.
    What would that lead to? Well, to a different generation of elites in 20 years.

    I honestly would not want to leave in a USA that got so traumatized that voted for the Squad-party or the Trump party or the Communist Party or the Libertarians. I think most people would, and that's the reason those wings stay with the larger parties or trend at 0.5%.
    I don't think it would work that way. Giving vote to Libertarians will result with less libertarian outcome, as Democrats outvote GOP and push for more illiberal laws, in the same way voting Communist in all likelihood will only make the GOP stronger.

    I strongly disagree and I disagree that the average HS graduate is worse off now than in the 1970s. I don't think that the Average HS graduate in the 1970s could afford to support a family, own a house and two cars in the 1970s.
    In general sense of things this was the case.
    Decades of neoliberalism since 80s sure did a number on purchasing power of an average American. Americans today have much higher living costs, while their incomes stagnated, as the government figured out a lifehack of mass-importing cheap labor from third world countries and outsourcing to there too (where that cheap labor also has no human rights so you can cut SO many corners! ), which is much cheaper then paying living wages for domestic workers that have minimal wages, unions and rights.
    They want to eliminate house ownership altogether - as it would turn majority of population into literal modern-day version of serfs.
    Elites don't want you to have good quality of life. Then need you impoverished and begging for any job.
    "I think the roots of the problem is that corporations and elites influence politics too much to the point where system is no longer truly democratic as voice of a lobbyist far outweighs voice of anyone else. "
    I 100% agree. I completely agree!

    "We need some kind of caste system, that would prevent bankers and corporate CEOs from exerting too much political influence. I think finance class needs to lose some rights. Hindu caste system comes to mind, where merchants and tradesmen were forbidden from interacting with royal people."
    That system exists and we don't use it. Nobody forces you to vote for the politicians that get money from the CEOs. If anything, Trump was elected WITHOUT the money from the Superpacks. Sanders nearly got the nomination WITHOUT the money of the Superpacks and he was a horrific nominee (another warning shot, this time for the democrats).
    A system as you describe, would simply have other people become elites. Like the generals in pre-Erdogan Turkey or the clerics in middle East.

    The solution IMO is different:
    Step 1: Outlaw lobbying.
    In Greece, it is illegal for lobbies to exist. They do exist, unofficially and they also exert too much power, but that's because the CEOs are too rich and our country is too small and not too powerful. But you can't have a representative of the banking lobby gathering money for the politician. Nope. They find other ways to do it, from legal loopholes to illegal donations, but lobbies are illegal.
    Of course, branches DO NEED representation. I.e. nothing stops the bankers from having a couple of guys going on TV or on newspapers or meet with politicians and tell them "the bankers believe this". And that is right because they need representation too. What they can't do is say "so, we will fund your campaign with XXX millions if you go on air and support us."

    Step 2: Put Upper limits on campaign donations, but personal AND total.
    Simply put, pass state laws and federal laws that make it illegal for a house candidate to spend more than XXX in the district or a senate candidate or governor candidate to spend more that YYY in the state.

    For example, from here, we see the top 10 out of 33-34 most expensive senate races. Well, divide that by 3 and put that as limit for the state. A candidate (for federal, senate or governor) can spend up to say 32M$ in Michigan.

    Now, if one wants to have 30 mins of TV ads and go for a board-add blitz before the elections or hire more people or something that's his decision. If you spend that limited money better, you deserve to be elected IMO.

    Step 3: Do what Trump suggested: Block people in the executive government from moving to positions in the industry within 5 years. Block CEOs like Halliburton's Cheney from moving to the executive government within 5 years. If the PotUS wants consultants from the oil industry, he can hire them as consultants, not get them elected or give them actual power.

    Step 4: Educate the voters.
    .
    I 100% agree.
    However, at this point we are looking at a bottleneck - who would implement those laws? Politicians certainly don't want to, it would ruin their gravy train. Trump tried it and they had to pull every lever from conspiring with foreign dictatorships to committing massive electoral fraud "fortifying elections" to stop him. You can't implement such changes without significant degree of political agency, which majority of Americans don't have, as politics are already dominated by megacorporations and their pocket politicians and pocket media.
    It can't be accomplished without a revolution of sorts.
    Last edited by Heathen Hammer; August 06, 2021 at 09:21 AM.

  12. #1052
    irontaino's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: President Biden's first year in office

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    I 100% agree. Next one is probably going to be their last one too.

    I don't think it would work that way. Giving vote to Libertarians will result with less libertarian outcome, as Democrats outvote GOP and push for more illiberal laws, in the same way voting Communist in all likelihood will only make the GOP stronger.


    In general sense of things this was the case.
    Decades of neoliberalism since 80s sure did a number on purchasing power of an average American. Americans today have much higher living costs, while their incomes stagnated, as the government figured out a lifehack of mass-importing cheap labor from third world countries and outsourcing to there too (where that cheap labor also has no human rights so you can cut SO many corners! ), which is much cheaper then paying living wages for domestic workers that have minimal wages, unions and rights.
    They want to eliminate house ownership altogether - as it would turn majority of population into literal modern-day version of serfs.
    Elites don't want you to have good quality of life. Then need you impoverished and begging for any job.

    I 100% agree.
    However, at this point we are looking at a bottleneck - who would implement those laws? Politicians certainly don't want to, it would ruin their gravy train. Trump tried it and they had to pull every lever from conspiring with foreign dictatorships to committing massive electoral fraud "fortifying elections" to stop him. You can't implement such changes without significant degree of political agency, which majority of Americans don't have, as politics are already dominated by megacorporations and their pocket politicians and pocket media.
    It can't be accomplished without a revolution of sorts.
    I do find it funny that you actually think Trump tried to do anything other than grift money from his followers and lick the shoes of dictators.
    Fact:Apples taste good, and you can throw them at people if you're being attacked
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  13. #1053

    Default Re: President Biden's first year in office

    Quote Originally Posted by irontaino View Post
    I do find it funny that you actually think Trump tried to do anything other than grift money from his followers and lick the shoes of dictators.
    They wouldn't spend billions on media campaigns against someone who isn't a threat to them. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

  14. #1054
    irontaino's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: President Biden's first year in office

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    They wouldn't spend billions on media campaigns against someone who isn't a threat to them. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    Nah, he was pretty much just a run of the mill conservative, the difference being he was all bluster, no substance. He fell in line pretty quickly.
    Fact:Apples taste good, and you can throw them at people if you're being attacked
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  15. #1055

    Default Re: President Biden's first year in office

    Quote Originally Posted by irontaino View Post
    Nah, he was pretty much just a run of the mill conservative, the difference being he was all bluster, no substance. He fell in line pretty quickly.
    If that was the case we wouldn't hear "Orange man bad" from every corner.
    Trump was a threat or was perceived as a threat by the establishment, which is my point.
    I don't care who damages the establishment as long as it is being damaged.

  16. #1056
    irontaino's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: President Biden's first year in office

    He didn't damage or threaten the establishment, he cozied right up to them. The fact that he's a racist with a big mouth who lied through his teeth literally every time he opened his mouth and was prone to temper tantrums was what turned most people other than the cultists off to him.
    Fact:Apples taste good, and you can throw them at people if you're being attacked
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  17. #1057

    Default Re: President Biden's first year in office

    They wouldn't spend millions(or realistically even billions) on seething journos to smear Trump if he wasn't a threat to the establishment lol. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    It seems that establishment doesn't like people advocating for interests of working class, especially if it is not a controlled opposition like "democratic socialist" lunatics.

  18. #1058
    irontaino's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: President Biden's first year in office

    Lol, with their policies of free money for the wealthy, cronies, and giant corporations, the previous administration truly fought for the working class .
    Fact:Apples taste good, and you can throw them at people if you're being attacked
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  19. #1059

    Default Re: President Biden's first year in office

    Quote Originally Posted by irontaino View Post
    Lol, with their policies of free money for the wealthy, cronies, and giant corporations, the previous administration truly fought for the working class .
    Funny how you are ready to clutch pearls over helping middle class, but I'm yet to see you post about Blackrock or Vanguard.
    Maybe things would be different if "democratic socialists" were something more then political prostitutes for ruling corporate oligarchy?

  20. #1060
    alhoon's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: President Biden's first year in office

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    I don't think it would work that way. Giving vote to Libertarians will result with less libertarian outcome, as Democrats outvote GOP and push for more illiberal laws, in the same way voting Communist in all likelihood will only make the GOP stronger.
    Indeed and that would be the point. If things get really bad, like they were for my country during the crisis, a lot of people would not care if one of the "Systemics" got more power.
    Whether it is Demolicans or Repubcrats they would be viewed as "one and the same". The split would be between the "Systemic" parties that have been in power for over a century and the non-systemic ones. THERE you will see the masks falling and the Systemics going all "Look, we can argue about crap like bathroom laws and pandering to minorities or the religious later. Now, we have to work to keep our rich friends and the system in power against those that want it to change. After that, we can go back to fighting over other things."
    A coalition government between Republicans and Democrats against the non-systemics is certainly possible if things turn bad.

    That's how you take down Bipartisanship (even if it is to replace it soon after with a new bipartisanship, as it happened in USA on the march towards the civil war with the Republicans/Democrats replacing the Democrats/Whigs).
    And when I say "Things get really bad", that's how bad I mean. As bad as to possibly lead to a very bloody civil war if there's no change.
    Last edited by alhoon; August 06, 2021 at 10:26 AM.
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