Thread: President Biden's first term in office

  1. #2241
    Vanoi's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: President Biden's first term in office

    Quote Originally Posted by Cope View Post
    It has not been established that the law was broken. As per the article "the legality of governors transporting migrants is murky" - meaning that its legality (or lack thereof) likely depends on a wide variety of factors. Certainly, Cruz did not claim that the state relocating migrants was illegal.
    It's not been established? Ted Cruz himself said it's illegal. You are mentioning governor's. We were talking about the individuals who are actually the transporting the migrants/illegal immigrants. Whenever the governor is committing a crime is irrelevant to what we were discussing.

    Agreements with the state empower certain firm(s) to manage the detention of convicts. This is not a power available to private persons not subject to the agreement(s).
    Still not the simple or otherwise anyone could create a corporation to manage a private prison yet there are more requirements than a simple contract.


    As above, it has not been established that the state transporting undocumented migrants across state lines "is illegal under federal law". If it is, the DOJ can start by investigating/prosecuting Democrats (including the WH).

    El Paso Mayor buses migrants to NYC.
    Aircraft records reveal secret migrant flights across the US.
    As above we are not talking governors but the individuals doing the transporting. That is illegal.

  2. #2242

    Default Re: President Biden's first term in office

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanoi View Post
    It's not been established? Ted Cruz himself said it's illegal. You are mentioning governor's. We were talking about the individuals who are actually the transporting the migrants/illegal immigrants. Whenever the governor is committing a crime is irrelevant to what we were discussing.
    Cruz said it would be illegal for a private person acting independently to transport undocumented migrants across state lines. He did not say that it would be illegal for the state to transport undocumented migrants across state lines, either directly or via a contracted third party.

    Still not the simple or otherwise anyone could create a corporation to manage a private prison yet there are more requirements than a simple contract.
    The example illustrates the difference between a third party contracted by the state to perform a particular service (e.g. relocating migrants) and a private person (e.g. Sean Hannity) acting independently.

    As above we are not talking governors but the individuals doing the transporting. That is illegal.
    It hasn't been established that it is illegal for states to use private firms to transport migrants out of state.



  3. #2243

    Default Re: President Biden's first term in office

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Thesaurian View Post
    Leftist cope and seethe over this has been unexpectedly swift. I suppose DeSantis is taking more heat than Abbott because he’s a potential presidential candidate. Gotta get the criminal accusations in BEFORE the Russians rig the election this time. Meanwhile, most Americans -including nearly half of Democrats - characterize what is happening at the southern border as an invasion. Just 19% disagree.

    Just because you don't like it that Russia helped your party win in exchange for favors doesn't make it fake. And even if that poll is true, right and wrong are not a popularity contest. Female Genital Mutilation and child marriage are supported by a majority in some countries, are these things therefore right?

    Let's try a thought experiment. You hear a soft knock at your door. Opening it, you see a small Hispanic girl. She can't be older than three, is bruised, shivering, and hasn't eaten in a week.

    What is your first instinct?:

    A) Recoil in disgust at her skin color and slam the door.

    B) Help her.
    Last edited by Coughdrop addict; September 19, 2022 at 03:59 AM.

  4. #2244
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    Default Re: President Biden's first term in office

    Quote Originally Posted by Cope View Post
    Cruz said it would be illegal for a private person acting independently to transport undocumented migrants across state lines. He did not say that it would be illegal for the state to transport undocumented migrants across state lines, either directly or via a contracted third party.
    And we have established that regardless of a contract or not transporting illegal illegal immigrants across state lines violates federal law. Federal law trump's any state contracts or law itself.

    Not once during this entire conversation have I said the states of Texas and Florida are violating federal law. Stop trying to change the subject.


    The example illustrates the difference between a third party contracted by the state to perform a particular service (e.g. relocating migrants) and a private person (e.g. Sean Hannity) acting independently.
    Already addressed the example and why it's wrong. State contracts nor laws themselves can trump federal law. DOJ has complete discretion to prosecute or arrest those who violate these federal laws regardless of state contracts or laws saying otherwise. See example marijuana dispensaries.

    It hasn't been established that it is illegal for states to use private firms to transport migrants out of state.
    It's illegal under federal law to transport illegal immigrants or migrants across state lines regardless of any state laws or contracts claiming you can.

  5. #2245

    Default Re: President Biden's first term in office

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanoi View Post
    And we have established that regardless of a contract or not transporting illegal illegal immigrants across state lines violates federal law. Federal law trump's any state contracts or law itself.

    Not once during this entire conversation have I said the states of Texas and Florida are violating federal law. Stop trying to change the subject.

    Already addressed the example and why it's wrong. State contracts nor laws themselves can trump federal law. DOJ has complete discretion to prosecute or arrest those who violate these federal laws regardless of state contracts or laws saying otherwise. See example marijuana dispensaries.

    It's illegal under federal law to transport illegal immigrants or migrants across state lines regardless of any state laws or contracts claiming you can.
    It was not claimed that federal law can be usurped. Nor has it been established that federal law was broken. Nor has it been shown that it would be necessarily (or even generally) unlawful for undocumented persons to be relocated by the state.



  6. #2246
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    Default Re: President Biden's first term in office

    Quote Originally Posted by Cope View Post
    It was not claimed that federal law can be usurped. Nor has it been established that federal law was broken. Nor has it been shown that it would be necessarily (or even generally) unlawful for undocumented persons to be relocated by the state.
    Except it's been established that people are transporting illegal
    Immigrants across state lines in violation of federal law. The very act itself is illegal.

  7. #2247

    Default Re: President Biden's first term in office

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanoi View Post
    Except it's been established that people are transporting illegal
    Immigrants across state lines in violation of federal law. The very act itself is illegal.
    Your general statement lacks the context needed to make such an act actually illegal. It all hinges on whether the migrants go voluntarily. The bottom line is that the state governments claim they violated no laws concerning the migrants based on this factor alone.

    Here's a recent NBC article that goes through the legalities of sending illegal immigrants to destination out of the state after they were caught illegally entering the US, then later released after a court appointment was set.

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/immigra...-ron-desantis/

    Some relevant passages from the article if you don't have the time to read it all.

    The migrants transported by Texas, Arizona and Florida were processed by federal border officials after entering the U.S. unlawfully and then released to continue their immigration cases inside the country.
    Just because a migrant is not expelled under Title 42 does not mean they have been granted permanent legal status in the U.S. or that they will not ultimately face deportation. But those released by the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) have been granted permission to continue their immigration cases inside the U.S.
    Migrants who are released after crossing the border illegally are still placed in deportation proceedings before the immigration court system, where they can seek asylum or other forms of humanitarian refuge. They need to attend court hearings to try to halt their deportations, and could be ordered deported if they miss them.Those who are granted asylum can stay in the U.S. permanently and those who lose their case can be ordered deported, but the adjudication process typically takes years to complete because of the mounting backlog of claims before the immigration courts, which are overseeing nearly 2 million unresolved cases.
    When migrants are released by federal officials, they are allowed to travel to a U.S. destination of their choosing. And they can get there through various means, including the buses and planes that some Republican governors are offering them.It's not illegal for states to transport migrants if it's voluntary. While critics have accused states of human trafficking and kidnapping, no proof has emerged that migrants have been forced on buses or planes. If the transportation involves coercion or false information, however, civil or criminal liability is possible, lawyers said.
    According to all reports I've seen, the migrants were more than happy for the free transportation but were required to sign waivers just in case and in particular for the group sent to Martha's Vineyard, everybody in the group was given a packet with a map of exactly where they were going, i.e., Martha's Vineyard. All in all they got a nice comfortable ride on a chartered jet to the island to a wealthy liberal enclave---An area with an off season population of between 17k and 19k. However, it's a vacation spot that normally that has housing to accommodate an extra 100k to 150k during the season. Plenty of empty hotels, B&Bs, and rentals.

    Of course, while the migrants were greeted and they were put up in a church meeting hall for two nights, within 48 hours they were packed off to a military base on Cape Cod. There has also been at least one report that a migrant claimed he had been tricked into going and claimed he thought he was going somewhere else.

    It's still a little early to see where all of this will fall out and whether any can prove these claims or make some sort of civil case out of it is another matter all together.

    Liberal commentator and comedian Bill Marr quipped that all they had to do now was to schedule a quick trip to Nantucket and they would have the same itinerary as the cruise he bought for his parents a few years ago.

    Cheers
    Last edited by Forward Observer; September 19, 2022 at 07:39 PM.
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  8. #2248
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    Default Re: President Biden's first term in office

    So human trafficking is A-ok, as long as it's Republicans doing it to try and make a point according to our conservative users then?

    In other news, Hurricane Fiona tore through the Caribbean, leaving Puerto Rico entirely powerless. The Biden administration would have to actively try to botch their response as badly as the Trump admin's response to Hurricane Maria.
    Last edited by irontaino; September 19, 2022 at 07:59 PM.
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  9. #2249

    Default Re: President Biden's first term in office

    I wonder if the migrants Biden and Obama “trafficked” all around the US got the chance to sign waivers and receive brochures about where they were going.
    Of these facts there cannot be any shadow of doubt: for instance, that civil society was renovated in every part by Christian institutions; that in the strength of that renewal the human race was lifted up to better things-nay, that it was brought back from death to life, and to so excellent a life that nothing more perfect had been known before, or will come to be known in the ages that have yet to be. - Pope Leo XIII

  10. #2250

    Default Re: President Biden's first term in office

    Quote Originally Posted by irontaino View Post
    So human trafficking is A-ok, as long as it's Republicans doing it to try and make a point according to our conservative users then?

    In other news, Hurricane Fiona tore through the Caribbean, leaving Puerto Rico entirely powerless. The Biden administration would have to actively try to botch their response as badly as the Trump admin's response to Hurricane Maria.
    Honestly I think a Republican could spit in their faces and they'd not only be okay with it, they'd thank him for it.

    I wouldn't call the Trump admin's response botched. It's more like they never intended to do anything to help at all.

    https://www.cnn.com/2022/09/19/us/be...ion/index.html

    A Texas sheriff said Monday evening his agency will open an investigation into the transportation of 48 Venezuelan migrants from the state to Martha’s Vineyard, Massachusetts.
    Bexar County Sheriff Javier Salazar, a Democrat, told reporters at a Monday news conference that his understanding was that on Wednesday a Venezuelan migrant was paid a “bird dog fee” to recruit 50 migrants from a resource center in San Antonio.
    The sheriff said he believes laws were not only broken in Bexar County in transporting nearly 50 migrants to Martha’s Vineyard but that parallel laws were also broken on the federal side.

    A total of 48 migrants were “lured” to a hotel where they were housed for two days, according to Salazar.
    The migrants were flown to Florida and then later transported to Martha’s Vineyard under “false pretenses,” he said.
    The sheriff said they were flown to Martha’s Vineyard for “a photo-op and stranded.” He believes the migrants were “exploited and hoodwinked” into making the trip for political posturing.
    https://www.cnn.com/2022/09/19/us/mi...ure/index.html

    Attorneys for many of the nearly 50 migrants who landed unexpectedly in Martha’s Vineyard said Monday that brochures given to their clients were “highly misleading” and “used to entice (their) clients to travel under the guise that (resettlement) support was available to them.”
    The brochure lists refugee services, including cash and housing assistance, clothing, transportation to job interviews, job training and assistance registering children for school, among other resources.
    One Venezuelan migrant, who spoke to CNN on the condition of anonymity for fear of negative impacts on their immigration case, shared images of the brochure. They said migrants were told that the brochure had information on the assistance they would receive in Massachusetts, but they were not told about the differences in programs for refugees and asylum seekers.
    If there is justice in the world, then these vile human trafficking Republicans will face prison time. Otherwise it will be clear that Republicans are indeed an aristocratic class above the laws that the peasants have to follow.
    Last edited by Coughdrop addict; September 20, 2022 at 05:37 AM.

  11. #2251

    Default Re: President Biden's first term in office

    Impatient with calls for the DoJ to summarily imprison the entire Florida state government, seething leftists have now sued them personally AND professionally on behalf of anonymous immigrants. The plaintiffs are trying to turn the case into a class action so they can exploit these immigrants in order to profit from what they insist is exploitation. Peak clown world.
    Of these facts there cannot be any shadow of doubt: for instance, that civil society was renovated in every part by Christian institutions; that in the strength of that renewal the human race was lifted up to better things-nay, that it was brought back from death to life, and to so excellent a life that nothing more perfect had been known before, or will come to be known in the ages that have yet to be. - Pope Leo XIII

  12. #2252

    Default Re: President Biden's first term in office

    You cannot trick people into coming into the country, then deceive them about where you are sending them. This is wrong.

    Democrats are not doing this to exploit them, but because we actually care about others. We see kidnapping and human trafficking as bad things regardless of who is doing them to who.

    Of course you know that and think that you're clever by acting as if you're not aware.

    Or more likely you just don't care because according to your side "those people" are subhumans anyway.

  13. #2253

    Default Re: President Biden's first term in office

    While the POTUS decries Republicans as violent extremists and the most serious threat to the country, a murderer who acted on that kind of rhetoric from the highest levels of government is free on bail.

    A North Dakota man charged with killing a teenager using his vehicle has reportedly admitted to intentionally hitting him after a political dispute, claiming the boy was part of a Republican “extremist group.”

    Shannon Brandt, 41, killed 18-year-old Cayler Ellingson early Sunday in McHenry with an SUV in an alley, KVRR-TV reported. He is charged with vehicular homicide and leaving the scene of a deadly accident.

    https://nypost.com/2022/09/21/shanno...politics-cops/
    If conservatives can’t even safely walk the streets in deep red North Dakota, it’s no wonder most are scared of retaliation if they dare share their political views.



    You cannot trick people into coming into the country, then deceive them about where you are sending them. This is wrong.
    Lol are liberals really claiming DeSantis “tricked people into illegally entering the country” or did you just make that up?
    Last edited by Lord Thesaurian; September 21, 2022 at 06:34 PM.
    Of these facts there cannot be any shadow of doubt: for instance, that civil society was renovated in every part by Christian institutions; that in the strength of that renewal the human race was lifted up to better things-nay, that it was brought back from death to life, and to so excellent a life that nothing more perfect had been known before, or will come to be known in the ages that have yet to be. - Pope Leo XIII

  14. #2254

    Default Re: President Biden's first term in office

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Thesaurian View Post
    While the POTUS decries Republicans as violent extremists and the most serious threat to the country, a murderer who acted on that kind of rhetoric from the highest levels of government is free on bail.
    Projection will not work when your side routinely commits mass murders and gleefully talks about starting a civil war to make Trump king and purge the country of non-whites.

    If conservatives can’t even safely walk the streets in deep red North Dakota, it’s no wonder most are scared of retaliation if they dare share their political views.
    You try and claim offense and victimhood when your side's mission is to impede and otherwise criminalize the rights and freedoms of other Americans who don't share your ideology and who want and expect independence and autonomy. As the Russians did in Ukraine, your side started a war and then seem utterly flabbergasted that the other side is fighting back.

    Please understand, we will not wear the yoke of tyranny and will push back in perpetuity. If the Right wants to place its collective bootheel on the throats of Americans and try to impose a fascist dictatorship, then it had better get used to widespread and sustained antagonism from those of us not looking to be made serfs.

    Lol are liberals really claiming DeSantis “tricked people into illegally entering the country” or did you just make that up?
    They were asylum seekers from Venezuela. He had his goons hand out pamphlets promising jobs and citizenship in Boston to entice them onto the buses so he could use them for his little stunt. You of course know this.

  15. #2255

    Default Re: President Biden's first term in office

    your side routinely commits mass murders
    source?
    As the Russians did in Ukraine, your side started a war and then seem utterly flabbergasted that the other side is fighting back.
    Now you’re claiming murder is self defense? Yikes.
    They were asylum seekers from Venezuela. He had his goons hand out pamphlets promising jobs and citizenship in Boston to entice them onto the buses so he could use them for his little stunt. You of course know this.
    OK, so you made it up. Got it.
    Last edited by Lord Thesaurian; September 22, 2022 at 06:58 AM.
    Of these facts there cannot be any shadow of doubt: for instance, that civil society was renovated in every part by Christian institutions; that in the strength of that renewal the human race was lifted up to better things-nay, that it was brought back from death to life, and to so excellent a life that nothing more perfect had been known before, or will come to be known in the ages that have yet to be. - Pope Leo XIII

  16. #2256
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    Default Re: President Biden's first term in office

    Hideous mockery of justice to kick refugees around like footballs. My country does it too, and say its for their own good, is that worse than using them for cheap point scoring? I honestly dont know.

    The Trump faction lacks basic humanity, this is JFK tier depravity.
    Jatte lambastes Calico Rat

  17. #2257

    Default Re: President Biden's first term in office

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Thesaurian View Post
    source?

    Now you’re claiming murder is self defense? Yikes.

    OK, so you made it up. Got it.
    I provided sources. Are you now claiming those mass shootings didn't happen?

    Now you're desperately trying to obfuscate the reality of your failure to substantiate your claims in any sensible manner.
    Last edited by Abdülmecid I; September 23, 2022 at 05:15 AM. Reason: Disruptive.

  18. #2258

    Default Re: President Biden's first term in office

    You linked to some shootings perpetrated by Nazis/white supremacists. I asked for a source for your assertion “[my] side routinely commits mass murders.”
    Of these facts there cannot be any shadow of doubt: for instance, that civil society was renovated in every part by Christian institutions; that in the strength of that renewal the human race was lifted up to better things-nay, that it was brought back from death to life, and to so excellent a life that nothing more perfect had been known before, or will come to be known in the ages that have yet to be. - Pope Leo XIII

  19. #2259

    Default Re: President Biden's first term in office

    Nazis and white supremacists inspired by the rhetoric of your side and it's anti-immigrant propaganda. Legal, illegal, whats the difference when it is all "white replacement"?

    So, why is the presence of Hispanics and other non-whites inherently harmful?

    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/imm...tion-rcna48967

    The air charter company Gov. Ron DeSantis’ administration hired for his migrant-moving program has contributed big money to some top allies of the governor and was once legally represented by Rep. Matt Gaetz andhis former partner, who is now Florida's “public safety czar” in charge of immigration policy.
    DeSantis’ administration has refused to release a copy of the $12 million contract with Vertol Systems CompanyInc. for its role in administering the “unauthorized alien” program which state Democrats sought to block with a lawsuit Thursday nor will the governor’s office comment on the nearly $1.6 million the company has received to send migrants to so-called sanctuary cities that welcome immigrants.
    DeSantis undoubtedly got some nice kickbacks from Vertol for his stunt.

  20. #2260

    Default Re: President Biden's first term in office

    Ok, so you don’t actually have a source for your claim “[my] side routinely commits mass murders,” not that it would support your other wild claims here anyway. Hostility to immigration is a worldwide phenomenon since time immemorial, and given the increasing prevalence of Latino candidates to GOP electoral strategy, the rest of your diatribe is as inane as your attempt to justify murder.
    Of these facts there cannot be any shadow of doubt: for instance, that civil society was renovated in every part by Christian institutions; that in the strength of that renewal the human race was lifted up to better things-nay, that it was brought back from death to life, and to so excellent a life that nothing more perfect had been known before, or will come to be known in the ages that have yet to be. - Pope Leo XIII

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