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Thread: [Preview] Armenian Rebels (non playable faction).

  1. #1
    AnthoniusII's Avatar XXI ARMORED BRIGADE
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    Icon4 [Preview] Armenian Rebels (non playable faction).

    Armenia a land divided.


    Armenians were some of the oldest indigenous people in east Asia Minor and beyond. Also they were famous horse breeders that allowed them to develop since antiquity the skill of horsemanship. It was not an accident that their tribute to Persian kings of the old was the famous Nisean horses. A horse breed that combined mobility , fatigue and enough strength to carry heavily armored riders and even armor for them selves . In many periods Armenians had a state of their own but their strategic position of their homelands and their famous horses plus their horsemanship skills were causes to see their homelands divided. In every opportunity thought Armenians tried to restore their state. In such an attempt religions played a crucial role to their independence from the Roman Empire by leaving the Orthodox Dogma and join the Monophysite one. In the Arabic expansion, a new enemy appeared, the Arabs. But Arabs were more tolerant to Armenians and their religion dogma than Constantinople was. Soon enough famous Armenian military households provided warriors and even famous generals in both sides of the Romano-Arabic border. In Arabic career religion change was not required but in the Roman side an Armenian had to become an Orthodox Christian in order to climb the ladder of military evolution. The most famous family was the house of Qurqua that gave a Domesticos ton Sholon tis Anatolis (Chief Marshal of the eastern armies) and a Protector of Emperor the famous Tzimiskes , son of the previus one. In our period Armenians use traditional equipment of the old times with new 9th to 10th century’s armies additions. Do not mistake them with the Cilician Armenians that existed a couple centuries after.

    Armenian Nobles:


    Armenian Nobles are the most common sight in both Roman and Abbasid armies. Armenian great land owners preferred to serve to anyone that could ensure their status and their wealth of course.
    They were heavily armored with high quality horses making them much in request for their skills to feel the gaps between poorly trained provincial units and local nobles that both Romans and Abbasids often did not trust their loyalty. 20000 such men were the dispatch that Romanos IV Diogenes sent to Hliat to break the siege of the Arp Aslan’s forces but never returned back joining the traitors side contributing to Diogenes defeat and capture.
    In every case they are highly valuable to any general in battle.

    Armenian Bodyguards.


    Every ambitious rich land owner or a member of a famous household of Armenian origin dreams to restore the state of Armenia.
    A task not easy at all if we must consider that Armenians have to fight two super powers, the Romans and the Abbasids and often fight other ambitious Armenians.
    That is why a claimer to the throne of Armenia chooses wisely among the bravest and the wealthiest of Armenians to accompany to him in battle.
    Those squires are some of the heaviest shock cavalry in the east. Their wealth allows them to provide for them the best quality of weapons and armors.



    Armenian heavy cavalry:


    In Armenian lands there are not only huge military households but also medium size land owners that can burden the cost of a good war horse that is easy to find in their lands and an also good armor.
    In the battlefield they act as a shock unit trying to brake infantry formations like their ancestors did for centuries before them.
    A skill that passes from generation to generation . In terms of armor they are heaviest than Thematic Roman Cavalarii but the main difference is that they own the lands they posses when Roman Cavalarii use state’s lands instead.

    Armenian Archers:


    Armenians were not famous only about their horsemen. Their constant need for defense against superior enemies seeking to take their lands forced them to develop archery as well.
    Their geographical position of their lands was a crossroad of trade and customs. One skill that Armenians early on interested to learn was archery by the best of the steppe people.
    So their archers use composite bows with lethal armor piercing ability. That way they surpassed in archery both Romans and Arabs in the regions around their homelands.
    The mountainous terrain allow them to set ambushes even to the most dangerous of the enemies .

    Armenian Borderguards.


    Javelin is not a weapon to underestimate. Form Xenophon’s Anabasis we read that indigenous people like Kourdikoi (Kurds) and others guarded the narrow mountain passes with huge numbers of javelin men. Armenians were among them. Their lands were protected by mobile infantry forces armed with javelins to set ambushes to invaders or raiders that left their lands slowed by the burden of their loots. They were so capable in that task that was the other common sight on both sides of the border between Romans and Abbasids. In terms of armor and skill are closest to Roman Peltastoi as trained units rather than Roman Acontstae. In that period though Pelastoi under the Nikephorus Phokas army reforms had access to heavier armors than Armenian Borderguards .

    Armenian spearmen.


    Once a state of Armenia would established the new King formed an elite palace guard .
    Those warriors resemble though more to praetorians rather than other palace guards.
    Their task was to hold the Palace (and the city that housed that palace) intact.
    Most commonly they formed lines of heavy spearmen armed with the best armors their new king could provide for them.

    Armenian axemen:


    An Armenian King was a former noble.
    That mends that another noble could anytime to raise a claim to the Armenian throne.
    For that reason the “new” King had a separated personal chambers guard armed with long swords but more frequently with large axes.
    They were loyal to the King’s purse though rather than the King himself.
    In the battlefield though could spread panic among the enemies, especially those that did not have the nerve or the training to deal with such warriors.


    CREDITS:
    Texture fragments by :
    Absinthia
    tone
    Matthaeus
    Cuadrillo
    Pacco
    Leif_Erikson

    Weapons by Lord_Calidor
    Heads and faces by Razor
    Helmets by Matthaeus and AnthoniusII
    Shoulder armor by Cuadrillo
    3d closed houd by Socal_infidel
    Shield paterns by Avetis.
    Javelin animation by Koultouras


  2. #2
    demagogos nicator's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: [Preview] Armenian Rebels (non playable faction).

    Another great preview! Great job!

  3. #3
    Antiokhos Euergetes's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: [Preview] Armenian Rebels (non playable faction).

    Excellent preview, will some of this Armenian nobles become available as generals for Romans, there are afterglow many examples of Armenian/Georgian Lords being given titles and fortresses to control in Anatolia

  4. #4
    AnthoniusII's Avatar XXI ARMORED BRIGADE
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    Default Re: [Preview] Armenian Rebels (non playable faction).

    Quote Originally Posted by Antiokhos Euergetes View Post
    Excellent preview, will some of this Armenian nobles become available as generals for Romans, there are afterglow many examples of Armenian/Georgian Lords being given titles and fortresses to control in Anatolia
    No because the Armenian origin generals were part of the Roman military society and there for had the proper general's Roman escort... This rebel faction is a base for a future fully emerging Armenian faction via a scripted revolution.
    Beware though. Those Armenian have no connection at all with Cilician Armenians as warriors. Actually Cilician Armenians were exiles that sent there by the Romans after numerus rebelions.

  5. #5
    Antiokhos Euergetes's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: [Preview] Armenian Rebels (non playable faction).

    Yes of course true. I look forward to seeing further information thank you

  6. #6

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    Symbols of the Hellenistic era on the shields?

    Is there any evidence that the Armenian army was actually like that? Is this a fictional army?
    Last edited by AnthoniusII; February 06, 2021 at 03:34 AM.

  7. #7
    AnthoniusII's Avatar XXI ARMORED BRIGADE
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    Default Re: [Preview] Armenian Rebels (non playable faction).

    Quote Originally Posted by Khevsur View Post
    Symbols of the Hellenistic era on the shields?

    Is there any evidence that the Armenian army was actually like that? Is this a fictional army?
    Yes insignias did not change much (the Lion became their symbol AFTER their EXILE into Cilicia).
    I hope you do not mean this

    or this:

    The eagles, lion and the sun together were their symbols untill then.

    This is their most comon banner much later. Armenians were people of tradition. As Christians did not use CROSS on their shields neither Saints icons , not them neither Romans. Geometric and traditional symbls dominated the shield and banner insignias.
    Cilicia is not Armenians homeland it was a place of exile that used it to make a short lived state.
    Nore Goergia had the banner with the 4 Crosses back then. Not even the new Iin Christianity Bulgatrians.

  8. #8

    Default Re: [Preview] Armenian Rebels (non playable faction).

    In Georgia, the cross is a pre-Christian symbol. Means the 4 sides of the universe


    Read papers about Georgian Feudal Lords Full Horse Armors ? Did you realize that you are wrong?There are articles by medieval chroniclers, Including articles by Byzantine chroniclers. I do not like lies.

  9. #9
    _Tartaros_'s Avatar "Harzschütze"
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    Default Re: [Preview] Armenian Rebels (non playable faction).

    a lie is a willingly false testament.
    be carefull what you are intend in your post.

    the thread isn´t about georgia and georgian units. it´s an armenian preview and you try to go offtopic and link into georgian history by force.
    Last edited by _Tartaros_; February 06, 2021 at 06:32 AM.

  10. #10
    AnthoniusII's Avatar XXI ARMORED BRIGADE
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    Default Re: [Preview] Armenian Rebels (non playable faction).

    Quote Originally Posted by Khevsur View Post
    In Georgia, the cross is a pre-Christian symbol. Means the 4 sides of the universe


    Read papers about Georgian Feudal Lords Full Horse Armors ? Did you realize that you are wrong?There are articles by medieval chroniclers, Including articles by Byzantine chroniclers. I do not like lies.
    Allow me to know about Greek Military chronicles better than you because i can read them in their primary language without translate them in modern greek or english.
    If i have questions i go to real historians (FliegerAD is a real Historian and articles of his published in history magazines in Germany, Manuel Komnenos is a REAL historian from Croatia , Absinthia has deep knowlege in Norse history and NikeBG has deep knowlege in Bulgarian history, Koultouras is a history teacher in a private school and finally if we have more questions to ask I personaly have conatct with real historians like mr R.D.Ammato who publishes in Oprey history books like this one: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/...eavy-cavalry-2 ). No one of us know everything we all still learning but we are willing to learn not fantasize.
    From that book Cataphract of Athanati regiment,

    1: Ctaphract from the Imperial Tagmata. 2: Provincial cataphract.

    All based on recent arceaological findings not simple nationalistic desires!

  11. #11

    Default Re: [Preview] Armenian Rebels (non playable faction).

    Quote Originally Posted by AnthoniusII View Post
    Allow me to know about Greek Military chronicles better than you because i can read them in their primary language without translate them in modern greek or english.
    If i have questions i go to real historians (FliegerAD is a real Historian and articles of his published in history magazines in Germany, Manuel Komnenos is a REAL historian from Croatia , Absinthia has deep knowlege in Norse history and NikeBG has deep knowlege in Bulgarian history, Koultouras is a history teacher in a private school and finally if we have more questions to ask I personaly have conatct with real historians like mr R.D.Ammato who publishes in Oprey history books like this one: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/...eavy-cavalry-2 ). No one of us know everything we all still learning but we are willing to learn not fantasize.
    From that book Cataphract of Athanati regiment,

    1: Ctaphract from the Imperial Tagmata. 2: Provincial cataphract.

    All based on recent arceaological findings not simple nationalistic desires!
    I showed you the references. Did you call me a nationalist?I have contact with military historians.

    Georgian horse armor in X-XIII centuries were metal full armor - lamellar and Chain mail. in georgia felt horse armors used in late medieval times.


    no problem, georgian and bizantine cataphracts horses had heavy full horse armor. But in Georgia there was only metal horse armor. in georgia cataphracts only were Elite Feudals,With their own finances. Kings not give them armors and weapons.

    You are not the only one who knows history. I also know the history
    Last edited by Khevsur; February 06, 2021 at 07:43 AM.

  12. #12

    Default Re: [Preview] Armenian Rebels (non playable faction).

    Quote Originally Posted by Khevsur View Post
    I showed you the references. Did you call me a nationalist?I have contact with military historians.

    Georgian horse armor in X-XIII centuries were metal full armor - lamellar and Chain mail. in georgia felt horse armors used in late medieval times.


    no problem, georgian and bizantine cataphracts horses had heavy full horse armor. But in Georgia there was only metal horse armor. in georgia cataphracts only were Elite Feudals,With their own finances. Kings not give them armors and weapons.

    You are not the only one who knows history. I also know the history

    yeah, and you have not provided any link whatsoever, and this mod is centered around 700-1025 AD timeline, not XIII century.
    Just get out, we dont need your "contribution"

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