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Thread: Citizenship and Infraction Levels - A Proposed Approach as a Replacement for the Ambiguous "Standards of Behavior"

  1. #1
    Nicholas Rush's Avatar The Black Rose
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    Default Citizenship and Infraction Levels - A Proposed Approach as a Replacement for the Ambiguous "Standards of Behavior"

    The concept of "standards of behavior" has long bedeviled the TWC Citizenship and Curial organizations. Because of the ambiguous phrasing, this has led to a multitude of issues when a citizen receives a moderation or infraction, OR behaves in a manner xxphrase to be inserted herexxxxxxx.

    I propose we alter the approach of the Curia to these issues by adopting and aligning the infraction point system with any proposed punishments, suspensions or loss of office.

    The system would be based on the current point system as outlined in the TOS but adopted for Curial purposes. This will require altering text in the Constitution.

    I use the current TOS wording as a template and have overlayed the proposed Curial infraction point system (CIPS).


    Notes


    Notes are given when the actions of a member require Moderation to officially contact them regarding a violation. They are a formal record of that contact and do not increase a member's Infraction Level in and of themselves, however further violations of the same type would lead to Infractions at Moderation's Discretion. They are recorded both to let other moderators know that the user has been informed of the particular rule, and to give the user a record of all contacts with moderators they have had. Notes will have no affect on Citizenship status.

    Infractions

    Infractions are given when a member commits an offense of a type for which they have already received a Note, or if the offense was deemed sufficiently great that Moderation do not consider a Note to be appropriate. Infractions expire after three months and contribute toward a member's Infraction Level. The number of points given for a particular offense is down to Moderation's Discretion. The possible values are given next to each offense type listed in the Member Conduct section.

    Infraction Levels


    Infraction Levels lead to penalties as follows:




    Penalties last until the Infraction Level is reduced below the specified number of points unless otherwise specified. Release from probation is at Moderation's discretion.


    In addition, I propose that moderation of the Curia and Prothalamus be turned over to the Moderation branch. This would involved removing those powers from the Consul.

    The tribunal system and appeals would then be the route for dealing with the accumulated points.

    The Ostrakon system would remain in place. That section is a mess however and needs to be restructured. This will require altering text in the Constitution.

    Last edited by Nicholas Rush; January 06, 2021 at 12:32 PM. Reason: Add Information


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  2. #2

    Default Re: Citizenship and Infraction Levels - A Proposed Approach as a Replacement for the Ambiguous "Standards of Behavior"

    I can't read any of this post because all of the text is in a weird color, so opposed.

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  3. #3
    Cope's Avatar 777777777777777
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    Default Re: Citizenship and Infraction Levels - A Proposed Approach as a Replacement for the Ambiguous "Standards of Behavior"

    I dislike mandatory punishments, but I prefer this to the current provisions. Support.

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    Sir Adrian's Avatar the Imperishable
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    Default Re: Citizenship and Infraction Levels - A Proposed Approach as a Replacement for the Ambiguous "Standards of Behavior"

    This makes sense and is a much better alternative than the nebulous "higher standards". Support.

    I would move the currial office thing at 3 points. You should not be able to run if you have active infractions.
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    King Athelstan's Avatar The Wheel Weaves
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    Default Re: Citizenship and Infraction Levels - A Proposed Approach as a Replacement for the Ambiguous "Standards of Behavior"

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Adrian View Post
    I would move the currial office thing at 3 points. You should not be able to run if you have active infractions.
    As things are one cannot run for Curial Office if one has received a moderation warning in the past month. - I am a bit conflicted about this. In principle it seems like a good idea and a solid foundation to have some needed clarity.

    However - I think that removal from Office/ineligibility to run for office should be the first level. Citizens are supposed to have "higher standards", no? Especially those in a Curial Office, and therefore I believe that one should be strictest there.

    Combining this with Moderation's system also entails giving up all moderation powers of the Curia to Moderation, which I personally dislike. In my opinion the Curia should be a separate entity that has some autonomy, and not just another Questions & Suggestions fora with the pretext of bling.
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    Nicholas Rush's Avatar The Black Rose
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    Default Re: Citizenship and Infraction Levels - A Proposed Approach as a Replacement for the Ambiguous "Standards of Behavior"

    I see some elements of positive feedback and I will incorporate those into a more refined proposal. I do believe, however, that producing a infraction scale for Citizens will require a substantial rewrite of the Constitution. There are several other Discussions that are working with that idea of completing a more readable version, and reduction of bloat.

    Perhaps a coordinated effort would include.

    1. Produce a more readable version (i.e. Akar's and Cope's work). Submit this in the Prothalamus and vote on it to replace the current version.

    2. Reorganize the work into a single "section" and reduce the unneeded references and material.

    3. Develop the "Citizen Infraction Point System" and submit it to the Prothalamus.


    Pillaging and Plundering since 2006

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    Default Re: Citizenship and Infraction Levels - A Proposed Approach as a Replacement for the Ambiguous "Standards of Behavior"

    still can't read the post because the text is a weird color...

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    pacifism's Avatar see the day
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    Default Re: Citizenship and Infraction Levels - A Proposed Approach as a Replacement for the Ambiguous "Standards of Behavior"

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicholas Rush View Post
    The concept of "standards of behavior" has long bedeviled the TWC Citizenship and Curial organizations. Because of the ambiguous phrasing, this has led to a multitude of issues when a citizen receives a moderation or infraction, OR behaves in a manner xxphrase to be inserted herexxxxxxx.

    I propose we alter the approach of the Curia to these issues by adopting and aligning the infraction point system with any proposed punishments, suspensions or loss of office.

    The system would be based on the current point system as outlined in the TOS but adopted for Curial purposes. This will require altering text in the Constitution.

    I use the current TOS wording as a template and have overlayed the proposed Curial infraction point system (CIPS).


    Notes


    Notes are given when the actions of a member require Moderation to officially contact them regarding a violation. They are a formal record of that contact and do not increase a member's Infraction Level in and of themselves, however further violations of the same type would lead to Infractions at Moderation's Discretion. They are recorded both to let other moderators know that the user has been informed of the particular rule, and to give the user a record of all contacts with moderators they have had. Notes will have no affect on Citizenship status.

    Infractions

    Infractions are given when a member commits an offense of a type for which they have already received a Note, or if the offense was deemed sufficiently great that Moderation do not consider a Note to be appropriate. Infractions expire after three months and contribute toward a member's Infraction Level. The number of points given for a particular offense is down to Moderation's Discretion. The possible values are given next to each offense type listed in the Member Conduct section.

    Infraction Levels


    Infraction Levels lead to penalties as follows:

    Penalties last until the Infraction Level is reduced below the specified number of points unless otherwise specified. Release from probation is at Moderation's discretion.

    In addition, I propose that moderation of the Curia and Prothalamus be turned over to the Moderation branch. This would involved removing those powers from the Consul.

    The tribunal system and appeals would then be the route for dealing with the accumulated points.

    The Ostrakon system would remain in place. That section is a mess however and needs to be restructured. This will require altering text in the Constitution.
    Three points before citizens start losing privileges? It's actually pretty hard to accidentally get infracted that much. Standardized standards might be a good idea, I don't know, but these ones are just so low. This makes the standard of behavior for citizens barely distinguishable from regular members.

    If citizens are supposed to represent the best people on the site, then they really shouldn't be getting notes or infractions in the first place. I'll bet there are even citizens who don't break the rules but they're behavior is bad enough that I'd question why they should get to have the decoration. It's pretty much a foregone conclusion to me that a citizen absolutely does not deserve their gewgaw if they are anywhere close to racking up five active moderation points.
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    Sir Adrian's Avatar the Imperishable
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    Default Re: Citizenship and Infraction Levels - A Proposed Approach as a Replacement for the Ambiguous "Standards of Behavior"

    Quote Originally Posted by King Athelstan View Post
    As things are one cannot run for Curial Office if one has received a moderation warning in the past month. - I am a bit conflicted about this. In principle it seems like a good idea and a solid foundation to have some needed clarity.

    However - I think that removal from Office/ineligibility to run for office should be the first level. Citizens are supposed to have "higher standards", no? Especially those in a Curial Office, and therefore I believe that one should be strictest there.

    Combining this with Moderation's system also entails giving up all moderation powers of the Curia to Moderation, which I personally dislike. In my opinion the Curia should be a separate entity that has some autonomy, and not just another Questions & Suggestions fora with the pretext of bling.
    Well, 3 is the first level here.
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    Nicholas Rush's Avatar The Black Rose
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    Default Re: Citizenship and Infraction Levels - A Proposed Approach as a Replacement for the Ambiguous "Standards of Behavior"

    I used the current moderation scale as an example, so yea probably needs to be tweaked a little bit for Citizens and the Curia. I would also like to see infractions IN the Curia have a higher point value than say, the Mudpit.

    I actually went the other way with the points be giving some leeway to Citizens and allow them to acquire a few hits before losing their privileges. I guess this could be discussed while adjusting the point scale.


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    Flinn's Avatar Dude of Steel
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    Default Re: Citizenship and Infraction Levels - A Proposed Approach as a Replacement for the Ambiguous "Standards of Behavior"

    I have refrained myself from commenting so far, but I have to say I'm against this system.. it's just adding an unnecessary layer of tolerance.

    Let's see how moderation work, normally: any member, unless they intentionally post porn, aren't going to be straightly infracted. The usual procedure is to PM them, then Note them and finally start to give infractions with points. So as you can see, any member, might it be a citizen or not, that never had a previous dealing with Moderation, will have two effective warnings before beings officially infracted: since Citizens are called to be of example, I'd say that 2 warnings are more than enough.

    appendix: anyone who already had previous dealings with moderation will now, so no excuses as well; let's not pretend people don't know what they are going towards when they act against the ToS
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    Cope's Avatar 777777777777777
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    Default Re: Citizenship and Infraction Levels - A Proposed Approach as a Replacement for the Ambiguous "Standards of Behavior"

    The current system adds "unnecessary layers" of mandatory intolerance. In my view, the Curia should not be interfering with disciplinary measures, but if it must, I'd much rather it did so in the manner suggested by Nicholas Rush.
    Last edited by Cope; January 18, 2021 at 10:30 PM.

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    pacifism's Avatar see the day
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    Default Re: Citizenship and Infraction Levels - A Proposed Approach as a Replacement for the Ambiguous "Standards of Behavior"

    Have you tried not getting an infraction? It's really not asking for much.
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    Flinn's Avatar Dude of Steel
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    Default Re: Citizenship and Infraction Levels - A Proposed Approach as a Replacement for the Ambiguous "Standards of Behavior"

    Quote Originally Posted by pacifism View Post
    Have you tried not getting an infraction? It's really not asking for much.
    That's precisely the point here

    Let me stress this point again: Citizens are expected to keep an exemplary behavior, nothing less.

    Moderation allows for a fair learning curve, and it gets quite something before you are actually infracted, so no excuses. The so called "citizenship higher standards", which were not codified, were simply an excuse to circumvent this fundamental aspect of what made TWC citizenship special. The actual system is absolutely fair and in line with what citizenship has always intended to represent.
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    Lifthrasir's Avatar "Capre" Dunkerquois
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    Default Re: Citizenship and Infraction Levels - A Proposed Approach as a Replacement for the Ambiguous "Standards of Behavior"

    Jack of all trades, master of none...
    Basically, let the Moderation do his job and no special treatment for Citizens. If a Citizen is unable to follow the rules on a regular basis then he's not worth to be a Citizen.

    Option 2 : whip the bad guy in public like in good old days and I propose Flinn to be the executioner
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    Default Re: Citizenship and Infraction Levels - A Proposed Approach as a Replacement for the Ambiguous "Standards of Behavior"

    Quote Originally Posted by Flinn View Post

    Let me stress this point again: Citizens are expected to keep an exemplary behavior, nothing less.


    This - a points system like this allows for too much leeway and doesn't make sense. If you're a citizen your behaviour should be such that you shouldn't get infracted in the first plac, as Lifth says above too.
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    Iskar's Avatar Insanity with Dignity
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    Default Re: Citizenship and Infraction Levels - A Proposed Approach as a Replacement for the Ambiguous "Standards of Behavior"

    The easiest solution would simply be to automatically suspend citizenship (thus also all offices, running for offices, posting in the Curia) while any infractions are active.

    EDIT: Bugger me, that system is already in place (has been some time since I last checked the good old Constitution.) So, we already live in the best of all possible worlds, no need to change the system.
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    Default Re: Citizenship and Infraction Levels - A Proposed Approach as a Replacement for the Ambiguous "Standards of Behavior"

    Quote Originally Posted by Iskar View Post
    The easiest solution would simply be to automatically suspend citizenship (thus also all offices, running for offices, posting in the Curia) while any infractions are active.

    EDIT: Bugger me, that system is already in place (has been some time since I last checked the good old Constitution.) So, we already live in the best of all possible worlds, no need to change the system.
    Not only that, you were the one who suggested the constitutional amendment implementing the system in the first place.

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    Iskar's Avatar Insanity with Dignity
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    Default Re: Citizenship and Infraction Levels - A Proposed Approach as a Replacement for the Ambiguous "Standards of Behavior"

    Yeh, I just got used to my proposals for simplification/removal of the referral system being voted down.
    "Non i titoli illustrano gli uomini, ma gli uomini i titoli." - Niccolo Machiavelli, Discorsi

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    Default Re: Citizenship and Infraction Levels - A Proposed Approach as a Replacement for the Ambiguous "Standards of Behavior"

    Quote Originally Posted by Lifthrasir View Post
    Jack of all trades, master of none...
    Basically, let the Moderation do his job and no special treatment for Citizens. If a Citizen is unable to follow the rules on a regular basis then he's not worth to be a Citizen.

    Option 2 : whip the bad guy in public like in good old days and I propose Flinn to be the executioner
    Can I be the whipping boy?

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