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Thread: [Discussion] Moderation Warnings Regarding Eligibility for Curial Offices

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    King Athelstan's Avatar The Wheel Weaves
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    Default [Discussion] Moderation Warnings Regarding Eligibility for Curial Offices

    Greetings, I've read through the constitution quite a lot recently due to events, and I've found that it has been outpaced by the current system used by Moderation today.

    The Constitution makes frequent references to Moderation Warnings, which are no longer used by Moderation. Moderation now only use notes and infractions, making a clear distinction between the two. Therefore, I'd like to consult the Citizenry to see how it would like it applied in the Constitution, before making an amendment to change the wording to something that actually fits with the current standard used.

    This is seen in the Regulations and Procedures to Section II

    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrets54 View Post

    Regulations and Procedures to Section II

    [...]

    Applicants for Curial offices must meet the minimum requirements of the position:

    • Consul - citizenship for at least three months; cannot have received a Curial or Moderation Warning for at least one month
    • Censor - citizenship for at least one month; cannot have received a Curial Warning for at least one month and must not have any active moderation warnings
    • Primus Praefect - citizenship for at least three months; cannot have received a Curial or Moderation Warning for at least six months. Must have verifiable experience in staff moderation for three months, and/or Tribunal experience either as a Tribune or having served at least two terms as Magistrate.
    • Praefect - citizenship for at least three months; cannot have received a Curial or Moderation Warning for at least three months; must not be a current staff moderator or tribune.
    • Magistrate - citizenship for at least three months; cannot have received a Curial or Moderation Warning for at least six months; must not be a current staff moderator or tribune.


    [...]

    "Moderation Warning, here bolded, will either be replaced with note or infraction. Please voice your opinion below.
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    Gaius Baltar's Avatar Old gods die hard
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    Default Re: [Discussion] Moderation Warnings Regarding Eligibility for Curial Offices

    Support

    ​​
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    Default Re: [Discussion] Moderation Warnings Regarding Eligibility for Curial Offices

    Opposed.

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    Turkafinwë's Avatar The Sick Baby Jester
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    Default Re: [Discussion] Moderation Warnings Regarding Eligibility for Curial Offices

    So since Moderation Warnings are not used anymore anyone can apply for Curial Offices at this point, infractions or no? Or am I wrong about this? If it is the case why don't we keep it that way, nobody minded before so why would anyone care now all of the sudden. As long as people can keep their Citizen badge I'd find them worthy of holding a Curial office.

  5. #5

    Default Re: [Discussion] Moderation Warnings Regarding Eligibility for Curial Offices

    "Moderation Warnings" refer to infractions. If the language of the Constitution is to be changed, it should be changed to "Moderation Infraction".

    However, this provision1 from Section I, Article II, and this provision2 from Section III Article I, should be abolished.

    1
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Any Curial Officer receiving a Moderation or Curial warning is immediately removed from office.

    2
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    If a citizen receives an infraction the Consul suspends their citizenship until the infraction has expired or is revoked.
    Last edited by Cope; January 03, 2021 at 11:13 AM.



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    Gaius Baltar's Avatar Old gods die hard
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    Default Re: [Discussion] Moderation Warnings Regarding Eligibility for Curial Offices

    Quote Originally Posted by Cope View Post
    "Moderation Warnings" referred to infractions. If the language of the Constitution is to be changed, it should be changed to "Moderation Infraction".

    However, this provision1 from Section I, Article II, and this provision2 from Section III Article I, should be abolished.

    1
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Any Curial Officer receiving a Moderation or Curial warning is immediately removed from office.

    2
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    If a citizen receives an infraction the Consul suspends their citizenship until the infraction has expired or is revoked.
    I also agree with these ideas.

    However, I think the whole Constitution needs to be re-written into a more readable format. Remove the footnotes and incorporate all the information into the document and update the wording.

    ​​
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    Default Re: [Discussion] Moderation Warnings Regarding Eligibility for Curial Offices

    However, I think the whole Constitution needs to be re-written into a more readable format. Remove the footnotes and incorporate all the information into the document and update the wording.
    I've already done that.

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    Default Re: [Discussion] Moderation Warnings Regarding Eligibility for Curial Offices

    I'm ok with updating the terminology to a more correct "Moderation Infraction"
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    Default Re: [Discussion] Moderation Warnings Regarding Eligibility for Curial Offices

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicholas Rush View Post
    Support
    Quote Originally Posted by Akar View Post
    Opposed.
    To what? This is a discussion, hard to oppose anything here :p


    And aye, I too am in favour of going for infractions here.
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    Default Re: [Discussion] Moderation Warnings Regarding Eligibility for Curial Offices

    I think using Moderation Infraction can be misunderstood after we had a similiar discussion about the difference between a note and infraction last year in the Townhall.

    https://www.twcenter.net/forums/show...1#post15934839

    Also, read this.

    How about using ToS violations (added ToS just to make it clearer what it means), just to use the same wording as Tango had in that thread?
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    King Athelstan's Avatar The Wheel Weaves
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    Default Re: [Discussion] Moderation Warnings Regarding Eligibility for Curial Offices

    I believe the point is that a warning can be misunderstood, while an infraction/note cannot - In any moderation warning it is made explicitly clear whether it is an infraction or note. Using ToS violations would mean notes and infractions can cause removal from office, while this discussion is on where the line should be drawn - at notes or infractions.
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    Default Re: [Discussion] Moderation Warnings Regarding Eligibility for Curial Offices

    Perhaps the system should have a point trigger, much like the moderation standards for the whole site. Example, 5pts would lose you posting privileges in the Prothalamus, etc.
    Last edited by Gaius Baltar; January 06, 2021 at 08:29 AM. Reason: good stf

    ​​
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    Leonardo's Avatar Reborn Old Timer
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    Default Re: [Discussion] Moderation Warnings Regarding Eligibility for Curial Offices

    Quote Originally Posted by King Athelstan View Post
    I believe the point is that a warning can be misunderstood, while an infraction/note cannot - In any moderation warning it is made explicitly clear whether it is an infraction or note. Using ToS violations would mean notes and infractions can cause removal from office, while this discussion is on where the line should be drawn - at notes or infractions.
    What I bolded is the reason of why I think ToS violations should be used, just to use the same status the moderation have for a note or an infraction in the constitution.


    ToS violation
    • A note is a sort of a warning to the user about a ToS violation and if the user are doing the same violation or violating any rule within a period of time the user might be infracted
    • An infraction is a direct ToS violation without the user have been issued a note first
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    Default Re: [Discussion] Moderation Warnings Regarding Eligibility for Curial Offices

    Quote Originally Posted by Leonardo View Post
    What I bolded is the reason of why I think ToS violations should be used, just to use the same status the moderation have for a note or an infraction in the constitution.


    ToS violation
    • A note is a sort of a warning to the user about a ToS violation and if the user are doing the same violation or violating any rule within a period of time the user might be infracted
    • An infraction is a direct ToS violation without the user have been issued a note first
    Which means that both a note and an infraction is a ToS violation - I agree in that I like the wording of ToS violation better than a note, so that is an option to consider if we go for that over infractions.
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  15. #15
    Leonardo's Avatar Reborn Old Timer
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    Default Re: [Discussion] Moderation Warnings Regarding Eligibility for Curial Offices

    Let say we use - ToS Violation - in the constitution and there is an election to be held for one of the curial office positions.

    Now, in theory, a citizen gets a note and apply for a position without anyone else is interested, which had happen in the past and that can happen anytime. Should that happen then it's the consul's responsibility to check with the moderation if the appliant has been issued a note or not.

    Checking for infractions is less important, not saying needless, since a note is often issued via a PM from a moderator to the user while an infraction will always alert the Tribunal as soon the user decide to appeal in the Tribunal.
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    Default Re: [Discussion] Moderation Warnings Regarding Eligibility for Curial Offices

    I am not in favor in changing the standard as is. it has been fine for the entirety of the history of the site.

    I believe the Consul can make any changes such as this,... Warning to Infraction

    The Consul may correct any spelling, grammatical, or formative errors in the Constitution or any Curial resolution. The details of any such changes must be recorded in the Amendments thread of the Tabularium.
    Changing the wording to the new wording does not change the meaning or language of the Constitution.

  17. #17
    Leonardo's Avatar Reborn Old Timer
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    Default Re: [Discussion] Moderation Warnings Regarding Eligibility for Curial Offices

    Quote Originally Posted by PikeStance View Post
    Changing the wording to the new wording does not change the meaning or language of the Constitution.
    In this case I think you're wrong, because using warning will still cause confusing regarding note vs infraction when it comes to moderation.
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  18. #18

    Default Re: [Discussion] Moderation Warnings Regarding Eligibility for Curial Offices

    Quote Originally Posted by Leonardo View Post
    In this case I think you're wrong, because using warning will still cause confusing regarding note vs infraction when it comes to moderation.
    This was not my point. The Consul can change the word from "warning" to "infraction" since it doesn't change anything.

  19. #19
    Sir Adrian's Avatar the Imperishable
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    Default Re: [Discussion] Moderation Warnings Regarding Eligibility for Curial Offices

    It is my understanding that warming meant infraction in the days of long ago and that notes are basically yellow cards reminding you to cool it before you get infracted. The constitution should say Moderation Infraction.
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  20. #20

    Default Re: [Discussion] Moderation Warnings Regarding Eligibility for Curial Offices

    Yes,

    The ToS makes a clear distinction
    Notes
    Notes are given when the actions of a member require Moderation to officially contact them regarding a violation. They are a formal record of that contact and do not increase a member's Infraction Level in and of themselves, however further violations of the same type would lead to Infractions at Moderation's Discretion. They are recorded both to let other moderators know that the user has been informed of the particular rule, and to give the user a record of all contacts with moderators they have had.


    Infractions
    Infractions are given when a member commits an offense of a type for which they have already received a Note, or if the offense was deemed sufficiently great that Moderation do not consider a Note to be appropriate. Infractions expire after three months and contribute toward a member's Infraction Level. The number of points given for a particular offense is down to Moderation's Discretion. The possible values are given next to each offense type listed in the Member Conduct section.
    The Constitution is equally clear
    To be awarded with Citizenship a member must fulfill the minimum requirements and be proposed by a Citizen, their Patron. Minimum Requirements: At least fifty posts; been registered for at least two months, and; not received a Moderation Warning or Curial Warning within the past six months.
    Moderation Warning is what "Infraction" is now. There is, nor was there ever any ambiguity.
    The Consul only needs to change the word from "Warning" to "infraction." There is no point of discussion unless there is a proposal to increase the requirement to include notes which I would be oppose to. Such a rule would place an unfair burden on understanding the nuance in which the ToS may be enforce that differs from other sites. We have considered members with less than 6 months of registering to the site.

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