Family Trees - submod for v. 097

[Macaras]

Vinc, if you have some time and will, maybe you want to check the whole list, at least for the most violently incorrect names? The list is attached..

[Jurand of Cracow]

Vinc, if you have some time and will, maybe you want to check the whole list, at least for the most violently incorrect names? The list is attached..

But use Notepad++ or Wordpad, not the Notepad included in Windows.

[VINC.XXIII]

Vinc, if you have some time and will, maybe you want to check the whole list, at least for the most violently incorrect names? The list is attached..

Sure, but I don't have a computer with me so I cannot edit it directly.

To remove: Arnulf, Etienne, Baldwin, Odo, Philip, Jean. All these have proper equivalent already in the list(Odo is Eudes, Baldwin is Baudoin, Arnulf is Arnoul...etc). And Lox? I could be wrong but never heard such name, not sure about it.

To change: Tancred> Tancrede
Fulkes> Foulques
Lanfrank> Lanfranc
Alphonse> Auphons

Female to change: Clare> Claire
Ingeborg> Isambour

My suggestion would be to repeat Jehan, Charles, Phelippe, like Looys, because they were very popular.

Also add for males:
-Engorran
-Gauvain
-Guichard
-Perceval

The Gauvain and Perceval come from Chrestien de Troyes epic, arthurian names were somewhat trendy among nobility.

Engorran like: Engorran de Coucy(lord), Engorran de Marigny(Philip the Fair's jurist). Engorran was already used in carolingian times, under another form(Angalram) and it survived and evolved.

[Macaras]

Thank you Vinc!

[Macaras]

There is a new version available to download and test, no more factions with separate/hidden family trees !

https://www.twcenter.net/forums/show...1#post15980287

Please share the comments..

[Jurand of Cracow]

@Macaras - I'm looking into your files to merge them with the changes I've made between 097G and the current version. I'll drop you a line once I'm ready.

A few remarks:
- I'd not go for the inclusion of "Ingesdotter" in the list of the Russian names. It means that in the future somebody can get it (the engine takes the names at random). I'd solve the presence of a lady with that name in a different way, not using her last name, or using a Danish last name.
- similar issue with the otchestvo, like Vladimirovich. It's a son / daughter of Vladimir. Should'n not be in the list of the last names.
- does such coding work (I mean he's just born, the game will recognize him as the heir? what'd happen if his father dies within those 28 turns the young Henry comes of age?:
character_record Henry Plantagenet, male, age 0, alive, current_heir

@Macaras - I've intergrated your minimod in the working version of the mod (I mean 098 alpha). Don't work on your files, I'll contact you by PM what to do.

[Nemesis2345]

I have to say Macaras's minimod improved experience overall , HRE was playable once again without a sea of usurpers every turn.

GJ MACARAS!!!

[Macaras]

Jurnad, to answer your points:
1. Ingesdotter - I can easily just remove it,

2. Regarding Vladimirovich - there are other names like Sviatoslavich, Olgovich, Mstislavich, Yaroslavich.. I was reading a little about the Novgorodian leaders and these names appear frequently, example:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sviatoslav_Olgovich
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mstislav_I_of_Kiev

I understand that they come from the name of the father, however its similar for Danes or Norwegians - their last names are frequently like: Guddrodson, Gunnarsson, Haakonsson, Henriksson etc. (the son of..) and they are still valid last names?
The only way to change it, that I can think of, is to give them the last names like for example: Instead of Mstislav Vladimirovich -> Mstislav Kievskii (which would be like Mstislav of Kiev) and instead of the last names Olgovich -> Chernigovskii.

3.

- does such coding work (I mean he's just born, the game will recognize him as the heir? what'd happen if his father dies within those 28 turns the young Henry comes of age?: character_record Henry Plantagenet, male, age 0, alive, current_heir

- I tested it killing all the other family members and the engine just kept changing the heir, with Henry being the underage king. I will test it more by playing England as my next campaign though..

[Macaras]

I have to say Macaras's minimod improved experience overall , HRE was playable once again without a sea of usurpers every turn.

GJ MACARAS!!!

Thanks Nemesis, happy to hear that !

[Cephalophore]

@Macaras and VINC (thank you for the rep earlier, Vinc)
I am not sure if you are using names exactly as they occur in historical writings, but if you would like some names as I have found them I will drop them here.

Galician-Portuguese (Some other Iberian names):
Albardar Alvaro Rodriguiz Arnaldo Churruchão Clemenço Codorniz Cogominho Estevan Fagundo Gailhade Gonçalvez
Juião Lourenço Marçal Martĩiz Migueel Nicolao Orraca Pacheco Perez Pedro Rodrigo Queimado Salvador Sanchez Servando

you may find more here:
https://cantigas.fcsh.unl.pt/antroponimia.asp?ling=eng
http://glossa.gal/glosario/

Middle-English if you like digging through the selection:
https://quod.lib.umich.edu/c/cme/browse.html

If I would've known this undertaking was being done I would've taken more care to extract more as I have looked through just about every major medieval chronicle by now haha.

[Jurand of Cracow]

Jurnad, to answer your points:
1. Ingesdotter - I can easily just remove it,

2. Regarding Vladimirovich - there are other names like Sviatoslavich, Olgovich, Mstislavich, Yaroslavich.. I was reading a little about the Novgorodian leaders and these names appear frequently, example:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sviatoslav_Olgovich
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mstislav_I_of_Kiev

I understand that they come from the name of the father, however its similar for Danes or Norwegians - their last names are frequently like: Guddrodson, Gunnarsson, Haakonsson, Henriksson etc. (the son of..) and they are still valid last names?
The only way to change it, that I can think of, is to give them the last names like for example: Instead of Mstislav Vladimirovich -> Mstislav Kievskii (which would be like Mstislav of Kiev) and instead of the last names Olgovich -> Chernigovskii.

3.
- I tested it killing all the other family members and the engine just kept changing the heir, with Henry being the underage king. I will test it more by playing England as my next campaign though..

@Macaras - check your inbox here, on TWC (top right corner)
ad. 1,2 - just do it next time.
ad. 3 - very interesting: one can have an underage king...

[kostic]

@Macaras : I haven't taken the time to try your mini mod yet but it looks really good. Good initiative !!!

[Macaras]

Thanks, I am back after some busy days and vacations after, ready to continue working on new version..

[Jurand of Cracow]

@Macaras, in your submod (that I've already implemented for v. 098) you haven't modified file "descr_names_lookup.txt". Do you know what purpose does it serve?

[Macaras]

I used this tutorial: https://www.twcenter.net/forums/show...Names-in-M2-TW

And there is a comment to this file as following:

3.) descr_names_lookup.txt – This file is similar to names.txt in that it is one list with every name in the game organized alphabetically; one per line. What it's purpose is or should have been is unknown. I do know that, as far as I can tell, it is not used by the program. Don't bother modding this file as it's unnecessary; the game functions fine without it (thanks to SicilianVespers for pointing this out to me).

So whatever I modified I just left this file without any changes and the engine never complained..

[Belovèse]

Hey Macaras,
I'm testing playing without descr_names_lookup, so far the games launches OK. I'll report how it goes on the long run!

Some few other things that were pointed out by bovi's launcher, if you can please have a look:

descr_strat.txt 4929: Character relationship defined for character "werner von_habsburg" towards "ida von_hohenstaufen", but this related character does not exist.
descr_strat.txt 5405: Character relationship defined for character "stephen de_blois" towards "adela of_normandy", but this related character does not exist.
descr_strat.txt 5407: Character relationship defined for character "henry of_normandy", but this character does not exist.
descr_strat.txt 5408: Character relationship defined for character "geoffrey plantagenet" towards "matilda of_normandy", but this related character does not exist.
descr_strat.txt 5409: Character relationship defined for character "robert of_normandy", but this character does not exist.

[Macaras]

Thanks, I didn't realize that I made these mistakes. I just checked it right now, so the problem was that the last name declared was different than used in the "relative" section. The whole thing worked because of receiving the right name from the father. Anyway here is the fix:

1. I am posting whole section, what I changed was the last name from von_Hamburg to von_Hohenstaufen:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

character_record        Heinrich von_Hohenstaufen,     male, age 40, dead 76, never_a_leader
character_record        Agnes de_Poitou,     female, age 52, dead 55, never_a_leader
character_record        HeinrichA von_Hohenstaufen,     male, age 56, dead 26, never_a_leader
character_record        Beatrix von_Hohenstaufen,    female, age 66, dead 22, never_a_leader
character_record        Welf Welf, male, age 69, dead 31, never_a_leader
character_record        Wulfhild von_Sachsen,    female,    age 54, dead 6, never_a_leader
character_record        Heinrich Welf, male, age 51, dead 6, never_a_leader
character_record        Judith Welf,     female, age 32, alive, never_a_leader
character_record        Bertha von_Savoyen, female, age 71, dead 9, never_a_leader
character_record        Agnes von_Hohenstaufen, female, age 59, dead 1, never_a_leader
character_record        FriedrichA von_Hohenstaufen, male, age 55, dead 31, never_a_leader
character_record        Konrad von_Hohenstaufen, male, age 27, dead 31, never_a_leader
character_record        HeinrichB von_Hohenstaufen, male, age 44, dead 7, never_a_leader
character_record        Ida von_Hohenstaufen, female, age 25, alive, never_a_leader
character_record        Matilde von_Hohenstaufen, female, age 30, alive, never_a_leader
character_record        Richenza von_Hohenstaufen, female, age 17, alive, never_a_leader
character_record        Judith von_Bayern,     female, age 30, dead 2, never_a_leader
character_record        FriedrichC von_Hohenstaufen, male, age 11, alive, never_a_leader
character_record        Bertha von_Hohenstaufen, female, age 9, alive, never_a_leader

relative     Heinrich von_Hohenstaufen, Agnes de_Poitou,    Beatrix von_Hohenstaufen,    HeinrichA von_Hohenstaufen,    end
relative    Welf Welf,    Beatrix von_Hohenstaufen,    Heinrich Welf,    end
relative    Heinrich Welf,    Wulfhild von_Sachsen,    Judith Welf,    HeinrichD Welf,    Welf von_Schwaben,    end
relative    HeinrichA von_Hohenstaufen, Bertha von_Savoyen,    Agnes von_Hohenstaufen,    HeinrichB von_Hohenstaufen,    Konrad von_Hohenstaufen,    Ida von_Hohenstaufen,    end
relative    FriedrichA von_Hohenstaufen, Agnes von_Hohenstaufen,    FriedrichB von_Hohenstaufen,    KonradA von_Hohenstaufen,    end
relative    FriedrichB von_Hohenstaufen,    Judith von_Bayern,    FriedrichC von_Hohenstaufen,    Bertha von_Hohenstaufen,    end    
relative    HeinrichB von_Hohenstaufen,    Matilde von_Hohenstaufen,    Richenza von_Hohenstaufen,    end
relative    Lothar von_Supplinburg, Richenza von_Hohenstaufen,    end
relative    Werner von_Habsburg,    Ida von_Hohenstaufen,    end

2,3,4,5. I had to change a lot, so here is the whole section (of_Normandy instead of Beauclerc and Curthose and other things), starting from the first character and finishing with the end of english section:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

character    Henry of_Normandy, named character, male, leader, battle_model king_general, age 64, x 85, y 202 
traits Factionleader 3 , LogisticalSkill 1 , MilitaryInclination 1 , Western_Edu 1, GoodCommander 2 , StrategyChivalry 1, GoodAdministrator 2 , HaveChilds 1 , Fertile 1 , FathersLegacy 1 , ReligionStarter 1 , Royal_Blood_English 1 , KingsAuthority 4
army
unit        NE Bodyguard                exp 2 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
unit        Norman Cavalry                exp 2 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
unit        Dismounted Norman Cavalry    exp 2 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
unit        Spear Militia                exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
unit        Spear Militia                exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
unit        Peasant Archers                exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0

character    Robert of_Gloucester, named character, male, age 42, x 70, y 235 
traits LoyaltyStarter 1 , NaturalMilitarySkill 1 , Western_Edu 1 , MilitaryInclination 1 , GoodCommander 2 , ReligionStarter 1, BattleDread 1 , ReligiousActivity 1 
army
unit        NE Bodyguard                exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
unit        Norman Cavalry                exp 2 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
unit        Fyrd Spearmen                exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
unit        Fyrd Spearmen                exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
unit        Spear Militia                exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
unit        Peasant Archers                exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0

character    Reginald of_Cornwall, named character, male, age 34, x 58, y 215 
traits LoyaltyStarter 1 , NaturalMilitarySkill 1 , GovernorInclination 1 , Western_Edu 2 , GoodCommander 1 , InspiringSpeaker 1 , ReligionStarter 1 
army
unit        NE Bodyguard                exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
unit        Dismounted Norman Cavalry    exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
unit        Fyrd Spearmen                exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
unit        Fyrd Spearmen                exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
unit        Peasant Archers                exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0

; LONDON
character    Stephen de_Blois, named character, male, battle_model heir_general, age 40, x 77, y 216 
traits LoyaltyStarter 1 , ReligionStarter 1 , GovernorInclination 1 , Western_Edu 2 , HaveChilds 1 , StrategyDread 3 , Royal_Blood_English 1 , Usurper 2 , WeakClaimant 1
ancillaries harsh_judge
army
unit        NE Bodyguard                exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
unit        Norman Cavalry                exp 2 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
unit        Dismounted Norman Cavalry    exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
unit        Fyrd Spearmen                exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
unit        Spear Militia                exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
unit        Peasant Archers                exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0

character    Robert, general, male, age 20, x 74, y 228 
army
unit        Dismounted Norman Cavalry    exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
unit        Fyrd Spearmen                exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
unit        Fyrd Spearmen                exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0

character    Robert of_Normandy, named character, male, age 78, x 87, y 224 
traits LoyaltyStarter 1 , NaturalMilitarySkill 1 , MilitaryInclination 1 , FathersLegacy 1 , DiscontentGeneral 1 , Royal_Blood_English 1 , ReligionStarter 1 , CrusaderHistory 1 , ReligiousActivity 1
army
unit        NE Bodyguard                exp 2 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
unit        Fyrd Spearmen                exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
unit        Fyrd Spearmen                exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
unit        Spear Militia                exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
unit        Peasant Archers                exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0

character    Geoffrey Plantagenet, named character, male, age 19, x 73, y 187 
traits LoyaltyStarter 1 , NaturalMilitarySkill 1 , LogisticalSkill 2 , Western_Edu 1 , GoodCommander 1 , WifeIsEnglish 1 , MarriedAPrincess 1 , ReligionStarter 1 , MilitaryInclination 1 , WifeIsFactionHeir 2 
army
unit        NE Bodyguard                exp 2 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
unit        Norman Cavalry                exp 2 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
unit        Fyrd Spearmen                exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
unit        Fyrd Spearmen                exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
unit        Peasant Archers                exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0

character    Giles, admiral, male, age 20, x 84, y 209 
army
unit        cog                    exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0

character    Lewes, admiral, male, age 25, x 74, y 204 
army
unit        cog                    exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0

character    Richard, spy, male, age 20, x 77, y 230 
traits NaturalSpySkill 1 , GoodSpy 1 

character    Humphrey, spy, male, age 20, x 86, y 202 
traits NaturalSpySkill 2 , GoodSpy 1 

character    Samuel Blacke, merchant, male, age 25, x 129, y 203
traits NaturalMerchantSkill 1 , GoodMerchant 1 

character    Laurence Cranmer, diplomat, male, age 29, x 75, y 218 
traits NaturalDiplomatSkill 1 , GoodDiplomat 1 

character    Anselm of_Canterbury, priest, male, age 40, x 61, y 224 
traits NaturalPriestSkill 3 , StrongFaith 2 , Dogmatic 1 , PriestLevel 1 

character_record        William of_Normandy,     male, age 90, dead 45, never_a_leader
character_record        Matilda,     female, age 90, dead 10, never_a_leader
character_record        Rufus,     male, age 76, dead 32, never_a_leader
character_record        Adela of_Normandy,     female, age 69, dead 1, never_a_leader
character_record        Adelicia,     female, age 53, dead 1, never_a_leader
character_record        Henry de_Blois,     male, age 87, dead 30, never_a_leader
character_record        Matilda of_Normandy,     female, age 30, alive, never_a_leader
character_record        Matilda de_Boulogne,     female, age 27, alive, never_a_leader
character_record        Baldwin,     male, age 6, alive, never_a_leader
character_record        Eustace,     male, age 2, alive, never_a_leader
character_record        William Clinton,     male, age 25, dead 4, never_a_leader
character_record        Sybil,     female, age 55, dead 29, never_a_leader
character_record        William Curthose,     male, age 31, dead 12, never_a_leader
character_record        Henry Plantagenet, male, age 0, alive, current_heir


relative     William of_Normandy,    Matilda,    Robert of_Normandy,    Rufus,    Adela of_Normandy,    Henry of_Normandy,    end
relative     Henry de_Blois,    Adela of_Normandy,    Stephen de_Blois,    end
relative     Stephen de_Blois,    Matilda de_Boulogne,    Baldwin,    Eustace,    end
relative     Henry of_Normandy,    Adelicia,    William Curthose,    Matilda of_Normandy,    end
relative     Geoffrey Plantagenet,    Matilda of_Normandy,    Henry Plantagenet,    end
relative     Robert of_Normandy,    Sybil,    William Clinton,    end

I hope is going to work..

[Belovèse]

Thanks Macaras, I'm sure it's going to work, could you send me your file instead and I'll merge it with winmerge?

Don't worry about those errors, it is normal to make them sometimes, that's why I'm testing bovi's checker. Have a look here, I'm sure it'll be helpfull for you too, and feel free to ask me if you don't fully understand how too use it.

[removeduser_28376423423]

Interesting, I just wasn't aware there were mechanical differences between generals and family members.

I had an idea, what if the traits would distinguish between "royalty" (royal blood trait), "major nobles" (the rest of provincial titles owners) and "minor nobles" (these would be just prominent knights, think men like Spanish El Cid)?
I saw there's already a trait for characters getting into the family (I think it is "New aristocrat"). My idea would be now that minor nobles would be the recruitable generals (recruitable from the start! But with very low availability), the major ones the average governors/army commanders, and the royals very few ones with noticeable important traits (the current royal blood one, perhaps a bit adjusted in comparison to the other two), and only the latter two would add children into the family tree, this way we could keep track of local families alongside the royal line (and mix them if the player wants, so quite like what Macaras is already achieving, minus the traits) meanwhile the minor nobles would still be considered as having children, but of course since they don't own large fiefdoms it wouldn't matter they're not kept track of. (But then they themselves could probably be adopted by achieving heroic victories).

Furthermore, the traits could be used to simulate some lite feudal system; I've found money is currently quite available, so the settlement income could be reduced, and the traits would give +tax and +law. Also, since they're already adults, the recruitable generals should perhaps be militarily minded and have soldier training trait.

(On the concept of simulating feudalism ingame, I think the sort of thing I'm suggesting or something similar would match very nicely with the aim of current changes such as the new recruitment of knights, 1 turn without cost).

I think this way you could have the three types of characters referred in this thread well distinguished, no shortage of governors, keep the royal family going (with good management), the overview of all the Kingdom's lords well displayed in the family tree panel, and a reason to care about everybody's location.

[Belovèse]

It is really an interesting idea, I don't know this part of the game engine well, but a problem I see is that adoption proposals, marriage proposals and child births are managed by the game without any possibility to mod it.
But maybe someone with more knowledge will think of something?