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Thread: Tsardoms Total War - Campaign Feedback, Bugs and Reports

  1. #941
    Hrobatos's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Tsardoms Total War - Campaign Feedback, Bugs and Reports

    Like alredy said above without these scripts Ottomans are blocked in Anatolia

  2. #942
    Semisalis
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    Default Re: Tsardoms Total War - Campaign Feedback, Bugs and Reports

    I very much like the idea of fleets being able to raid a port upon blockading, but I see that it is possible to exploit this greatly for free money. By blockading a port, moving one tile and blockading that same port again, you can accumulate more and more and more money in a single turn. The more boats you have, the more free money they can gather. Is there a way to limit this to 1 time per port per turn?

  3. #943
    Wallachian's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: Tsardoms Total War - Campaign Feedback, Bugs and Reports

    Indeed, the player can fully abuse this fleet raiding. But the AI does not do that. So basically the player should not do that if they want to play fair. Sadly, it's very difficult to limit this. We either remove the feature completely or we leave it as it is. And I think it's a lovely feature to have.

    Also, in regards to the Ottoman behaviour hopefully that will be a lot better in the next version.

    @Runner. Your idea is nice. However, this involves quite a fair bit of work. And the whole point of the script is to help the Ottomans gain a foothold in Europe. We need to give them settlements in Europe. Otherwise they just send their armies back in Anatolia.

    @Antiokhos. Indeed, this whole issue could be solved by people playing the Free Campaign which has no scripts. However, at the moment that campaign is not working as the menu for it is broken. We need someone to help us fix the menu as it involves a lot of work. hopefully Kanteljic can help us with that when he has time in the future.

  4. #944
    Semisalis
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    Default Re: Tsardoms Total War - Campaign Feedback, Bugs and Reports

    I noticed a small issue with the Ducal Guard halberds, the cap on top is not attached to the shaft.

    There's one thing that I've wondered about. All charge cavalry seem to have one of three charge values: 11, 15, or 17. How is each value determined? Is it light lances, medium lances, heavy lances? Some of the charge bonus values seem odd to me. All of the heavy islamic cavalry has 11 charge. The super-heavy Roman Paramonai have only 11 charge - at 19 armor, you'd think that just the mass of their impact would give them a higher charge. Then we have the very light Viglai Hippeis with 15 charge and no armor. Meanwhile, Christian Knights all have 17 charge. I am curious as to what the thought process is behind assigning charge bonus to various cavalry units.

  5. #945
    jurcek1987's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Tsardoms Total War - Campaign Feedback, Bugs and Reports

    Thanks, though I guess you could find many such issues in various units. Nobody is perfect

    We are using Point Blank's Real Combat for unit stats. You may be familiar with it if you played SS or even TATW.
    https://www.twcenter.net/forums/foru...timate-Edition

    Both tpye of lances, and the type of cavalry play a part, whether they're lancers, chargers or brawlers. All western heavy cavalries are lancer type (they get +4 charge bonus), couched lance 13 + lancer 4 = 17. I think Paramonai and some other eastern cavalry should actually have medium not light lances, so 13 instead of 11. But they don't get +4 charge bonus cos they don't fight in the same style, as western lancers

    I see the unit sizes in your pic are a bit bigger. Also you might be happy to know, in the next version you'll have a yes/no choice event at the start if you want to play with garrison scripts and the Ottoman expansion into Europe scripts. Same as you can choose whether you wish to play with the great plague
    Last edited by jurcek1987; January 27, 2022 at 03:57 PM.

  6. #946
    Semisalis
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    Default Re: Tsardoms Total War - Campaign Feedback, Bugs and Reports

    I see, the charge bonus on units looked standardized. I haven't played SS and it's been years since TATW for me.

    Maybe I'm misunderstanding what charge bonus is mean to represent, but I always thought of it as the shock effect from impact. Besides the lance and fighting style, the weight and mass of the thing that's making the impact will affect the shock value of that impact. A horse is heavier and more massive than a man, thus cavalry has higher charge than infantry. Putting 19 points of armor onto the horse seems as if it should lead to a greater shock effect than light lancers with little to no armor. Put Paramonai and Viglai Hippeis next to each other - it's hard for me to understand how the latter has greater charge than the former. (but I love Viglai's don't take this as an argument to bring down their charge)

    I like big battles and I cannot lie, I did change the unit sizes. All infantry to 200 men, infantry that were already at 200 went to 225, all cavalry to 100.

    This is a nice thing with the scripts, I didn't like the Gallipoli script breaking my alliance as the Aydinids but I did deal with it. Unfortunately it lead to my blowing up the Ottomans even earlier than normal which I believe is the opposite of its intention.

  7. #947
    jurcek1987's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Tsardoms Total War - Campaign Feedback, Bugs and Reports

    Mass does play a part too yes (the mass values are listed in descr_mounts) but not with the charge value. That's mostly down to the type of cavalry. Western knights go without saying, they've been fighting with couched lance at full gallop technique since the Normans started this in 11th century. Light cavalries that fight like Hussars, with devastating hit-and-run attacks are also "lancers" in this mod. Viglai Hippies are like poor mans Hussars that's why they also have a very good charge. Eastern cavalries generally don't fight the same way but they're better in melee.

    Now the unit sizes, well those are very important for unit balance. So instead of like you did, like giving all cavalry units 100 men, I'd suggest you increase the numbers consistently, say 1.5x the original size of each unit to maintain the delicate unit balance. No wonder the Ottomans perform so poor in your game, they have larger than average unit sizes.

  8. #948
    Semisalis
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    Default Re: Tsardoms Total War - Campaign Feedback, Bugs and Reports

    Okay all of that makes much sense. I've been away from M2TW for some time so I wasn't sure how mass factors in.

    Regarding unit sizes, the first two campaigns I played were Romans and Golden Horde, I played each as intended, so 2TPY and default unit sizes, to get an understanding and feel for the mod. After increasing unit sizes, I noticed no difference with either Ottoman autoresolve power or their expansion. Default unit sizes or not they still get stuck on garrison scripted settlements. In my Roman game, I watched a massive Jihad on Tarnovograd by all 4 islamic factions fail because the garrison script army in the city beat them all back. Regardless of unit size, the garrison scripts are very oppressive to AI expansion. The M2 AI seems to have this habit of only sending exactly as many troops as it thinks to needs to win a battle, and the garrison scripts defeat the armies they send easily. I wish there was a way to make the AI actually apply overwhelming force against each other, they only seem to do this to the player.

    edit: I'd like to note that the garrison scripts crippling AI expansion is not a uniquely Ottoman or islamic issue, though the vast number of rebel settlements near those factions makes this affect them more. However, it also hurts Catholics as well. The Pope hates Venice in this mod, and calls crusades against them frequently. Here, the Pope called a crusade on Venexia and the entire catholic world united against them. But, even with all those Crusades, none of them can take Venexia. The garrison script army in the city has destroyed half a dozen stacks already and is still healthy. And this is on 2TPY/default unit sizes.
    Last edited by Artannis Wolfrunner; January 27, 2022 at 06:32 PM.

  9. #949
    Wallachian's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: Tsardoms Total War - Campaign Feedback, Bugs and Reports

    The Venice situation is kind of intended. We want capitals to be almost impossible to conquer to ensure small factions survive.

    We want to remove crusades but we don't know how to do it without getting rid of the Papal States as a special faction
    Last edited by Wallachian; January 27, 2022 at 07:29 PM.

  10. #950
    jurcek1987's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Tsardoms Total War - Campaign Feedback, Bugs and Reports

    Those crusades and jihads didn't fail because of garrison scripts. The script only activates once and the cooldown is 12 turns. They failed because the armies just sat around settlements and only rarely attacked until eventually the crusade or jihad got cancelled, I've seen it happened.

  11. #951
    Semisalis
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    Default Re: Tsardoms Total War - Campaign Feedback, Bugs and Reports

    Watching what was going on around Venexia, I do believe those armies would have taken Venice were it not for the garrison. You can see there are several depleted and nearly destroyed crusades there, they did attack the city but since Venice is connected to land by just 1 bridge and can only bring one army to bear at a time, and since the garrison script armies are well optimized and powerful, and defending armies seem to have an autoresolve bias in sieges, the crusading armies keep failing their assaults. Sometimes they will siege Venice for a few turns then assault and fail, and after a few attempts the garrison refreshes and it starts again.

    No doubt though that the AI in M2 is very odd, a Jihad was called on Tarnovgrad again in my current game. The Golden Horde, Ottomans, and Karamanids all answered. However, all three factions made peace with Bulgaria before their jihads arrived, and now they idle around Tarnovgrad looking for something to do. The AI needs some serious help taking settlements so I certainly understand the need for the Gallipoli scipt, even if I dislike the way the script plays out when I own the settlement. Speaking of the Gallipoli script, that battle seems to play out very...unsatisfying. I made a save to play it out multiple times and every time the Ottoman army runs for the auto-generated wall breach and stuffs their entire army through it, rushing through to reach the center capture point while ignoring all my units along the way. Got some shellshock of the Rome 2 AI at release. I do understand a script like this but so much of how to plays out feels wrong.

    I don't want to circle back to what I was saying a day or two ago as that discussion has been had. I think the end of it is that over-use of garrison scripts is debilitating to AI expansion especially in Asia Minor, but you are already aware of this. It's painful watching the Karamanid AI needing to put 3 stacks on a rebel settlement to take it, and they still fail sometimes. Finally I do like having Crusades, they have the potential to add a lot of excitement especially for Islamic factions stuck on the eastern edge of the map far from the action. It would be nice however if the Pope could be made to actually declare them against Islamic factions and not his fellow men of God. Across my campaigns, every Crusade I've seen declared was on Venice or Naples.

  12. #952

    Default Re: Tsardoms Total War - Campaign Feedback, Bugs and Reports

    Quote Originally Posted by jurcek1987 View Post
    Also you might be happy to know, in the next version you'll have a yes/no choice event at the start if you want to play with garrison scripts and the Ottoman expansion into Europe scripts. Same as you can choose whether you wish to play with the great plague

    Thank you very much!!!


    it's so great to know that we'll have these new yes/no choices events at the start.


    this mod is becoming better and better.


    thank you all for your effort and the kindness to really listen to the voices of the fans


    looking forward to the new version of this Masterpiece!


    really love Tsardoms Total War and this Great Team

  13. #953

    Default Re: Tsardoms Total War - Campaign Feedback, Bugs and Reports

    Quote Originally Posted by Artannis Wolfrunner View Post
    Watching what was going on around Venexia, I do believe those armies would have taken Venice were it not for the garrison. You can see there are several depleted and nearly destroyed crusades there, they did attack the city but since Venice is connected to land by just 1 bridge and can only bring one army to bear at a time, and since the garrison script armies are well optimized and powerful, and defending armies seem to have an autoresolve bias in sieges, the crusading armies keep failing their assaults. Sometimes they will siege Venice for a few turns then assault and fail, and after a few attempts the garrison refreshes and it starts again.



    now, the counter of the garrison scripts has a cooldown of 12 turns.


    if we increase the number of cooldown turns, the refresh rate of the troops will be lower,
    will it help to improve the situation of the AI to attack a Slave faction's town?


    in order to maintain the game balance, we can still keep the important capital city to be more difficult to be captured than a slave town.


    for example, set the cooldown to 20 turns for a normal town of Slave faction,
    and set the cooldown to 15 turns for the important capital city, etc
    Last edited by Runner; January 28, 2022 at 09:58 AM.

  14. #954

    Default Re: Tsardoms Total War - Campaign Feedback, Bugs and Reports

    .
    Last edited by Runner; January 28, 2022 at 10:57 AM.

  15. #955

    Default Re: Tsardoms Total War - Campaign Feedback, Bugs and Reports

    Quote Originally Posted by Artannis Wolfrunner View Post

    No doubt though that the AI in M2 is very odd, a Jihad was called on Tarnovgrad again in my current game. The Golden Horde, Ottomans, and Karamanids all answered. However, all three factions made peace with Bulgaria before their jihads arrived, and now they idle around Tarnovgrad looking for something to do.
    in order to improve the Campaign AI in this situation, we may tune a few code in the "descr_campaign_ai_db.xml" file.


    after replacing the following codes, the factions joining Jihad or Crusade will be less often to offer or accept peace before they reach the target


    (less often, but still possible to make peace at last)

    ======================================

    Step 1a : find out the following codes in the "descr_campaign_ai_db.xml" file :

    ======================================

    <decision_entry>
    <!--
    ignore those who are not our neighbour
    -->
    <min_entry num_settlements = "1"/>
    <max_entry is_neighbour = "false"/>
    <faction_attitude defense = "defend_minimal" pts_alliance = "-999" want_ally = "false" want_peace = "true"/>
    </decision_entry>

    <decision_entry>
    <!--
    neutral neighbour and at war
    -->
    <min_entry num_enemies = "1" num_settlements = "1" is_neighbour = "true" target_faction_standing = "-0.1"/>
    <max_entry Stance = "Neutral" trusted_ally_enemy = "false"/>
    <faction_attitude defense = "defend_minimal" want_ally = "true" want_peace = "true"/>
    </decision_entry>

    <decision_entry>
    <!--
    if not our neighbour, and we have any settlements, and we are at war, and they are not a trusted allies enemy, use defaults + want peace
    -->
    <min_entry num_settlements = "1" stance = "AtWar"/>
    <max_entry is_neighbour = "false" trusted_ally_enemy = "false"/>
    <faction_attitude defense = "defend_minimal" want_peace = "true"/>
    </decision_entry>

    ===============================================

    Step 1b : copy and paste to replace by these new codes :

    ===============================================

    <decision_entry>
    <!--
    ignore those who are not our neighbour
    -->
    <min_entry num_settlements = "1"/>
    <max_entry is_neighbour = "false"/>
    <faction_attitude defense = "defend_minimal" pts_alliance = "-999" want_ally = "false" continue="true"/>
    </decision_entry>

    <decision_entry>
    <!--
    neutral neighbour and at war
    -->
    <min_entry num_enemies = "1" num_settlements = "1" is_neighbour = "true" target_faction_standing = "-0.1"/>
    <max_entry Stance = "Neutral" trusted_ally_enemy = "false"/>
    <faction_attitude defense = "defend_minimal" want_peace = "true"/>
    </decision_entry>

    <decision_entry>
    <!--
    if not our neighbour, and we have any settlements, and we are at war, and they are not a trusted allies enemy, use defaults + want peace
    -->
    <min_entry num_settlements = "1" stance = "AtWar" num_enemies="2"/>
    <max_entry is_neighbour = "false" trusted_ally_enemy = "false" rand="0.15"/>
    <faction_attitude defense = "defend_normal" want_peace = "true"/>
    </decision_entry>

    ===============================================

    Step 2a : find out the following codes in the "descr_campaign_ai_db.xml" file :

    ===============================================


    <decision_entry>
    <!--
    ceasefire = signed * invade none and false * 20% chance over 20 turns to ignore this decision
    -->
    <min_entry stance = "Neutral" num_turns_ceasfire = "0"/>
    <max_entry stance = "Neutral" num_turns_ceasfire = "20" rand = ".99"/>
    <faction_attitude can_force_invade = "false" invade = "invade_none"/>
    </decision_entry>

    ===============================================

    Step 2b : copy and paste to replace by these new codes :

    ===============================================

    <decision_entry>
    <!--
    ceasefire = signed * invade none over 10 turns, decrease chance gradually
    but still allow AI to attack in Jihad or Crusade after making peace for 2 turns
    -->
    <min_entry stance = "Neutral" num_turns_ceasfire = "0"/>
    <max_entry stance = "Neutral" num_turns_ceasfire = "2" rand = ".99"/>
    <faction_attitude can_force_invade = "false" invade = "invade_none"/>
    </decision_entry>

    <decision_entry>
    <min_entry stance = "Neutral" num_turns_ceasfire = "3"/>
    <max_entry stance = "Neutral" num_turns_ceasfire = "4" rand = ".95"/>
    <faction_attitude invade = "invade_none"/>
    </decision_entry>

    <decision_entry>
    <min_entry stance = "Neutral" num_turns_ceasfire = "5"/>
    <max_entry stance = "Neutral" num_turns_ceasfire = "6" rand = ".85"/>
    <faction_attitude invade = "invade_none"/>
    </decision_entry>

    <decision_entry>
    <min_entry stance = "Neutral" num_turns_ceasfire = "7"/>
    <max_entry stance = "Neutral" num_turns_ceasfire = "8" rand = ".7"/>
    <faction_attitude invade = "invade_none"/>
    </decision_entry>

    <decision_entry>
    <min_entry stance = "Neutral" num_turns_ceasfire = "9"/>
    <max_entry stance = "Neutral" num_turns_ceasfire = "10" rand = ".5"/>
    <faction_attitude invade = "invade_none"/>
    </decision_entry>

    <decision_entry>
    <min_entry stance = "Neutral" num_turns_ceasfire = "11"/>
    <max_entry stance = "Neutral" num_turns_ceasfire = "12" rand = ".25"/>
    <faction_attitude invade = "invade_none"/>
    </decision_entry>

    ===============================================
    Last edited by Runner; January 28, 2022 at 12:51 PM.

  16. #956
    Antiokhos Euergetes's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Tsardoms Total War - Campaign Feedback, Bugs and Reports

    Wow and where would one insert that, so to speak and of course there's the upcoming new version

  17. #957
    Semisalis
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    Default Re: Tsardoms Total War - Campaign Feedback, Bugs and Reports

    That looks like a very good change and easy to edit, though I don't plan on starting a new campaign now with a new version nearby.

    @Runner have you made these changes in your game and seen their effects? It would be especially good if it made the AI more aggressive and less likely to seek peace overall, not just in Jihads. The AI quits its wars with each other far too easily.

    One thing I wonder, is it 1 garrison script that is applied to both rebel cities and faction capitals, or are they seperate scripts? The refresh only seems to impact the campaign on faction capitals, since rebels don't produce units like a faction can to recover after a siege. I don't know if it's possible, but what if the rebel garrison scripts only activated if a player sieges the settlement but not the AI? Or difficulty dependent, where Very Hard campaign has no rebel garrison scripts for the AI. Again, not sure if possible.

  18. #958

    Default Re: Tsardoms Total War - Campaign Feedback, Bugs and Reports

    Quote Originally Posted by Artannis Wolfrunner View Post

    Watching what was going on around Venexia, I do believe those armies would have taken Venice were it not for the garrison. You can see there are several depleted and nearly destroyed crusades there, they did attack the city but since Venice is connected to land by just 1 bridge and can only bring one army to bear at a time, and since the garrison script armies are well optimized and powerful, and defending armies seem to have an autoresolve bias in sieges, the crusading armies keep failing their assaults. Sometimes they will siege Venice for a few turns then assault and fail, and after a few attempts the garrison refreshes and it starts again.
    after playing Tsordom Total War for a while, this mod makes me want to read more in order to understand the history in this period more.

    actually, in history, Venice was quite good in defending against the League consist of so many factions (France, Hungary, Holy Roman Empire, Florence, Spain, etc). the strategy of Venice was to fight one enemy at a time. although it lost some regions, Venice was still capable to survive at last.

    here is a video about this history:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PoY...AIiQJu&index=3
    Last edited by Runner; January 28, 2022 at 11:32 PM.

  19. #959
    Wallachian's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: Tsardoms Total War - Campaign Feedback, Bugs and Reports

    Quote Originally Posted by Artannis Wolfrunner View Post
    . I don't know if it's possible, but what if the rebel garrison scripts only activated if a player sieges the settlement but not the AI? Or difficulty dependent, where Very Hard campaign has no rebel garrison scripts for the AI. Again, not sure if possible.
    Sadly this is not possible. It would have been a perfect fix. But yes, the garrison script applies to everyone, both AI and player.

    Quote Originally Posted by Runner View Post
    after playing Tsordom Total War for a while, this mod makes me want to read more in order to understand the history in this period more.


    actually, in history, Venice was quite good in defending against the League consist of so many factions (France, Hungary, Holy Roman Empire, Florence, Spain, etc).

    here is a video about this history:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PoY...AIiQJu&index=3
    Mate you seem to have some nice text editing skills. Would you be interesting in helping out the team? We are pretty short handed and could use someone helping out with this sort of sutff.

    For example you could help us reduce the reputation hits with the pope for various misdemeanors in descr_faction_standing and descr_missions.

    There seems to be an issue with AI getting excommunicated and the Pope launching numerous crusades.
    Last edited by Wallachian; January 28, 2022 at 10:33 PM.

  20. #960

    Default Re: Tsardoms Total War - Campaign Feedback, Bugs and Reports

    Quote Originally Posted by Wallachian View Post

    the Pope launching numerous crusades.
    the following code may help to defer the AI to start a crusade or jihad from original 20 turns to 50 turns.

    however, it has to be tested if it can defer each new crusade, or just defer the 1st crusade.

    if it just defers the 1st crusade, it can still help the AI to develop more at the start.
    if it can defer each new crusade, it is just great!
    you may change the number as you see fit. (50 is just an example)

    if we really want to have NO crusade launched by AI, we can set the number to 9999.

    in the "descr_campaign_db.xml" file:

    ================================================
    Step 1 : find out the following codes in the "descr_campaign_db.xml" file :
    =================================================

    <crusade_called_start_turn uint="20"/>
    <jihad_called_start_turn uint="20"/>

    =================================================
    Step 2 : copy and paste to replace by these new codes :
    =================================================

    <crusade_called_start_turn int="50"/>
    <jihad_called_start_turn int="50"/>

    =================================================
    Last edited by Runner; January 29, 2022 at 01:30 AM.

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